you make the call
 

What would you do in this youtube video right here. Sorry if this has already been discussed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9wrdhQCNb4

I've not seen this before so I'll comment.

Game over - head to the house. No time on the clock - you don't need to shoot the second FT - I'm not having a conference unless it's to discuss a pretty blonde in the 5th row. :D

I agree with Mountaineer...One successful free throw ends the game.

However, the bigger problem was mechanics-wise. In three person, the lead had plenty of time to get set on the baseline to fairly judge the contact. Whether it was incidental or not I'm not going to judge. The lead was absolutely straight lined because he didn't hustle to get to the baseline to get a better angle. If I was the losing coach, that's what I would be complaining about, not the team coming on the floor.

There was clearly time on the clock when the whistle blew. The clock shows 0.3 when the shooter is already on the ground out of bounds. If any of the 3 officials observed the time before the clock hit zero, they should put that amount back up.

they could guess, and put .9 back on.

I agree about the lead positioning. If he would have hustled, he would have had a good look at the play instead of the straightline view.

No communication between the officials after the foul about how much time on the clock. Weird. Communicate and then make sure everyone knows if there is time left in regulation.

Then they decide to have a long conference after the free throws when the game is over? What a screwy deal. That crew needs a leader (an "R"). The technical foul was the official's fault. Teams didn't know that the game was not over because of the lack of communication.

Trail official should have had a GREAT look at the clock after the foul to be able to put the correct amount of time on the clock.

What a disaster in referee communication and teamwork.

Comments on the block call? Seemed like LGP was never established and the defender moved in on the shooter at the end.

It could be argued LGP was established near mid court. The defender had 2 feet on the floor and was facing the opponent. The ball handler never got head and shoulders past the defender, and the defender maintained a lateral movement. It could be argued the ball handler initiated the contact by going into the defender.

What a mess the whole thing was. The trail should have taken the play all the way in. He had the better angle than the lead, and the lead was, at best, guessing.

One they cleared the lane for the free throws, that told everybody that there was no time on the clock. One successful free throw and the game should have been over. Why did the referees delay after the successful free throw?

LGP was established from what I can see on the video.

Defender had 2 feet onthe floor facing his opponent as he caught the ball.

L's position at the start of is fine. I agree he should have found a way to get to the baseline.

I didn't watch to the end but from what I saw I agree that there was time left, it should have been caught by someone and there should have been a conference to determine what happens before the game resumed.

From reading the description, a technical foul was called.

I didn't have the patience to watch all 5 minutes. But, if there's no T, then the game is over at the first shot (assuming they're not going to fix the clock).

So, a no call would be the better call? Coming from the trail.

I'm not going there. But compare the Trail's view of the play to the Lead's view, and decide who had the better angle.

To be honest, after the first viewing I said the game is over. After going thru the lengthly discussion with Snaqs on putting time back on the clock, and just plain good clock management. .3 seconds should be put back on the clock here. This is a great educational video to show that you must get the time on a last second play. All 3 officials are responsible. If you didn't get it. The Fed. rule says the game is over and they let the crew off the hook. But that decision, that ruling in fact, does a disservice to the opposing team and the game. I understand why the Fed. says the game is over, thanks to Snaqs, it makes sense now. However, as a crew these guys missed it and you guys missed it and i missed it. We got work to do here! From now on, I'm going to make sure in a last second situation, I get the clock the second that whistles blows.

This is a great video, very pertinent to the topic under discussion, thanks for sharing.

I do not blame the officials for knowing exactly what should or should not be on the clock. That is a very hard thing to see by the calling official (unless there was another clock located in his field of vision and that is not likely). It is possible that the official opposite table or the Trail official might have gotten a better look. If the rules considered lag time, I would say without a doubt the game is over after the FTs. Now with the new rule, if you have knowledge they could put time on the clock. The problem is I do not think they had any knowledge of the clock status. I can tell by the official's body language that they were confused as to what to do. Someone has to know the rule about the game ending. It is possible that there might have been other factors in shooting the FTs. It is not clear if this was a regular season or playoff game (at least to me). That could have been the only reason they shot FTs but I do not know that for sure.

Peace

Would you call a T on the team for celebrating a close game??? After time as expired??? Not to mention, that if any official didn't know how much time to be put back up on the clock, then it has to be game over. After the foul shots, then the game has to be over.

I agree with that . . . they should - but they didn't. My comments were only about the incident that happened after time expired. And note that the coach didn't argue that time should have been put back on the clock - he should have been *****in about that instead of crying for a T that shouldn't be called.

Agree completely. That's why I said "if" they saw any time on the clock, they should put it back up. But if you don't see it -- and as you said, it's very hard for the calling official to see it -- then you can't put any time up.

Agree completely.

Agree completely.

Hell no you do not give a T, unless you don't want to be an official anymore. Because they lined up with nobody on the line, that meant they concluded no time was left and therefore the game is over. I have no idea what they are discussing. They are probably caught in the correctable error logic in that, they probably should have had the teams line-up because there should be timed left on the clock, not to mention, giving a T in this situation, oh my, this could be very bad for them. I say game over, go home! Thanks to Snaqs, I now have definite knowledge that neither of us knew the status of the clock which means the game is over. I actually like that rule.

Why oh why wasn't the lead into position to referee that play, which I believe from tape, he called the play incorrectly. But forget that, he did call a foul, now why did the slot or the Trail not have the time?

Even so, if they'd decided that the time was all gone, and the one ft meant the game was over, shouldn't they just have gotten the heck out of dodge? Why are they all standing around? And then shouldn't they have given another ft? As someone else said, what a mess.

There was 1.5 seconds on the visable clock at the point of contact.

The clock can't be seen at the exact point the arm went up, but there was .4 on it when it was visable again after the call.

So much was wrong here, these guys were not ready for a game ending situation, nobody looked at the clock, lead had no excuse for not being on the endline, they had no idea what they should do with no time on the clock, they never got together before they shot the FT.

I noticed that the losing coach came onto the floor (as well as his assitant) wanting a T called. Wouldn't he also get a T for a coaching box violation? (Again as well as his assistant)

My view- game over, go home and wait for the SH*T to hit the fan! Maybe consider a new vocation.

The only part that isn't horrible about this is the foul that was called -- but that was an easy, obvious call.

You have to put time back on the clock. At least 0.3 seconds -- maybe more, but you couldn't see the clock the entire video.

As played, they didn't put time back on the court, so when the kids makes the first free throw the game is over -- you can't call a technical for the team rushing the court when the game is over. This is no different than them rushing onto the court when the clock hits 0.0 and the buzzer sounds.

If you whistle a foul before the buzzer, put time back on the clock!

I don't know. This entire situation imo stinks. The lead should have displayed a little more hustle to either get into postion and let the play come to him. I cannot say the amount of contact warranted a foul call in that situation because the level allowed the entire game I am not aware of. The situation was not good. It showed that there my not have been a thorough pre-game or discussion towards the end of the game on how to handle situation like the one which occurred.

Really? That was an obvious foul to you? A kid with his hands straight up and pretty much backing away from the offensive player who was trying to draw contact. It could possibly be a foul, don't get me wrong, but from that angle it was far from obvious, imo. Had he kept coming towards the offensive player and submarine him when he went up, that, I would have considered obvious.

Yes - very obvious imo. The kid body bumps the offensive player as he shoots and knocks him off balance and to the floor. Watch the defender's feet -- he is not backing away.

"Protect the shooter"

Agree. The defender put his hands up and then chested him. Good call on the foul despite the terrible position the L was in.

I disagree with this being an "obvious" foul. It might have been a foul, but that is up to the judgment of the official. The defender is allowed to get in the way of the defender. I think the shooter was a little out of control and caused some of the contact. I also do not think the lead was in the best position to make the call either way.

Peace

Buzzer?
 

Apparently the buzzer sounded? I didn't hear it.

What in the world do you mean by that? Sorry I see now that you were responding to an earlier post.

What I mean is that the defender moves into the shooter as he takes his shot.

Question,

Don't have my books with me. I didn't hear the horn sound in the video (it may have, but I didn't hear it). Do I remember correctly that if the clock reads 0:00 but the horn has not yet sounded, there is still time on the clock, albeit less than 1/10 of a second, and in this case if the horn didn't sound, they should line up and shoot with people in the lane spaces?

Assuming the buzzer was set to automatically sound, yes.

Yes - that is the rule.

If you want to be anal about it, the correct term is the timer's <font color = red>signal</font>. The signal could be a horn, buzzer or Curley Joe going "nyuk, nyuk, nyuk".

Just because we didn't hear the buzzer, doesn't mean it didn't sound.

:confused:

Somebody better have heard a buzzer if the clock is working OK. If the buzzer hasn't sounded and the clock is fine, the period isn't over until you hear the buzzer...even if the clock reads 0:00.

Just check with the timer to see if the signal went. If not, line the players up as normal, and start the clock as normal.

True Stooge-o-philes don't recognize any of the replacements for the original Curly as having any validity.

Knock knock
Who's there?
New York
New York who?
Nyork, nyork, nyork.


http://www.threestooges.com/images/logo_ts35.gif

I prefer the gong.

Mark:

Do you mean the gong from The Gong Show?

MTD, Sr.

There was a "revival" of The Gong Show on Game Show Network some years ago. The bandleader on that revival was Barry Fasman, known as "The Foz". Barry and I grew up together back in Chicago. He was always into music, even as a kid. BTW - he has an older sister named "Bunny". No, I'm not joking.

I know this is way off topic, but we're in the off-season.

What other kind of gong is there? :confused:

I wasn't talking about if we as I was officiating the game, but the video was edited and they left off the buzzer.