Your worst game ever?
 

By "worst" game, I don't mean that you kept screwing up or made bad calls (which, we all know, never happens). I mean your worst experience with behavior of players and/or coaches and/or fans.

I'll start. I had a HS rec game (JV level) in which, after about 5 technicals had been called for unsportsmanlike conduct, I had to eject both head coaches after they got chest to chest and were pushing each other (one thought the other was running up the score), then also tossed one assistant coach for throwing his clipboard at one of his players, then tossed four players (one from each team) for fighting (this is when we called the game off) and then had two parents get in my face as I was leaving. They were accusing my partner and me of not "protecting" their kids. I told them that if they always wanted their kids to "be protected", they should keep them in plastic bubbles.

OK, let's hear the horror stories. FEEBLE games don't count because the teams always surrender too easily. :D

How does that work?

wreck league, he was probably doing two gyms at the same time.

They were really, really tall and each played two positions. :rolleyes:

It was two players from each team, although I had another game earlier that evening and tossed two players, one from each team. I think that eventually balances out.

Yup, 1.5 players per team per game.

1.5? Is that one of those metric decimal thingys? :eek:

No wonder he had so much trouble, it's tough enough to call one game at a time, but calling two simultaneously is an impossible task.

Carrying a pistol in that situation is totally understandable :D

Sorry, let me translate that into Oregonian for you:

3/2

Yup, might even want to take the bullet out of your shirt pocket and put it in your pants pocket just in case.

"Is that a 357 magnum in your pocket, or you just glad to see me."

Ok, this one's easy for me.

Once upon a time, I was in my third year of officiating, and a fellow official asked if I wanted to replace him in a girl's varsity game. I said, "Sure!", especially since I was experienced, having done one other varsity game earlier that season. I was excited because I knew I would be working with a good, veteran partner, and he would keep me out of too much trouble. Well, I get to the gym that evening to find out a few additional things: first, the home team was ranked 7th in the state, the visitors were ranked 10th, and both teams were tied for first in the conference. Second, the gym was packed with fans from both schools. Oh, yea, one other thing - my partner had to get off the game and I was working with a first-year official. So, all of a sudden I'm the senior member of the crew!

Needless to say, things didn't go all that well. (Understatement Alert!) For, example, the home coach threw a clipboard during the game in reaction to a call, but because neither of us actually saw him throw it, neither of us issued the T. I had what I thought was a good call on a home team player who drove the lane, released the shot, took one more step, and crashed into a defender. The foul was straight-forward, but the table didn't like the fact that I was awarding bonus FT's to the visitors. The scorekeeper even shook his head at me and told me it was a terrible call, as I was reporting. Of course, I just walked away. Later on, as I'm administering a FT to a player, someone in the crowd yells out, "So ref, is she giving you favors after the game for that call?!?" There were a few other incidents as well.

The home team finally loses by 12 or 14, and we limp back to the dressing room after the game. We stay there a long time, hoping the gym is cleared out. When we finally come out, there's still 4 or 5 people standing around, and as we walk past them, one of them says, "Are you guys from (the visiting team's town)?" We just say, "No" as we walk quicker to the front door. We're almost to the door, when we hear this lady running up behind us going, "Refs!, Oh, Refs!...". We stop, and wait for her to catch up. She looks at us and asks, "Are either of you guys married?" We look at each other and tell her no, so she says, "Cause I sure hope you f*** better than you ref!!", and turns around and walks away.

Well, I get out to my car, and just sit there for a while, trying to figure out if all this was worth it. I even got home and called my buddy who got me into officiating just to talk to him about it. A couple of things I learned: if you think you're ready for the next level, you probably aren't. Game management issues should not be ignored. And, no matter how hard tonight's game was, there's always the chance to do better at tomorrow night's game.

Oh, yea, the guy I worked with - I never saw him officiate another game.

I had one game where one player drove the baseline for a lay-up, got clotheslined on the way up, and came down with fists flying. A second pair of players took that as license to start into it, and we just decided to call the game. Actually, it was at a camp and the evals decided. I was paralyzed, having never seen this sort of thing before.

Then there was the game where the coach came out onto the floor and body-bumped me. Fortunately for him and me, I still had the whistle in my mouth so I just blew it right into his ear (chuck and rocky, remember that, the next time you are near a ref that's taller than you). He physically recoiled, and was then "rescued" by his assistant coach, and escorted off the premises by the tournament director. I heard later that he quit coaching. Thank goodness.

You stopped and waited... why???

She didn't appear mad at the time, and the tone of her voice wasn't angry or upset.

Lots of lessons were learned in just that one night.

'Cause he didn't know any better yet. :)

Visiting scorer didn't like my foul calls. Starting voicing his opinion while I was reporting. Properly took care of the situation by telling game management to have him removed. While he was being removed he was screaming how he was going to wait for me until after the game.

AAU 17:under Nationals all under 4 min. in the game and it's a 4-6 point game:

I call 5 or 6 T's on the same team (all on players except one which was on the assistant). End up calling the game with 10.8.

....math is hard...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/34/71...d0b7ff3ac5.jpg

Since Brad locked the thread about carrying a gun to games, here's the final word on the subject:

"I'll carry your books, I'll carry a torch, I'll carry a tune, I'll carry on, carry over, carry forward, Cary Grant, cash and carry, carry me back to Old Virginia, I'll even 'hari-kari' if you show me how, but I will not carry a gun." - Hawkeye Pierce

Yeah, Alan Alda's Hawkeye was clever...back in 197 whateverthatwas.

I prefer the original Donald Sutherland version. Happier, smarter and didn't take himself half as seriously.

Locking a thread is not an invitation to continue discussion in another thread :)

This doesn't even make any sense and isn't clever or funny at all. The correct line would have been something like, "If you are, I hope that you go home and f*** your wife as good as you f***ed us!" or something to that effect.

I probably would have laughed at her and asked her if she wanted to go get a drink :)

My worst experience is easy... Early on in my high school career -- like 3rd or 4th year... Varsity boys tournament. Team is losing by 20-30 and coach decides that it is my fault with like 2-3 minutes left in the game.

I make a call, report it, and go to administer the free throw when I hear something behind me. Look back and the coach's clipboard is all over the floor, papers everywhere... the coach is sitting down not saying a word. I look at my partner like "WTH???"

WHACK!!!

Coach stands up now and yells, "F***K YOU B**TCH!!!"

WHACK! GET OUT!!!

Now coach says nothing and comes out on the court to retrieve his clipboard -- doesn't say another word. I walk over to the table and ask them to have someone escort the coach off the court (no cops / security, of course!) when all of a sudden I head, "I'm going to kick your a$$!!!" and turn to see the assistant coach holding back the head coach who is now coming after me.

My partner comes over as the coach is yelling, "I'm going to wait in the parking lot and kick your a$$!!!" among other profanities.

My partner looks at the table and says, "Game over!" and we run off the court.

Ten minutes later in the locker room, still in a bit of a state of shock, the coach comes in an apologizes -- meek as can be.

To this day I still don't know what I did to pi$$ him off that much!

I agree; I wish I could say I couldn't remember what was said, but it is something I've never forgotten. It was apparently just her attempt at sarcastic humor.

Neither my partner or I saw anything funny about the whole night, and it was a good wake-up call about what game management is really about.

At this point, do you really care?

I have had this situation occur several times and couple of those times I didn't have the luxuary of a locked locker room like at a HS game. This is a big part of officiating, that is knowing how to handle yourself in situations like this, because they are bound to occur. The better you get at handling this and defusing it, if possible, the better official you will become. Your confidence will go thru the roof.

Game management, and this is not something you can learn from reading a rulebook. You can only get this from experienced. Expereinced will teach you to be on the lookout for these type of situations, to know that this is brewing underneath, to know the temperament of your game is a must, a key, because then you can react to it appropriately when it explodes. IOW's, you already know it's going to explode before it explodes.

Examining your situation, i had a similiar situation I would like to share. I had a coach throw a chair onto the floor after i made a call. I reported, turned to tell partner we're shooting one. A player on the court says hey, look at that, I turn around, there's a chair on the floor! Since, I didn't see who threw the chair or how it got there, I could not honestly give the coach a T. I asked my partner did he see it, he said no. So I just told them to pick the chair up, we shoot the FT and keep playing. Since, I did not have definite knowledge, I choose to do nothing. Was this the right thing to do? Blow-out game, feelings a bit strained, losing team not taking it very well, I call that T, I gotta toss somebody and all the other hoop-la that goes with it. This games over, no need in me delaying it by giving out a T. You can sit there and take your medicine just like i got to complete calling the rest of this blow-out game. Now, different story if I actually saw him do it. Game management or game screw-up? You tell me.

What's more important to you? Making the tough call when it needs to be made or managing the game to a normal completion? Two school of thoughts, only one correct answer, your answer. What would you do?

Now I see why you were mad. He thought you were a girl! :rolleyes:

It's a game screw-up made by a person who doesn't have the necessary requirements to be an official. Ignoring a chair thrown on the court is absolutely ridiculous imo. It simply shows a complete lack of gonads. And I don't believe for a minute that <b>ANY</b> crew of officials would <b>NOT</b> know how the chair got on the floor. That's called selective blindness to avoid having to take care of bidness. It sureasaheck ain't game management.

As someone who spent 7 years studying mathematics before finally deciding a PhD was too much effort, this never fails to make me laugh uproariously.

I'm sure it's true, it's true....

LOL ... no!

Not sure... only you can decide that, I guess, based on the situation.

For me, I didn't see the coach throw the clipboard, but it was pretty apparent to me that he was the one that did it. His response after the technical pretty much confirmed it! :)

All things being equal and even though I have calmed down from my quick-trigger days... I would probably have to WHACK! a coach for throwing a chair! If for nothing else, lack of originality!

Or a dog!

This, folks, is what's known as a false dichotomy. In actuality, these "two school of thoughts" (sic) are inextricably linked.

For those of you in Rio Linda, that means they can't be separated.

JR, I did not ignore the chair and it was not selective blindness. It might have been more selective enforcement in which I reason since I didn't see it, how can i call it. Who am I going to enforce the TF too? The bench? I suppose I could have done this but i didn't. It never ceases to amaze me how someone who was not there wants to tell you how to do your job. Maybe the job wasn't done perfectly by officiating standards but I did bring the game to a normal conclusion without having to eject anybody. That has it's merits too!

By not handling it, I handle it by making the coach sit there and take his beating. He also looked like a fool (immature) throwing the chair on the court and not being ejected. I maybe wrong here but i am trying to force myself to not call things I don't see. Don't guess, don't anticipate, just call what you see.

1) Wrong. I'm simply telling officials to completely ignore what you wrote. There was, and is, absolutely no merit to what you suggest. If you have to worry about ejecting somebody, then stick to rec leagues. Officiating at other levels is not for you, or for anyone else that would even dream about following your advice.

2) Wrong. By not handling it, you're telling the coach that he has <i>carte blanche</i> to do whatever the hell he feel likes. You're also telling the players and fans that you don't have the <i>cojones</i> to take care of bidness. You're the one who looked like a fool, not the coach.

I'm glad OS is back.

JR is gonna be too distracted to make any hair jokes.

In all fairness, Snaqs, our entire culture is based on false dichotomies. Everything in America is either/or. There's no gray area at all. How could you expect anything else from our dear friend?

Here's one you should like......
http://www.es-emb.com/Going%20Bald1.jpg

Enjoy quickly. Might not last long.:D

Geeze, now that's a pretty black & white statement.

Good response, Dan, considering that mature, subtle humor is never expected from you.

A comment on JR's note #2: I agree completely with him.
Three years ago during my first season, I passed on giving the coach a TF. I saw his action. He deserved one. I talked myself in to letting him slide because I didn't want to penalize his team with the outcome on the line. Boy, was I wrong on that one! I allowed his bad behavior to go unpunished. I haven't let that happen again. I had him once each the past seasons with no other outbreaks, but his action has been and will be included in my pregame. I just consider it another learning experience in officiating career.

Some(not all) coaches are like two year olds. They'll push you to see what they can get away with. And if they can get away with something, they ain't gonna stop. And, like some parents, there's a million excuses to be made also for allowing the two year old to get away with his nonsense without any discipline.

We aren't allowed to spank coaches anymore, but we can still make them go sit in a corner when they're bad.:D

I might have to disagree slightly - I think <B>both</B> looked bad.

Oh for the love of corporeal punishment! My mother had her tool. It was named "The Board of Education". She was not afraid to use it either. OUCH!

Yeah - but a girl dog!

I was merely pointing out the logical error of the question as posed. I make no judgment on whether or not it is to be expected from the party in question.

I was going to disagree with your assertion regarding American culture, however, on the basis of the moral relativism that seems so prevalent.

However, when one looks at the polarization of opinions and how people tend to view and treat those with differing view points, I tend to agree with you.

In the case of not seeing who actually threw the chair, the officials would certainly know from which bench that the chair came from - correct? Doesn't the rule book (I don't have it handy for reference) allow for a direct "T" on the bench and thereby an indirect on the head coach. What about that as a solution.
I saw an official "T" up the head coach because he heard an undesireable comment come from the bench area. It was a BV game, and I was observing after having worked the JV contest. The crew discussed it at the half. The calling official heard the remark, but he wasn't sure that the head coach said it. The head coach was the only one standing when he first looked in the direction of the bench. He had just made an OOB call that went against that team. They agreed that a T was needed, but you can't directly penalize the coach if you do not have specific knowledge. The coach was vehement that he did not make the comment - naturally.

Tony & Mick helped me with it.

I already stated that in my follow-on message after every post.

I disagree. Remember, I did not see him throw the chair. Okay, a chair from the bench is out there on the floor. Is it not out the realm of possibly that a fan from the stands came down and threw the chair. Remember, just because I didn't see it doesn't mean the camera didn't see it, and it doesn't mean that the coach can't get fined afterwards. It just means he didn't get penalized for it in the game.

My decision to not add insult to injury does have merit, whether you accept it or not. Again, different story if i see him do it.

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that if someone else does something stupid, it makes the referee look stupid. I did not throw a chair like I'm a immature child. That's like saying Atlanta is stupid for hiring Michael Vick to QB their team, when the person who is stupid is Vick, period.

I will engage you to the extent that I let the coach get away with one. And that's exactly it, that's your one. It's like letting your opponent have the first punch. I will be waiting the next time and i will still write his a$$ up for a chair being throw from his bench. In the NBA or NCAA or even NFHS, technical or not, he will still get a heafty fine for that act. So you see JR (aka master silly monkey) he's not getting away with anything.

I know it's difficult but try not to jump to conclusions....

In NCAA, you need to know the culprit. You can not just arbitrary give the bench a technical without knowing exactly who did what. In the case of your example, if you don't know exactly who said it, you just got to eat it. Much the same way i ate the chair. Yeah, i took a hit for it, but I disagree that it makes me look like a fool. Move on, clock got to coutdown to zero and then my job is over. Keep an eye on that bench for any further outburst, collect pay at end of game.

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peace

This is so easy it's practically juvenile.
T the head coach. You know he did it, even if you didn't see it. If, by some small .00000001% chance it was someone else on his bench, oh well. He will keep that bench in control better next time.

Probably last year. Early season tournament assignment for a private school thing. Allegedly varsity. This game amounted to the 7-8th place game, as both teams had lost their first two games. Immediately, it was clear even this game was going to be a blowout. The bad team was poorly coached and lived by the motto "if you can't beat 'um, beat 'um up." We (2 man) struggled to keep control from the middle of the first quarter, but were doing OK. The biggest problem was that we were trying to keep the clock running and throw a bone to the losing team by calling fouls against them and only the felonies committed by them. By the 4th quarter, it was apparent that strategy was flawed. The winning team started getting a little miffed about how they were getting hammered and no call was made.

One example of the contact was a good wrestling throw down move that the losing team was using -- calling it a block out. On a rebound, they'd grab the other player, and throw him down. Unbelievably I let one of these go, then started calling them. The coach was irate from the middle of the 3rd quarter on (down by at least 35 at that point), and in the 4th, my partner threw out one of the premier wrestlers on the losing team after he threw an elbow. The coach started asking me if we gave him a warning first, and I told him, "no, we don't give warnings for flagrant fouls." Then, he started loudly complaining. I had passed on a T before then, but late in the game, it was starting to get out of hand. After I warned him twice, he continued his loud protests, and I dumped him. My first ejection ever. I do know the coach was shocked beyond belief and might have had some job issues because of it. This was supposedly a Christian school!

While I stand by the ejection, I performed poorly. But to some extent, it was worth it due to the things I've learned:

1. Don't automatically go into blowout mode (i.e. ignoring fouls committed by the team getting pummeled), especially early in the game. You might be judicious in your selection of what to call, but don't EVER ignore things like takedowns or other completely physical moves that have no place in any basketball game. I can't believe I swallowed my whistle on that one play.

2. Don't ignore the T even if the team's coach you need to hit is behind by a bunch. Had I hit the coach earlier, ejection may not have come about.

3. Warn once, then enforce. Most coaches don't want to be ejected, and won't chance a second T.

Wait a minute now...Dan can be very subtle - in fact, sometimes he's so subtle nobody gets his jokes! On the other hand, I'm still waiting for him to say something mature. :D

What the hell difference does that make? :rolleyes:

Gee Rocky, thanks for the help there buddy....errr....hey wait a minute... :mad:

TMI !!! How's that for subtle and mature?

#1. Never go into blowout mode

#2.) There is this thing called game management. It's in the book. Sometimes, it is better to use your discretion.

#3.) I know some coaches that behave even worse after receiving 1st technical because they know officials won't give them the 2nd one.

Try communicating to the players and coaches how you expect the game should be played, what you will accept and what you will not. If I got a team that's getting chippie, we start sending people to the bench. 7th and 8th grade, go to the bench, varsity, intentional foul. Hopefully you can get thru it, if not JR em...

Or he might have something to say to your assigner for giving him a T he didn't commit. It could have been a fan for all you know. At the NCAA level there is a huge fine for getting a technical, you better be sure about that. Telling your assigner it was someone on the bench, I don't think is gonna fly.

Right up there with Dan, kinda subtle but not really mature.

I like to think of myself as subtly mature.

Quit talking like this was during an NCAA game, 'cause if it was, I guarantee you'd have been retired for not giving him a T. Three person crew, there's no excuse for someone not seeing it. HS game, call the T on the HC and move on.
Which book would that be?
And whose fault is that? Oddly, I haven't seen this after my Ts (with one exception who quickly learned that a 2nd T would indeed be called). Here's a hint, wreck coaches can be taught, too. Hand out a deserved 2nd T a couple of times, and they get the picture pretty quickly.

You'll never be in Mick and Bob's class though.

It's true, it's true......I read it somewhere.

No problemo Dan. Glad I could "help"!! :D

And I am proud to say that I am neither subtle nor mature.

I'd like to say that I was glad OS is back, but I'm not a liar...it is kind of fun to watch Snaq yank on his chain though...

You can't call what you don't see! Nobody going to get retired for failing to call a T or any violation for that matter, that they are not sure of. Are you suggesting to GUESS?????

NCAA College coaches are very powerful and influencial people. Most of them have been doing their jobs longer than we have been officiating. You talk all big and bad but as hard as it is to get on a college schedule. If there's some real NCAA officials out here that's willing to speak the truth, they will tell you. That's not a place you want to go in your games. You look for other ways (game management) of handling the situation.

I was shocked.....shocked, I tell ya......to find out that apparently Chuck isn't subtle or mature either. I always thought that he was extremely mature....for a short guy.

Iow, the officials were completely wrong to make this call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvRO2GE4x4M

You know as much about what's going on in college games as you do about high school games. You only know what you've <b>seen</b> from the stands or on tv. It ain't your rec leagues, Toto.

You didn't read me correctly. You will get retired, fired, and canned for not making this call. Either you saw it and didn’t call it, or you didn't see it. Either way, there's no excuse at the NCAA level. Not with a three-whistle crew.
Let's put it this way: The ones who are that powerful and influential didn’t get that way by throwing chairs across the floor. I guarantee if they throw a chair across, they're expecting the T. Worst thing you can do then is not call it.

You didn't hear me correctly. I asked my partner (2-person), he didn't see it. I got nothing. It wasn't an NCAA game, it was a wreck league game that was determined. I suppose I could have poured a little salt on that, but it wasn't going to change the outcome. I do agree with JR that this will cause problems for me later on, as everyone thinks I'm not going to make the big call. Guess what, I got a surprise for them. I am the better because i acknowledge and understand that this is coming. It is a problem that I now have to deal with alone. Acknowledging the problem is half the solution.

Did we forget about Bobbie Knight? and he's still coaching.

I am in complete agreement with you. We are often our own worst critics. We know when we have made a mistake or were less than perfect. But, we learn from it and move on.

And he's still spelling his name "Bobby" Knight. Boy, you sure know a lot about basketball. :rolleyes:

Oh, I read you perfectly. You had a chair flying across the floor. You didn't see who threw it, but you knew who threw it. I'm willing to bet a quick count of the chairs lined up on the bench would have told you which bench it came from, in case you really didn’t know. Call the T on the head coach. As I said, if it wasn't him, he'll learn to control his bench better in the future.Three words for this, and the third word is "Sherlock."You're the one who brought very "powerful" and "influential" NCAA coaches, NCAA fines, etc., into the discussion not me. In fact, I recall telling you to quit pretending this was done in an NCAA game. It's funny, I know refs who are reluctant to call Ts if they're afraid it might affect the outcome. Then there are refs who are reluctant to call one when it won't affect the outcome. Either way, it's an excuse, and it's not why you didn't call it. So all this rambling and you agree with us?
Not at all. Obviously, he's the first guy to come into mind when discussing restless chairs. Also, obviously, he got a technical foul called when he threw the chair. So using him as an example is really counter-productive to your whole point here.

My dog's name is Sherlock. When I take him out for a walk and he doesn't "do his business", guess what I say to him.

I know - TMI. :p

The maturity is extremely subtle!!:D

If I didn't see who threw it, how can I actually say I knew who threw it. I have no problem calling a technical on something I see. I get a little bit hestitant when i'm not sure. I'm only paid to enforce what I see. The bigger arguement here is one referee trying to tell another referee he did something wrong when it's not his call to make. Why can't you accept the fact that there is more than one way to handle a conflict. We don't always have to enforce a T or spank the kid to get them to do the right thing. It was my game, my decision, and I stand behind it. You may not agree with me, but guess what, it's not your decision to make.

If you want to fire me because I did't enforce a T when I admitted I wasn't sure who to gice the T too. Then that's on you. Oh, and I can live with that. My bet is if you continue to do business like this, you won't have very many competent officials working for you.

There's also referees who won't call a T when they are not sure. I think that calling a T should be used to better the game. If it's not going to better the game than the ref should have the disgression on whether to enforce or not. IOW's, if the game already determined, why add further insult to your game. I know you don't think before you act, but further thought into calling this T meant delaying the game longer, thus prolonging the ending and increasing the time for something even stupider to happen.

I made a decision for the betterment of the game, not for the betterment of the official. It's not about me. I will get another game to work and a chance to redeem myself. So far, you guys have made this about the official. I'm the only one who is standing up for the game, who considers the game more important. It's called game management. Get over yourself and you might learn something.

1) Iow, if the game is already determined, let the coaches throw chairs and the players swear at you. Anything goes just so you can get the damn game over. I got news for you, JMO. The rec leagues that you work obviously bear no relation at all with real basketball. That might be the absolute dumbest advice ever posted in the history of this forum. You <b>NEVER</b> ignore unsporting conduct just so get a game over. Ostriches don't make good sports officials. Neither do people without the testicular fortitude to take care of bidness.

2) You wouldn't recognize game management if it jumped up and kicked you in the head. You don't have a clue what the term means. Ignoring unsporting conduct just to get a game over is about as far from game management as you can get.

That's not what I said, a little spin control here.

Got nothing to do with me. Whether it's real bb or fake bb, or whatever you want to call it. Coaches should not throw chairs, whether the officials calls a T on it or not, that is wrong and unprofessional behavior in whatever league you want to call it.

It was never mentioned as advice, it is and will forever remain my opinion. You may not agree with it, that is your right.

At some point during this discussion you need to take the time to read what has been written. I did not IGNORE anything. I did not see a violation therefore I got no call to make. I am not happy about the chair being on the court, but you know what, I am not happy about the price of gas either.

And you have no clue what it takes to be a good official. Quote from NFHS Quarterly Report: People may think that simply knowing the games rules constitues competent officiating. There is so much more.....