Volleyball anyone?
 

One of my co-workers who used to work basketball has worked volleyball for the past 5 or 6 years. Their first meeting of the year is coming up and he asked me if I was interested in working volleyball. I told him I'd have to think about it.

Pros - cons? (and by "cons", I don't mean prisoners) :rolleyes:

Comments from anyone who works both would be appreciated. BTW - he stopped officiating basketball because of a personal situation having to do with getting up and down the court, not because he didn't like it anymore. He's a good guy and he made it sound like fun, but it doesn't sound like an opportunity to get much exercise, which is one of the reasons I work basketball (at my age, you need all the exercise you can get).

Thanks in advance, everyone.

Oh yeah - do you get to make up your own rules? :p

Volleyball is better pay in this area, Mark, than basketball, but definitely a LOT less exercise!! We work alone at the MS and freshman levels, so you do have the exercise of climbing up and down the "stand" usually two or three times a game (with time-outs). It's kinda interesting, but the rules are much simpler, and the action isn't really fun to watch until the better JV and varsity level. And at those levels, if you're the "down" or net ref, you don't watch the ball, and that makes it incredibly tedious. The "up" or stand official gets a better view of the action, but also has to watch closely for other things and I find it to be a little dizzying at times.

I was terrible at anything above the MS level, and some freshmen. I just couldn't get the hang of back row attack, or of the lifts and double hits. At the lower levels, back row attack doesn't happen because the girls are too small (ball has to be completely above the level of the net) and the lifts and doubles are easier because they're so obvious.

Around here, there's much more control over the coaches, and they are much more restrained. Parents are just as clueless, though, but you usually have more authority because they don't watch as much v-ball on TV. THere's nothing equivalent to the NBA. On the other hand, a lot of girls play "club" ball, and the rules can be very different and that's confusing, since they really don't understand either set.

But you can get $150 or $200 dollars on a long Saturday, and it doesn't take very many of those to make a good season!

I worked VB for 2 years while in college and didn't like it very much. I love the sport, but officiating it was quite boring for me. I moved up relatively fast, working varsity games my first year and a couple of playoff games my second. The best match I had was one for a district championship that went 3 games, and I enjoyed that game and the playoff games. The others, I really just wanted to get them over with, so I quit.

These were small schools in Texas without a lot of VB talent there. I've heard that if you work the bigger schools, things are better, but I like football MUCH better -- so it isn't an issue for me anymore.

OK - Juulie, that's starting to sound better. However, my feeling at this time is that I'll pass (pun intended). I asked Lee (my co-worker) to say hi to you at the meeting.

BTW - does the volleyball association have a "Howard equivalent"? :)

Volleyball is not that bad. It can be uninteresting. As Juulie stated, the up official watches the ball and blows the whistle on all calls relating to the ball. Down official watches for net violations. That is basically when he/she blows the whistle.
If you have not played the game, then when you read the rules you will be surprised. I find basketball way more interesting, but there are volleyball officials that are passionate to the sport.

I just finished the training for new volleyball officials and took my test yesterday. Haven't worked any real matches yet. It doesn't seem real interesting, compared to basketball, but I've barely started, so I can't give an honest opinion yet.

There is very little physical exertion in officiating volleyball. There is, however, just as much mental exercise as any other game out there.

The lower level (MS, FR) matches can be boring as the skills may not yet be fully developed. Some of the athleticism displayed at the Varsity HS and college levels is great. If you can make it through the lower levels as you are working your way up, VB becomes a fast-paced, exciting game to officiate at the higher levels.

[QUOTE=Andy]There is very little physical exertion in officiating volleyball. There is, however, just as much mental exercise as any other game out there.
[QUOTE]

I beg to differ but we're entitled to our own opinions... I think the physical exertion that an official endures during any sporting event makes the mental part of the game that much harder. Again, JMO.

Volleyball officiating is like stealing money.

But it bores me to death.

[QUOTE=BktBallRef]Volleyball officiating is like stealing money.
__________________________________________________ ________

I hear this phrase a lot -- usually from football or basketball guys -- but always from people who have no idea how stupid a statement it is!

I've done one season of wreck league quality volleyball. It can be really boring. It does require quite a bit of mental effort. Some of that effort is just keeping your head in the game. Unlike basketball there isn't the physical effort that generally keeps you in the game. I concur with Juulie's dizzying comment, the ball moves pretty quickly and there's other stuff to watch right along with it and until you adjust it can be kinda harrying. Fortunately adjusting doesn't take too long. I'm tempted to do it this year for the money.

I am a tri-official (football, basketball, volleyball) and each sport has their goods and bads. I think that when you take multiple sports, it forces you to learn the rules even more. For those thinking volleyball is boring, I must beg to differ. I work a lot of HS in the larger schools and the hits and digs are great to watch. When you have to keep the back rows straight and look that net straight down for a touch, you can't afford to doze off.
I have a little matrix for my sports and their demands on me:

Football: Highly Physical Low Mental
Volleyball: Low Physical Highly Mental
Basketball: Highly Physical Highly Mental

Great mix of sports for me. Enjoy all of them.

Call it stupid if you like but I'm not just a football/basketball official who's just saying it. I've worked volleyball. I've never made so much for doing so little. It's a piece of cake, it's boring as hell, it's stealing money. In my area, the guys who are are now in the 60's and 70's call volleyball. There's nothing to it.

Stupid is as stupid does, Forest.

Actually, it is Forrest [Gump].

Just like you'd rather have two desserts and only ever visit one desert, you'd watch Forrest Gump twice, and only visit a forest once.

Edit: as for volleyball, have you seen the tall leggy women that play at the higher levels?

07/08 will be my third season officiating VB, my second officiating BB. I really like them both and can't really say which I would choose over the other if I had to drop one.

Obviously, there is no comparison with regard to the physical aspect of the games; BB you run, VB you don't.

Mentally, my personal experience is that VB has been more challenging than BB, more so as the referee than as the umpire. I've struggled with recognizing proper alignment/overlaps at serve and making sure that I know who is who in the back row during play.

I have a great deal of respect for those officials who can somehow memorize the entire line up and recognize an alignment error with just a glance. Some of the teams will line up is such a bizarre alignment that you would swear that they are overlapped, yet they are not; others will purposely assemble illegally and then just before serve they adjust to make their alignment legal .. sheesh!

Illegal back row attacks .... I've missed more of them than I care to mention.

And now in CA the Libero can serve .. for crying out loud!

Along the lines of what Juulie said, I like to refer to volleyball as a kinder, gentler sport. We probably have more ejections in basketball in one week than volleyball has had in this state in the last 5 years.

While it is not as physically demanding as basketball (although spending 2+ hours on top of a 2'x2' stand can be pretty tiring), it is much more mentally demanding if you're doing the job right. The up official has to judge every contact of the ball for legality based on several criteria, keep track of the number of hits, front row/back row status of the players, height of the ball when contacted under certain circumstances, etc. In a game/match between reasonably good teams it can be a real challenge.

Yes we have a "Howard" equivalent - very sharp lady & is also the SRI for volleyball. I think we had almost 30 new folks show up last night. When I started 5 years ago we had a shortage of officials in this area, but from what the commish said that's no longer a problem - to the point where most of the new officials may only see MS matches their first year.

I wasn't aDDreSSing FoRRest Gump.

I was aDDreSSing Forest Refnrev.

BuTT thanks for your interest.

k00l. <iii>

SuBBOOKKEEper

I am also a Basketball/Volleyball official and enjoy both sports. There is no question that basketball involves much more physical activity but I do enjoy the varsity volleyball games. Lower level volleyball is similar to lower level basketball in that the skill level does not allow for a well played game. I would have to agree with those who say that they are just printing money in those matches.

Last year my first game and last game were both varsity matches played to full houses. The joint was rocking and loud, the kids were playing lights out, the kills were brutal. Mixed bag in between those games of talent level throughout the year but still fun.

I did a 5th grade rec league game where both teams played above the usual level for a rec league. In the deciding game one of the coaches took out his best player as she had played in the first two games and he wanted to be fair. One of the best sportsmanship moves I saw last season. They eventually lost but his parents were fine as all the kids played. His goal was to prepare them for eventually playing in high school and he wanted to be sure that everyone still enjoyed the game. You never know if you're gonna cut the next Jordan.

This coach deserves a medal. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/2thumbs.gif

Thank you. That's all I was saying. Then Rev got his panties in a bunch.

It's a piece of cake, working those games but it bores me to death.

OK - that's the clincher. If there's no fun in it, I'm out. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...images/sad.gif

[QUOTE=BktBallRef]Thank you. That's all I was saying. Then Rev got his panties in a bunch.
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Actually, they were compression shorts!:D (which you would never wear when doing VB anyway.)

Who are you to judge? Some people may find them very comfortable. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

....with the nice, tight shorts on.....

Are you sure that wasn't refnrev?

I heard that tjones1 is thinking about adding beach volleyball to the sports he officiates. I think he has this thing for temporary gatorade tattoos? How about it TJ?

Hey, the rumor is true. We are still trying to work out my contract. Things are on the hush-hush right now. But, I can tell you they aren't going for the round trip and board, plus free Cold Stone Ice Cream. And yeah, the gatorade tattoos are just an added bonus! :D

I hate to burst your bubble, guys, but volleyball is the most difficult sport to officiate, period!

Now, before you burst a jugular after reading that sentence, hear me out. I started out as a basketball official and worked the sport for 10 years, I proceeded to umpire high school baseball and fast-pitch softball as well as summer ball. Those sports were easy for me to do because I had experience with the games that I was officiating. Volleyball, however, was a whole different case.

I originally decided to do volleyball because I remembered what it was like, freezing my butt off on the football sideline at the end of October, early November in NorthWest Ohio. So, I decided to officiate volleyball.

Yes, the pay for officiating volleybal is pretty decent, but if you are going to do a good job, you better be willing to work your tail off to learn the game. BktBallRef, you have obviously never studied the game of volleyball because you never played it competitively. You sound exactly like a lot of the guys who thought that reffing volleyball was easy money, like stealing it from a baby. It is only that if you don't take the time to learn how to officiate the game properly.

I freely admit, that of all the sports that I officiated, I disliked (read that "hated") volleyball the most because (1) I had never played the sport and (2) every time the ball is touched, it is a judgment call as to whether the contact is legal or not. I couldn't see the double for the longest time, but I worked my tail off to follow the advice of coaches and officials whom I respected. Plus, learning when a team is out of rotation with some of the "stacks" that coaches have devised will almost drive you cross-eyed trying to figure out what the heck the team is doing.

What I am saying, in a nutshell, is what I heard a very respected volleyball official say, "Refereeing volleyball is easy...unless you want to do it correctly! Then, you are going to have to do some serious work to get it right."

Those kids on the court deserve the best job of officiating that can be provided. If the official isn't there for the kids and the love of the game, I can guarantee that particular individual is not going to be officiating volleyball very long because they will either consider it a "boring" sport or the coaches will not put up with the attitude of the ref being there just for the paycheck.

After 10 years of refereeing basketball and 11 years of umpiring baseball/softball, the only sport that I do any more is volleyball and I think that I may finally be getting an idea what the sport is about as I start my 25th season.

No matter how many people say it, it doesn't make it any less ignorant.

Everyone I've heard make that statement (and there have been many) are those who think it's easy because they are sorely lacking in the knowledge that it takes to be a good volleyball official. They call things that shouldn't be called, don't call things that should be called, and are so utterly ignorant on the current skills being demonstrated that they wind up having no clue what's going on out there.

If there was "nothing to it," then why do you think there are actually distinctions between good and bad VB officials? Wouldn't all VB officials be the same if there was "nothing to it?"

I'm sure there are guys in your area in their 60s and 70s doing ALL sports. Are those sports just as "easy" in your mind?

If you don't like reffing VB, I can totally understand that. It's not a sport you can come in and understand. It takes work, sometimes years to understand some of the nuances...you know, if you actually care enough to work at the craft, as opposed to "stealing money." But to say it's an easy sport to ref is really laughable...especially at the higher levels.

Thanks for the hearty laugh.

A lot of guys around here seem to have the same attitude: that VB is "easy" and like "stealing money."

In a couple respects, they are correct: officiating volleyball does not require officials to run or even move much, and that's easy compared to, say, basketball.

Also, the mechanics are simple, partly since movement is not required, and that's easy compared to, say, baseball.

The rules are, I think, much simpler than baseball's, so that's easier as well (although I agree with Felix that there are nuances).

What I've found challenging so far (and I'm a novice) is judging hits and keeping track of alignments. So much of VB officiating depends on these skills, which I suspect take a while to develop. And this, it seems to me, is at least as difficult as judging advantage/disadvantage when calling basketball fouls.

MCBear may have overstated the case a little, but here is the truth in plain simple language: VOLLEYBALL IS VERY HARD TO DO IF YOU WANT TO DO IT RIGHT. Case closed. End of story

Here's one pro that a colleague of mine has:

He gets to officiate in the women's volleyball tournament held at the nudist camp 40 minutes away. Seriously.

No way! You've got to be making that up.

It's called the Four Seasons resort.

And about the guy that takes his place after my friend retires:

That's truly a case about who you know, not what you know!

You might think this would be an exciting event, but I heard it's a real flop. :p

It's not the senior league is it?

But it's certainly created quite a flap :D

Well, I guess I'll be finding out for myself how hard it really is. Last night I took the plunge and signed up to do HS volleyball. Like I mentioned earlier, I've done some really low-level volleyball, which really was like printing your own money -- if you could stay awake.

I'm looking forward to trying this, but so far I'm a little apprehensive about my ability to track rotations and overlaps and call ball-handling stuff among players who do more than stand in a rectangular formation with their hands permanently locked in passing mode.

Dang it sucks feeling like a rookie again. :(

You're right, I haven't ever played volleyball competitively. It would be a waste of my time. I couldn't care less how I sound. I don't like and have no interest in officiating it, watching, and hearing about it for that matter. If that bunches your panties, so be it.

Yep, it's real tough to stand on a stool and turn your head back and forth, back and forth, back...... You're to be commended for all your hard work!

And just because you say it with conviction, it doesn't make you sound any less stupid. A PIECE OF CAKE!

Now, for the both of you: I didn't attack you, didn't address, don't know either of you from Adam. Yet, you both chose to single me out when all I did was post my feelings regarding the sport. If you don't like it, I don't give a $hit. I don't live my life for you. It's a boring freaking game to me, whether it's Podunk HS vs. Redneck HS or UCLA against Hawaii. You can have it!

BTW, to say that you must have played a sport to understand how to properly officiate it is one of the stupidest remarks that I read on discussion boards. It's soemthing we normally hear from fanboys! How gay is that, a volleyball fanboy?

Let the games begin :D

http://www.planebuzz.com/flying-cat-fight.jpg

HEY! If it's UCLA (or anyone, for that matter) vs. Hawaii IN Hawaii, I'll take it.

BTW - anyone know where I can get certified to work shuffleboard? :confused:


http://www.sportsknowhow.com/images/...board-ship.gif

I'll be uncharacteristically serious for a minute. I would think the main criteria to use to determine which sport is the most difficult to officiate would be how much subjectivity vs. objectivity would be involved. The more you have to use your judgment vs. just having a call be obvious by rule, the more difficult it would be to be consistent and "correct".

Using this theory, the most difficult games to work (not counting physical effort) would be lower level games that are extremely active, would allow the possibility of making a call almost every second and would require continuous use of your judgment. IOW, something like a 3rd grade basketball game, where you are constantly deciding "how much" traveling to allow, etc.

It would seem to me, the less amount of action in a game, the less difficult it would be to call. I realize this is a broad generalization, but I think it has some merit.

There was a college player who was suspended for not wearing a bra in a game. She turned to her teammates for help, but they refused to support her in this matter.

Or manner.

Sigh...Bob, you've been reading too many e-mail from M&M again.

Suspended for not wearing a bra, or suspended by not wearing a bra? ;)

Folks, I couldn't even make this stuff up if I tried. Brilliant.

I'd hate to see what "attacking someone" would be in your world.

I didn't say YOU were ignorant. I said your STATEMENT was ignorant. I'm sorry that you can't tell the difference. Reading is fundamental, and I apologize that you weren't able to discern the difference.

I see that instead of addressing the points raised, you decide to make leaps that would make Evel Knievel jealous. Bravo to you! And the name-calling. Wow...that's just...special. Here's a hint...if you don't want people quoting what you say in a reply...don't say it. Oh, wait...that might take a little self-restraint on your part. Check that.

Your diatribe, while again being good for little more than a chuckle and a head shake, has done nothing to dispel any of the arguments presented.

Go ahead and blast away at me. I'm waiting for the scathing attack in which you misrepresent what was said, do more name calling, and pretty much add nothing to the conversation. Call me whatever you want, because as evidenced by your posting history, it's what you do well. But I probably care less about what you think of me than you think about my opinion of you.

Well, not only did you quote him out of context, you quoted him out of order. He said he "didn't attack you," not that he wasn't going to.

And you're defending yourself here against an accusation he never made in an effort to denegrate his reading skills? That's just classic.

No, he won a clown suit. Completely on merit too.

What exactly was "out of context?" What did I falsely accuse him of? Again, I addressed his statement, not him personally, and he responded with a personal attack.

The fanboy comment you quoted of him was out of context, frankly.
You defended yourself by saying "I never said you were ignorant." He didn't say you had.

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Good point! And the amount of action and the speed of such at higher level VB games is very high... and the fact that you are standing still on a stand instead of moving closer and changing angles to process it makes for an interesting set of dynaamics as well.

Let's just end this now by agreeeing that all sports are more difficult to officiate than they appear to an outsider and that each presents it's own challenges and "sport A" might be more difficult to one person while "sport B" is more difficult to another.