Does anyone know who governs the SEC officiating crews? Better yet, does anyone have an email address to those in charge?

I have a few questions I would like to ask.

If any of us did have that info, I doubt we would pass it along.

Personally, I don't think the Supervisor of Officials for the ACC/SEC cares what most fans think.

But if you have calm, rational questions that you would like answered, then feel free to ask them here.

If you're just some fan who wants to vent, find yourself a fan discussion forum somewhere and have fun.

I'm just wondering if their performance in each game is reviewed?

It seems to me this year there is a rash of what I call the "anticipation foul".

They also seem to really be missing blocking and charging calls this year for some reason and I was wondering if this was from being out of position or for some other reason.

Yes.

Is this just your opinion, or do you have rules/approved rulings to back this up?

I wouldnt say that I had rulings to back this up, but I would say that I had the consensus of SEC fans in mind when I say this. Ive heard it from a lot of people from a lot of different schools.

As two of the top conferences in college basketball, I can assure your that their games are reviewed and that they are constantly in touch with the supervisor of officials. I haven't seen anything in the ACC games that would lead me to believe that there's been any letdown is officiating. But I watch the game as a fan and an official.

I would suggest that you ignore the "talking heads" on TV. 99% don't have a basic understanding of the rules or any of the philsophies associated with them. They're just paid to talk. Also, what you see on TV is not always the same as what the official sees from 5 feet away. These guys don't get to the premiere basketball conferences in college basketball by being out of position or anticipating a call. Do they miss some? Sure they do. But not as often as the fans think.

And where do fans learn about officiating? Most from the knuckleheads on TV.

Does watching a gourmet cook prepare a meal make one a chef? No.

Does watchong an architect design a building make one an architect? No.

Does watching basketball on TV make one an officiating expert? No.

You'll enjoy the game more if you focus on the players and the game and not worry about whether an official got a call correct or not.

Good luck to the Hogs!

Kind of hard for you.
 

For your information, every big conference that I know the officials every single game, every single call or "no call" is reviewed. If they make mistakes they are usually downgraded, and a few are not asked back depending on their performance. And depending on the mistake, the officials are fined depending on what goes down.

The consensus of the fans means nothing. I officiate HS, and fans think that "over the back" is a foul of some kind. It might open some eyes of individuals if they understood that it would be hard to be critical of an official much like it would be difficult to be critical of a doctor if you have not gone thru the training or education to know what is being done right or wrong. I would assume that fans like yourself only look at what goes wrong with your team, not what goes wrong with your opponents. So what fans thinks is rather unimportant. The officials goes thru much more review than you could ever imagine and believe me, you probably do not understand enough of the rules to even have an intelligent thought toward the quality of officials in the first place.

Peace

How could you make a statement like this?

You have no idea how much expierience I have had with basketball. Playing or watching. You are right. I have never officiated a basketball game. Does that make me unintelligent as to the rules and the quality of officiating? I really do not think so.

Also, I acknowledge when I think our team got a break. Wether it was a call that could of went the other way or a no call.

I really do not need to go through training as long as I know the rules. I can evaluate if the calls are being made correctly.

I totally disagree with this. Maybe their comments are unimportant, but fans deserve the best product that can be put on the floor.

HogFan,
Try checking the link below for some of the directives that
NCAA officials are given. There is an attempt to clean up the game and it seems to be more prevalent as you move up through the ranks from DIII to DII to DI.

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/baske...ing_bulletins/

mick

That's just the point HogFan. Although J.Rut doesn't use very much tact, he's correct that 99% of the fans don't know the intricacies of the rules. That includes a majority portion who think that they do. They gain their rules knowledge from playing the game, wathcing on TV and they learn from a coach. I hate to tells you this but none of those ways are very quality ways to gain a rule education.

Why? Players know how to play but they don't know the rules. TV announcers don't know Bo Didley, much less the rules. Coaches know strategy, not rules.

I'm sorry but it's that simple.

most games(conference) in d1 are reviewed 1 way or another. whether it be by an observer at the game, by the supervisor when requested by an angry coach, or by the officials themselves. i sadly say that most higher level d1 officials do not review much tape(personal opinion), and do not get fined for missing rules. i had a friend who worked a d1 game as the u2 and the ref missed 3 rules in the game. the u2 came to him to offer knowledge and it was refused. after the game the rules were looked up in the book and the u2 was correct. the ref never called in a game report never tried to get the game and was not fined for the incident.

If you read a driving manual, but had never driven a car, would you consider yourself a good driver -- or a good evaluator of other drivers? Of course not.

It follows that it is difficult for those who have never officiated to be able to evaluate the officiating in a certain game.

The rules address the block/charge play in a few simple paragraphs, but no block/charge is the same. It takes experience and understanding of the game to know what the correct call is.

Also, officials do not have the benefit of replays -- they have to make the call or not make it in real time, with no "do overs".

If you are interested, please check out http://start.officiating.com and think about officiating a few games -- I'm sure that we'd like to hear about your experiences.

Because I can.
 

I can make the statement because of how you came on this board. It is obvious that you do not understand the first thing about what officials know or what and how they are evaluated. If you did, you would not be trying to even talk to the evaluators of any official of any conference. Because that would be a near impossiblity that he or she would even care what you said, and they would not be doing it from an individual that did not know a thing about what they are talking about. This is not necessarily directed at you, but you are not a coach, a player or an administrator that has anything credible to say or to offer.

You are right, I do not know your experience or know how long you have played. But the reality is that is not a good determiner at all. I have been officating for 6 years and this is my first year of college. Before that there was many things about the rules that I did not understand until I became an official. And I like you, watched commentators talk about how officials were not in position and using terminology that is nowhere in the rule book. "Over the back," and "Reach" come to mind. And philosopies of what officials call and do not call are coming from these genuiuses almost as hilarious as you thinking that YOUR experience makes you and expert on how good or bad officials in the SEC or any other conference for that matter are. Not trying to be funny, unless you can tell me where the definition section is in the NCAA Rulebook are and how many rules are in the NCAA Rulebook, I can pretty much stand on what I originally said. I am sure that if you cannot answer those basic questions for me or anyone else, you do nothing but prove what I have already suggested. No offense, I was just as ignit before I became an official about the rules as you appear to be right now.


You are completely incorrect. The game is for the kids first, the coaches second and the school third. It is still an scholastic endeavor not supposed to be for the fans. The game is for the players, and even they do not understand the rules the way officials do. When individuals think things like "moving screens" and the "feet must be set" for a Player-Control Foul. Oh, I am sorry, I should have said to get a "charge" so you can understand me more clearly. But I would be talking like a fan then, not an official.

Peace



[Edited by JRutledge on Jan 13th, 2002 at 09:59 PM]

SEC Officials
 

HogFan,

I used to coach basketball and really enjoyed watching it on TV and in person. I would often criticize the officials and think that I knew the rules better than them. This is my first year being a ref and it has totally changed my ideas about refs and calling games. The rules are simple to read but the philosophy of calling the game is what most fans and coaches don't get. I have to agree with JRutledge and the others on this. Enjoy the game as a fan. I watch games now and watch the officials mostly. They do a great job. Of course, you may think they missed a call but you can never know if they really did. They may have passed on that call for some philosophical reason. I agree with Brad. If you want to evaluate officials, you need to learn how to officiate and no, you can't learn that from reading the rules or watching games on TV.

Reffing is the easiest thing in the world to do....from the stands.

Hogfan, you need to grow some onions, take a class, then come run with us. I will put a dollar on the fact that the first time you work a game where there is an ignorant dad yelling 3 seconds on an inbound play, a coach wanting an "over-the-back (whatever the hell that is), or a player giving you attitude when you call a foul on him after he has chucked a player into the third row, you would not even be posting this garbage.

As an honest question, do you even know what is involved in being an official? Do you even have a concept of the time and effort we put in? I know, you think we probably just show up, collect our check and go home. You are dead wrong. We work out in the summer just like players. We attend camps to better ourselves. We take tests on a regular basis, attend (depending on your area) upwards of 6-10 or more meetings a year to cover rules, situations, and interpretations. We review tapes of ourselves, and in certain areas, others. We have evaluation done on us by the state or assignors. And this is just for MS and HS ball, the college guys can double or triple that effort. We don't do this for money, it is just for the love of the game.

It is easy to lob bombs at the SEC guys from your keyboard. But, I don't care how many of your fellow fans agree with you, you are wrong. I don't care if it is the saint mary's of the woods league, if it is college ball the officials are top notch, SEC included.

Sack up, take the challenge, <u>earn</u> your stripes, then come back and tell us how bad the SEC guys are. There is a huge shortage of officials because of people like you. Instead of contributing to the problem, be a solution. I am sure your local Middle Schools and rec leagues would love an extra hand to help out.

PS - After you tell us how bad SEC officials are then, we would also like to know exactly what your fellow fans think of your performance.

Mr. HogFan: Try This One and See How Good You Are?
 

Mr. HogFan: if you're as knowledgeable as you think you are, then what are the four criteria to have an over-and-back (i.e. backcourt) violation? Please add a post with your answer.

Don't know? Then there are lots of other rules and interpretations that you probably don't know, either.

Re: Mr. HogFan: Try This One and See How Good You Are?
 

Great Post of the Week, Adams!! And I would add that if he DOES by some weird quirk of fate get this correct, he could earn bonus points by describing the circumstances when the 3-second count is suspended, or ended.

Mr. HogFan, if you can get these two questions answered correctly, even if you use a book or a personal conversation with a ref, you will be listened to with much more credibility by all of us. That's a promise!

Hog Fan
Take it from a coach who does not ref if you do not believe these guys. I can tell you that if you come to this board with an open mind and read what these officials have to say on all topics, you will see the kind of detail that goes into the reffing of a mere HS JV game - and that refs work to get just to that level. Step up to varsity, you need to be a whole lot better. Do any college, it's going to be easier to get D3 or D2 than D1 (on which you comment). And if you do D1, they are looking at every game, and especially in the major conferences. I know a couple of D1 officials personally and they go through a lot to get there alone, and to get the good games requires that they really have a good game themselves.

I can also say that my rules knowledge is better by far since joining this forum. Trying to argue with these refs ;) has forced me into my rule book on more occasions than I can possibly remember. Before I got in there, I don't think i won too many because I sorta knew it, but didn't have the true facts. And I can say that what I have learned here (backed by rule and case) has shown me how little most announcers, fans, coaches and players know about the rules. I hear former coaches and players that now announce give some explanations that just make me cringe. And if these announcers are on 3-5 nights a week, we get that explanation 3-5 nights a week. Repeat a falsehood enough times with confidence and it becomes true. And the officials just get worse and worse the more we hear.

I still notice a few "botched" calls, but much fewer in the ACC/SEC/Big 10 games than in the lesser conferences. Not necessarily in every game though, and no pattern of botches (like your comment that they don't know how to call block/charge - never seen that to be true). And far more botched plays than botched calls! Far fewer botched calls since I learned the rules and official interpretations. And overall, I see a very high quality of officiating in the college ranks, and a poor quality of rules knowledge among those that comment on the game.

hawks coach,

you have just raised the integrity of officials singlehandly, you have earned the respect(tremendous) i give to you.

crew

Re: Re: Mr. HogFan: Try This One and See How Good You Are?
 

Shouldn't be too tough. The questions come up and are answered here on roughly a weekly basis.

Well, I Guess Mr. HogFan Has Exited This Board
 

Looks like he didn't accept our offer to discuss the rules pertaining to backcourt violations and three-second calls. I'm sure he still considers himself to be an expert on both, however.