Jump stop
 

The jump stop...while driving to the basket, the player picks up dribble (both feet in the air) while coming to a jump stop ... what can they do from the point they land?

NFHS rule 4-44-2(a).

Pass or shoot.

Or request time out, or foul, or commit a violation, or pivot, or smile for the photographer, or ask a cheerleader out on a date, ...

Pass, shoot or pivot

Oh yeah, all of those other things too!!!!!:D

Pivot? Not with "rule book" definition of a jump stop.

Hmm, thats right. If you leave off of one foot and land on two, then you can not pivot. If you leave off one foot and land one foot, second foot. That is a travel. So like I said said, pass or shot.

Look at the original post. The player gathers the ball while both feet are in the air. If he/she lands with both feet hitting the ground at the same time, then either foot could be the pivot.
If the post had said the player gathers the ball with one foot on the ground then jumped off that foot and landed with both feet hitting the ground at the same time..... That is the other 'Jump Stop'. There is no pivot foot in that situation.

Thanks Zoochy! You seem to have understood and and givenn me the clarification needed. I see this called wrong a lot and I was certain of what could be done or not done and I can tell by the answers here that it is just as confusing as actually seeing it for many officials

Player is driving to basket ... while still dribbling, jumps, gathers the ball (with two hands) and comes to a jump stop ... from here the player can pivot (or pass or shoot) and there has been no violation. :)

You really should read the OP and the rule book again.;)

Both those are true, except neither of those happened in the OP.

The player in the OP may pivot.

We don't know what happened in the OP. The OP only said he came to a jump stop.
If he came to a jump stop per:
4-42-a
art 1: may pivot
art 2: may pivot
art 3: not pivot

My goof was refering to a definition of a jump stop in the rules when there is none. :o

"the player picks up dribble (both feet in the air)"

We sure as heck do know.:rolleyes:

ya but, both feet in the air means nothing....it's how he lands that determines whether art 1,2 or 3 applies. The OP only defined the landing as a "jump stop".
Am I missing something or ya just messin' with me now?;)

A jump stop is both feet together, or else it wouldn't be a jump stop...the difference is how many feet were on the court when they jumped.

You want to explain this one a little deeper?

A jump stop by definition is landing with both feet at the same time.

Within the rules there are two different jump stops that are legal:

Off one foot, land on two feet and neither foot can be used as a pivot.

When the ball is secured without either foot on the floor and you land with a jump stop, either foot may be used as the pivot.

Wow, i did not realize there would be so much confusion with the OP.

Player stops dribble after they have jumped they land - jump stop (both feet at the same time - from there I was asking wha can they do - and the answer that i no know is correct is they ARE allowed to pivot.

not sure i have seen to many plays wher a payer goes off of one foot and can't pivot. Is it just me or does this not happen very often. Can someone give a clear example?

1) The confusion might lie in people using different definitions of a "jump stop". It doesn't make any nevermind anyway from the git-go. You simply follow rule 4-44-2a. No muss, no fuss, no bother. If a player lands with both feet at the same time, then either foot can be the pivot. Rule 4-44-2a(1).

2) Again, rule 4-44-2a gives you the examples. If you land on one foot which is followed then by the other foot, the first foot to land is the pivot foot. That's rule 4-44-2a(2). You can also legally land on one foot, jump off that foot and land with both feet at the same time. In that case, there is <b>no</b> pivot foot. That's rule 4-44-2a(3). That's the clear example that you wanted.

That's it. <i>Finito!</i> That's what you call for the 3 legal landings allowed to a player who lands with the ball after being completely airborne. What they do after establishing their pivot foot, or establishing whether they can legally pivot or not, now determines any subsequent traveling call.

If you completely forget about "jump stops" <i>per se</i> and simply learn the rule, you should never have a problem making the correct call.

That most common jump stop is when the dribbler end the dribble as he jumps off one foot and lands on two. It happens quite often in my games.

And where do I find that definition?

You are kidding right?

Google the words jump stop and see for yourself.:rolleyes:

No, I'm not kidding.

You said: "A jump stop by definition is landing with both feet at the same time."

I'd like a link to where you find that.

I'm 93,45% certain that it's in the NCAA rules (to be clear, they define "jump stop" as either of the moves being discussed here, but both end with landing on both feet).

What's with this French decimal point thingy?

So....you're 93 and you're 45% certain, etc.? Funny - you don't look a day over 89.635. :rolleyes:

When the ball is secured without either foot on the floor and the player simply lands on both feet, this, to my knowledge, is not considered a jump stop. When the player with both feet off the floor catches the ball, he may land on one foot, then jump off that foot and land simultaneously on both feet, but then he may not pivot. Also, I was puzzled by your phrase: "....the difference is how many feet were on the court when they jumped." When I read "feet" on the court, I pictured two, and thought perhaps you had some explanation of how a player could jump off both feet and somehow land without a violation. The problem we have around here with the "jump stop" is that players try to jump off the one foot, but they don't want to stop. Some player will catch the ball at or very near the free throw line, hesitate, leap and land with a very distinct 1,2 count and lay the ball up, then cry when a travel is called. The problem, I understand, is that many times in this situation a travel is not called.

You are reading way too much into what I wrote and the situation in question.

A jump stop is coming to a stop by landing simultaneously on two feet, don't try to make it harder than that.

Now a player moving with or without the ball that catches a ball with A) one foot on the floor, may jump off that foot and land on two, but then has no pivot foot B) has neither foot on the floor may land on both feet and have a pivot C) land on one foot, jump off it and land on two, again with no pivot.

Sorry, I was busy in my time travel adventure 45 years into the future when I wrote that post. Apparently, I will be (or is it I was?) only 45% certain of NCAA rules at that time.

after jumping off one foot.

Fine have it your way...you aren't right, but I don't give a crap.:rolleyes:

jump stop...2 words ...a jump then a stop.

Landing simultaneously on two feet is called ...uh....landing simultaneously on two feet. You can land simultaneously on two feet after running, so then it would be called "running then coming to a stop by landing simultaneously on two feet"...or a "running stop"? :cool:

Whatever....article 1,2 and 3 still applies and on #3 you have no pivot.

Then your knowledge is wrong.

BZ has tried to explain it to you over and over.

Whether jumping off one foot while ending the dribble or ending the dribble with both feet in the air, when he lands on both feet simultaneously, it is a JUMP STOP.

How he jumped simply indicates whether he can pivot or not.

It's not a new NBA rule nor is it traveling.

Since you don't officiate in the NBA, why do you care what a foul is? :)

So if that's true, then a high jump would mean the kid is high and then he jumped. :)

No, it's not two words, it's a compound word. A compound word is a combination of two or more words that function as a single unit of meaning. There are three types of compounds: closed compounds, hyphenated compounds, and open compounds. Jump stop is an example of an open compound word, such as slam dunk. It is a compund word, not two separate words.

Here endeth today's English lesson.

Says who?




;

All who aren't ignorant of the fact.

The rule book.

I did a search of the term and found it considered both ways. My particular interpretation was always that after a jump stop there is no pivot foot. I believe it has been stated here many times, (someone will correct me if I am wrong) the term jump stop does not appear in the NFHS books anywhere.
The only time I have had the term come up in games is a player or coach arguing a travel call: "No, that's a jump stop." There are different uses of the term, but how can either be considered to be wrong.

Which book? Where? HELP ME!!

At the risk of taking heat ...

It could be that different areas of the country have different definitions for the jump stop.

In my area, the NFHS definition of the Jump Stop is jumping off one foot and landing on two. That is the only context around which I have received training concerning the jump stop. I accept and understand that other areas of the country refer to the jump stop as landing on two feet.

Coach P is correct - the NFHS rule book does not define what a jump stop is specifically. And BZ, since when to we use Google to define basketball terms? We usually defer to the rule book and if it is not specifically defined therein, we accept that. The NCAA may have defined the jump stop specifically, but again, rules and simple nuances have been known to differ between the NCAA and the NFHS.

What is important is to refer to the current rule set for the game to know what is allowed and what is not allowed after getting possession of the ball.

Well said. My use and understanding of the term have always been the same as yours. I googled the term simply to find what different perceptions there were, and found that it was indeed used both ways: 1. Jumping off one foot, landing on both simultaneously 2. Simply landing on both feet simultaneously

Page 40 to be exact.

I was looking for use of the term jump stop, which is not here, even though apparently one (or more) of these is/are considered to be the definition(s) of the term.

Okay, look at it this way...why would landing simultaneously on both feet be called something different if you did it coming off one foot, or off no feet? You landed that way for the exact same reason...to be in a position of balance and in a position to be a threat.

The term itself has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether you have a travel or not, a pivot foot or not...knowing the status of their feet BEFORE they make this jump and landing is the key.

Not understanding that is the issue, not the use of the term "jump stop.":rolleyes:

Care to explain why it matters that the term is there?

Care to explain why a one foot to two feet landing is different than a no feet to two feet landing and thus needs a different term?

Care to explain why the term jump stop has anything to do with the travel rules?

Care to explain whatinthehell difference it really makes whatever they call it?

Forget about a damn "jump stop" and learn rule 4-44-2. That make the usage of the terminology "jump stop" irrelevant.

Lah me......

That's equivalent to looking for the term over the back or a reaching foul in the rule book. No such thing will be found, but one still has to know the rules regardless of the terminology.

Only to clarify that there is no "rulebook" definition of the term. Therefore neither my definition nor yours can be considered totally wrong. I thought my interpretation, which was seconded by ref in Pa, was the one recognized by "everybody." (or at least the vast majority) If this is not the case I stand corrected.

You can pivot after one but not the other.

Because players soooooo often are guilty of a traveling violation when they perform what they consider to be a "legal jump stop." I actually think we would be better off if the term would disappear, along with others we could name.

This was my point. You would not quote rule 10-whatever to define these terms. You would simply point out that theses terms are not in the book, even though we may know what a coach is asking for when he yells out the words.

I recently had a partner that used your way of thinking during games, "never heard of that coach" was his reply to the made up terminology... boy did it made for a long 4 game set. Instead of working with the coach, he choose to be smarter than he needed to be.

Of course "over the back" is nowhere to be found in the rulebook, but we all know exactly what the coach means. A simple no push or no contact there coach would do just fine.

Same for a "jump stop" when the coach wants the travel... legal movement, no violation there coach is suffice.

Rules knowledge, game management & common sense go a long way.

I didn't mean to use this when speaking to a coach. As we have all noticed by now discussions on this forum get, uh, feisty sometimes over (mis)use of different terminology. Along these lines, my question was always why do officials make such a big deal about a coach screaming "over the back" but not "walking"?

There is a huge difference between rule myths and the usage of terms like reaching in and over the back, and using ACTUAL basketball terms like jump stop, ball fake, jab step, etc.

If a sentence like, "He never lifted his pivot foot coach, that was all one foot," can be replaced by, "That's a jab step coach." How does that hurt?

The key is to know the rules and be able to best communicate what was or wasn't called and why, in as concise a manner as possible.

Seems there are as many "plumbers" on this forum as I see on the court.

Why make things harder than they need to be?

Not sure what a jab step is either. Not likely to knock anyone out, but may help you to win a decision? :D


Seriously, this has been largely a discussion about nothing, which is largely my fault. The important thing is rules knowledge and careful use of terms, whether they are in the book or not. I, personally, will try to refrain from using the term jump stop at all in the future.

NCAA 4-42 Jump Stop

That's no different than what's been said here. Why can't you guys get that through your head?

A dribbler jumps off one foot and lands on two feet. That's a JUMP STOP.

If he ends his dribble with his foot on the floor, he cannot pivot.

If he ends the dribble after he jumps, he can pivot.

But both are JUMP STOPS.

But according to you guys, if a player jumps, ends his dribble while airborne and then lands with both feet simultaneously, it's not a jump stop.

If it's not a jump stop, what the hell is it?

The easiest thing to say to a coach is "It was indeed a jump stop, but it was the illegal version." Or some such. "Yes, but it wasn't a legal jump stop." That takes the argument away from the terminology, and gets to the heart of the rule, which most coaches don't understand. As BBR said, it matters only WHEN the ball was gathered (or the dribble ended), NOT what the name of the maneuver is.

Nope, the two easiest things to say imo are:
1) Coach, that's traveling.
2) Coach, that isn't traveling.

I agree with this response. Trying to explain much else is usually useless to a coach.

Peace

Again, in my area of the country, the teaching for NFHS refs that I have experienced, has only defined the "jump stop" as jumping off one foot and landing on two - using this term as a situation when player may no longer pivot. Maybe we are still in the Stone Age up here. All I was doing was clarifying that the term "Jump Stop" seems to have different connotations in different parts of our nation. Thank you for the education on the broader definition of the term. I will do my best to have the other refs in my area begin thinking along this line. :D

IIRC, when the term was first used, this is how REFS defined it; COACHS defined it as gathering the ball in the air and landing on both feet". Thus, the confusion.

In general now, the term is used in both ways.

Actually the "jump stop" is always legal, it's the players movement after the jump stop is complete (either variety) which makes it a legal play or not.

As long as it's correctly executed....
I've called a few travels on the "jump stop" when a player "alights" from one foot but the two feet do not land simultaneously.

So you're saying that if the dribbler catches the ball with both feet off the ground they may land on two feet or one followed by the other but if the dribble is ended with one foot on the floor they may only land on two feet?

Is that what 4-44-2b is saying :o

I stand corrected rainmaker, the "illegal jump stop" Snaqwells described would look awfully weird but I guess where there's a will there's a way.

All of you are making this way too hard. Coaches(lute Olson, Ralph Miller, Tex Winter and John Wooden come to mid) teach 2 types of jump stops. 1) a one count jump stop( opon landing you may pivot shoot or pass or even execute a step through move where the pivot foot can be lifted) 2) a Two count jump stop(opon landing you have no pivot foot and may shoot or pass or lift one foot to shoot or pass) This terminology, one and two count jump stop while not in the current rulebook has been taught by some of the best coaches since at least the 1930s, and I believe the terms were in the rulebook at one time.60s

Many high school referees call the first example a travel because "it looks like a travel" and because most players at that level can"t execute the move in a leagal manner and it is a travel.

As a ref if you explain it that way most coaches worth having a discussion with will know exactly what you are talking about if they don't you most likely will be wasting your breath no matter what you say.

Wow, this doesn't help me. Then again, I understand the concepts well. You're a little bit wrong on #2, though. The player may pick up either or both feet as long as neither one touches the floor after going up and before the player legally relinquishes player control.

#1 (the 2nd jump stop everyone is talking about), to me, is just a landing. Rebounders do it all the time. The only difference is that with the "jump stop," players are typically moving horizontally as they gather the ball. The definition of this particular move is really not needed in the part of the rule book describing the other jump stop.

What I mean is, the "catch-and-land" jump stop is legal even without this reference. The "catch-leap-and-land" jump stop is not legal without this particular portion of the rules.

The "one count" and "two count" explanations aren't going to help. Coaches who know what it is will either leave you alone or they saw it differently. If an explanation is warranted and time allows, just tell them what they did specifically to warrant the call.

1) We're making it too hard? I don't have a clue what you're talking about in either #1 or #2. It's confusing as hell. Are you talking about landing on both feet simulaneously in #1, and in #2 landing on one foot followed by the other, or landing on one foot and jumping onto both feet simultaneously?

2) Disagree completely. Do you have any statistics that will back up that statement?

The funny part about this is that in both cases the player is almost always jumping off of one foot and landing on two, the difference is where they gathered or caught the ball...some of us are just able to recognize this, some apparently not.;)

Jurassic Referee

Very simple, with a one count jump stop you land on two feet at the same time and you have a pivot still available. A two count jump stop you land on two feet at the same time and dont have a piviot foot available. In your question you thought #2 may reefer to landing on one foot followed by the other, that would be a stride stop, not a jump stop. We could open a whole new can of worms describing the legal footwork allowed after a stride stop depending of course when the and how the ball was gathered but.....

as far as stats none, just personal experience watching high school games in LA. Even with clear knowledge of the rules it can be a tough call because the game moves so fast.

This one's easy and simple. First foot down after the ball is gathered is the pivot. Now, see pivot rules for traveling.

1) I hate to tell you this, pitchfork, but that statement makes absolutely zero sense. Both cases that you cited are the exact same--->in both, the player is landing on both feet at the same time. But......in one, you say that the player has a pivot foot, but they don't have one in the other. Again, the rules, both NCAA and NFHS, are very explicit. If you land on both feet simultaneously, you can pivot on either foot.

2) Again, what can of worms? This play is also covered very explicitly under both NCAA and NFHS rules. The first foot that the player lands on is <b>always</b> the pivot foot.

Both of those calls are easy, as long as an official reads and understands the rules. A good official will have no problems at all with them. Those rules haven't changed in the last 50 years either, no matter what some people might want to call them.

CORRECT. If he lands one foot after another, it's traveling.

WTF does a "count" have to do with it?

Personally, I couldn't care less whether the coach understands it or not. I ain't having that convo. :)

Exactly what I was telling Ref from PA above. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...s/thumbsup.gif

Boy, a video image of what is legal and illegal here would be great. Anyone out there have the abilty to film what is legal and what is not and post it on the web somewhere?

From the NCAA clarification in 2004-5:
Actually, this is inaccurate, too, but since it's the NCAA definition, those under NCAA jurisdiciton will have to live with it.

A "jump stop" actually refers to the stop, not to the whole move as described above. The alternative method of stopping is the "stride stop", where one foot lands then the other. Both stops can be executed whether on offense or defense, with or without the ball. Since the "Pro Hop" move incorporates a "jump stop" within the move, the "Pro Hop" has become known as a "jump stop", although this terminology is confusing and ambiguous.

"It's a dessert topping AND a floor wax." -SNL.

1) I agree that nearly everybody is making this too hard.

2) I don't think the one-count/two-count terminology makes it any easier. That's NBA terminology. I have to admit that I never played college ball, but I've never heard any college coach use that terminology. Even if it is a coaching term, that doesn't mean we should adopt it. No coach ever said to me "That's a good two-count stop!" after a travel call.

3) Officials simply need to learn the rule, without worrying about whether the move is technically a "jump stop" or not.

(a) Catch the ball in the air, and land on two feet -- either foot is the pivot;
(b) catch the ball in the air and land on one foot followed by the second foot -- the first foot is the pivot;
(c) catch the ball in the air and land on one foot, jump and land on two feet -- no pivot.

That's all any official needs to know.

4) I agree that this is called very inconsistently at the high school level.