FBI investigating NBA ref

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Personal opinions of others are never relevent!

How else do you judge someone's opinion in the midst of a discussion? The only way to do so is to somehow form an opinion of them, either personally or professionally. It happens all the time in politics, sports, religion, etc. In this age of information, we have to find a way to filter the baby out of the bath water before dumping the bad water down the drain. Therefore, you form the best opinion you can manage of the people offering their opinions; and judge their opinions according to their relative worth.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Ok, here's my clinician story from one of my very first camps.

I'm Lead. Ball swings quickly to the Center and A1 immediately drives to the basket. B1 gets a good piece of A1's arm on the shot. No whistle from the C. Clearly outside my primary, so I let it go. Here's my conversation with the observer:

Him: Whose call was that?
Me: The Center.
Him: Right. Did he have a call?
Me: No.
Him: Right. Did the kid get fouled?
Me: Yes.
Him: Right. What should you have done?
Me: Call the foul?
Him: (Patted me on the shoulder).

So it varies from clinician to clinician. Big surprise, right?

No worries.... Dick Bavetta learned the same thing while in the NBA. He wasn't the first and you won't be the last.

[psujaye]

(this may have already been discussed but this thread is 13 pages long)
what are everyone's thoughts on handling Donaghy references from coaches/players during a game? Quick & easy tech? i was working a middle school summer league last night and a coach said 'that's a shaving points call'. i bit my whistle on it but it was the first game i worked since the news broke, so i suspect its the first of a plethora of comments.

also- i dug through the casebook/rulebook on this one; happened to me at a camp & i didn't make a call; a player is laying across the midcourt line on the floor with control of the ball in his hands in the frontcourt (his feet are in the backcourt but not touching the floor). Can he pass it to a teammate who is clearly in the backcourt?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by psujaye

(this may have already been discussed but this thread is 13 pages long)
what are everyone's thoughts on handling Donaghy references from coaches/players during a game? Quick & easy tech? i was working a middle school summer league last night and a coach said 'that's a shaving points call'. i bit my whistle on it but it was the first game i worked since the news broke, so i suspect its the first of a plethora of comments.

What do you mean he "said" it?

Yelled it across the court? T him immediately.

Said it so only you heard it? Tell him not to be an @sshole, no one cares enough about his games to give them an over/under.

also- i dug through the casebook/rulebook on this one; happened to me at a camp & i didn't make a call; a player is laying across the midcourt line on the floor with control of the ball in his hands in the frontcourt (his feet are in the backcourt but not touching the floor). Can he pass it to a teammate who is clearly in the backcourt?

Look up the rule that says how a player gains FC status.

[psujaye]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Let me explain what I mean by that comment:

I'm at a college camp and we are in transition. I am going slot to slot opposite table and the ball is coming down the court just outside the opposite lane line from me. Well the kid gets to the hole and the defender takes a swipe at it and misses and whacks the kid right in the head. Well I wait for a whistle from lead and nothing comes. Well I blow the foul after no response from L (the ball goes in which makes it look like he doesn't get hit). I was 100% that he got hit. Well the clinician comes out and says that both the L and the T didn't see anything so why was I reaching? I was reaching cause I know with no doubt in my mind the kid got hit. I went and asked the kid just after the hoop if he got hit in the head and his exact words were, "Quite hard actually".

My point to that is the clinician was telling me to leave my partners out to dry on a play that I knew was a foul. Essentially he was telling me to let him "live or die with it" which is a philosophy I use in very rare circumstances if at all. I want to do what is right for the game, my crew, and lastly myself and in that order. I believe doing anything else or any other way is doing a disservice.

I've been told both things by different observers at camps; i've heard that you can make this call but the cadence of your whistle needs to allow for both the L & T to pick up the call first (i.e. it would be a delayed/late whistle on your part). I've also been told that since it is not the slot's primary and the L and/or T have clear looks, let them call/pass on it.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by psujaye

(this may have already been discussed but this thread is 13 pages long)
a coach said 'that's a shaving points call'.

This is a direct comment toward your integrity as an official. Its entirely up to you how you handle it from here on out, but, my opinion is if its said loud enough that I hear it on the court hes earned a T and we are shooting 2.

[psujaye]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

What do you mean he "said" it?

Yelled it across the court? T him immediately.

Said it so only you heard it? Tell him not to be an @sshole, no one cares enough about his games to give them an over/under.

Look up the rule that says how a player gains FC status.

he said it loud enough for me to hear it w/o rabbit ears. i would never call a coach an @sshole while working a game; that can't be defended at all.

I'm aware that the rule is you need the ball & both feet to have FC status, but in the case that he is lying on the floor, i was wondering if his torso would be considered his feet i.e. almost like a traveling call if he rolled over.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by psujaye

he said it loud enough for me to hear it w/o rabbit ears. i would never call a coach an @sshole while working a game; that can't be defended at all.

What's he gonna do? Tell everyone that he accused you of shaving points and then you called him an @sshole?

I'm aware that the rule is you need the ball & both feet to have FC status, but in the case that he is lying on the floor, i was wondering if his torso would be considered his feet i.e. almost like a traveling call if he rolled over.

You need to be aware of nfhs 4-35-2

[Adam]

Originally Posted by psujaye

(this may have already been discussed but this thread is 13 pages long)
what are everyone's thoughts on handling Donaghy references from coaches/players during a game? Quick & easy tech? i was working a middle school summer league last night and a coach said 'that's a shaving points call'. i bit my whistle on it but it was the first game i worked since the news broke, so i suspect its the first of a plethora of comments.

Stop this quickly with a T. This prevents it from getting out of control, and doing it early allows you to maintain your composure the rest of the game.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by psujaye

I'm aware that the rule is you need the ball & both feet to have FC status,

You need the ball and both feet to do what, exactly? All three must touch the frontcourt? In your play, the player was HOLDING the ball on the floor. You might want to look over Dan_ref's rule citation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by psujaye

he said it loud enough for me to hear it w/o rabbit ears. i would never call a coach an @sshole while working a game; that can't be defended at all.

I'm aware that the rule is you need the ball & both feet to have FC status, but in the case that he is lying on the floor, i was wondering if his torso would be considered his feet i.e. almost like a traveling call if he rolled over.

I'll break it down. When holding the ball, you only need to have something touching the front court and nothing touching the backcourt. If you're standing on one foot holding the ball, if that foot is in the front court, you're in the front court. You could be doing a half-a$$ hokey-pokey with the other leg shaking it over the back court line; you're still in the FC and so is the ball. Air space is irrelevant.
The only time three points come into play (both feet and the ball) is while dribbling.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How else do you judge someone's opinion in the midst of a discussion? The only way to do so is to somehow form an opinion of them, either personally or professionally. It happens all the time in politics, sports, religion, etc. In this age of information, we have to find a way to filter the baby out of the bath water before dumping the bad water down the drain. Therefore, you form the best opinion you can manage of the people offering their opinions; and judge their opinions according to their relative worth.

Why not just judge what they are saying instead of judging the person.

Judge me for the content of my character and not the color of my skin. Martin Luther King

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

Why not just judge what they are saying instead of judging the person.

I will keep this sports related. If a D1 official or even an accomplished NBA official is speaking on moving up the latter, I think most people would receive them differently than someone that is a lower level HS official.

Originally Posted by Old School

Judge me for the content of my character and not the color of my skin. Martin Luther King

Judging someone on their character is based largely on their accomplishments. And the nature of those accomplishments also can speak to your character.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

Why not just judge what they are saying instead of judging the person.

Judge me for the content of my character and not the color of my skin. Martin Luther King

The content of your character is partly apparent when you don't tell us where you work, who you work for, what association you are in, what your reality is. When you imply that you work a higher level than you really do, your character is very clear to all of us.

We judge what you say, and not your person, and then you get all testy and chippy. You don't say things that are not meaningful or significant for most refs who work in high school ball and have to use NFHS rules. Worse, some of the things you say are confusing or misleading to these refs. THat's not judging the person, that's judging the things you say. As you request.

And how could we possibly judge by the color of your skin when you have never been seen by any of us, and WE DON"T KNOW THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN???? In other words, judging by what you say, what you say is confusing and irrelevant (note spelling).

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Old School

Why not just judge what they are saying instead of judging the person.

Judge me for the content of my character and not the color of my skin. Martin Luther King

And this...

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me cast out the mote out of thine eye; and lo, the beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Goes on to say stuff about casting pearls before swine and looking out for wolves in sheep's clothing, good trees, bad trees..stuff like that. All somehow Old School related.

Except for the good trees of course.