I'm not one of those guys with a case book by my computer, but I believe Barney is right. A2 caused the ball to go out of bounds, so the throw-in should be where he caused it to go out.

If the ball had bounced out of bounds before A2 touched it, then it would be at the point of the original throw-in.

FOUND THE REFERENCE:

SECTION 6 THROW-IN ADMINISTRATION
ART. 1 . . . The throw-in pass shall touch another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched.

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Brian Johnson


[This message has been edited by PublicBJ (edited February 03, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker on 02-03-2000 11:46 AM
I don't have the rule book location at hand, but this play is handled by the rule that says the thrower-in (or "inbounder") must throw the ball DIRECTLY onto the court. Since A's teammate was out-of-bounds, that was the same as the ball touching OOB first. So, since A1 failed to pass the ball directly onto the court for the throw-in, it was a violation. Team B gets the ball at the spot of the violation, which is on the baseline next to their basket. There might be a Casebook play that describes bringing the ball back to the spot of the throw-in if it wasn't touched, but regardless: If a violation occurred, the ball is always inbounded at the spot closest to the violation, which in this case is at the original throw-in spot.
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Rule 7-6-1: "...The thrower shall release the ball on a pass directly into the court, except as in 7-5-7, within five seconds after the throw-in starts. The throw-in pass shall touch another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched."

"directly onto the court" means that it can't be a pass to a teammate OOB as is allowed after a goal nor may the ball bounce OOB before it crosses the boundary line.

The rule also says that it must "touch another player (inbounds or out of bounds)". Here it explicity says that the thrower has met the requirements even if the receiver is OOB. To confirm this, what if that receiver happened to be a defender (B). Would you call a violation on the thrower (A) and give the ball to B? If so, all a defender would have to do to get a turnover is to touch the throw-in while he/she were OOB. I really don't think this is the intent.

This topic was thouroughly discussed last summer. The conclusion then was, as I am suggesting, that the violation is on the player who touches the ball while OOB, not on the thrower. Therefore, the throw-in is at the spot of touching and not the original throw-in spot and is to be made by the team not making the touch.

[This message has been edited by Camron Rust (edited February 03, 2000).]

NFHS Casebook, page 48, Violation-Throw-In-Spot, Play 7.4.b. This is the best reference:

What and where is the violation when: b) A1, in a corner near B's end line, throws a long pass which crosses the sideline in flight at the division line and touches in the bleachers near A's end line extended;...

In (b), the violation is for causing the ball to be out of bounds, but since the ball is not out of bounds until it touches something, the violation occurs when the ball touches the bleachers and the throw-in by B is at the out-of-bounds spot nearest such touching.

Like Barney said, the player who touches it while out-of-bounds has caused it to be out-of-bounds, therefore the throw-in is from the spot closest to where the player was standing.

Team B has just scored to pull within 3 and they call an immediate time-out. .9 seconds are left on the clock. After the time-out, Team A has a throw-in along Team B's "baseline". A1 throws the ball the length of the court (probably a pretty good strategic move - with only .9 left on the clock), it bounces several times, and the first touch is by A2 who happens to be out of bounds at the other end (under team A's basket). What is the call - out of bounds? violation? And where does the subsequent throw-in take place?? With the score and time remaining - Team B's coach wants the ball out of bounds back at the spot of the original throw-in - better for them with only .9 remaining. And if you have an answer, could you let me know where it is in the rule book?!? I have been unable to even find the rule regarding an inbounds pass that doesn't get touched coming back to that spot for the subsequent throw-in. THANKS!

If the ball is not touched in play by Team A, the ball goes back to the spot of the throw in with Team B putting it in play.

I don't have the rule book location at hand, but this play is handled by the rule that says the thrower-in (or "inbounder") must throw the ball DIRECTLY onto the court. Since A's teammate was out-of-bounds, that was the same as the ball touching OOB first. So, since A1 failed to pass the ball directly onto the court for the throw-in, it was a violation. Team B gets the ball at the spot of the violation, which is on the baseline next to their basket. There might be a Casebook play that describes bringing the ball back to the spot of the throw-in if it wasn't touched, but regardless: If a violation occurred, the ball is always inbounded at the spot closest to the violation, which in this case is at the original throw-in spot.

[This message has been edited by Todd VandenAkker (edited February 03, 2000).]

Per rule 7, sect. 2, art. 2, the out of bounds player caused the ball to be OOB.
Violation, ball to be put in play at spot nearest that location.
Also refer to case book play, 7.2.2

If the throw in happened as mentioned, the ball was 'in-play' once it touched the floor in-bounds, therefore the next player to touch it causes the OOB.

[This message has been edited by barney (edited February 03, 2000).]

UNCLE!! Like I said, I didn't have the rule book reference at hand. I stand corrected and duly educated. Boy, not much room for error here--we all really keep each other on our toes. (gotta get that extra Rules book!)

My take on it is: Out of bounds (violation)on A2, if A2 touches ball while it is in the air bouncing from in bounds to out of bounds at the other end. The violation is on A1 if ball rolls across the end line or touches any surface outside the end line before A2 touches it. Concurrence?

Thanks guys! Obviously there could be several different "interpretations" - but I would concur - A2 caused it to be OOB and the ball should be at that spot. But, I can also see the argument for an invalid throw-in. SOOOO, let's hope this only happens once every ten years or so - and not with 2 seconds left in a close ball game!!!
Thanks again!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dennis Nicely on 02-03-2000 02:07 PM
My take on it is: Out of bounds (violation)on A2, if A2 touches ball while it is in the air bouncing from in bounds to out of bounds at the other end. The violation is on A1 if ball rolls across the end line or touches any surface outside the end line before A2 touches it. Concurrence? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Concurrence, yes. That must be what I meant the first time.