Do we need this mechanic?
 

I just read the changes for next year. One of the mechanics has us holding both arms out if there isn't a closely guarded situation. Supposedly this is to let coaches know if it isn't obvious.

I thought we already had something that communicated this. A five second count if they are, none if they aren't.

Rita

Rita, it can't hurt.

You've never run into a situation where an explicit "I'm not counting because the defender isn't close enough" signal wouldn't have helped? If communication is our best tool for managing coaches, then a new help in communicating can't be a bad thing, can it?

What if we have an official that is not paying attention (I know this would NEVER happen...but, humor me). Wouldn't the communication be the same, the official not having a count, even though there could indeed be a closely guarded situation?

This new signal just shows the coaches/fans/evaluators/etc. that the official is on top of the play...and he/she does indeed have a count or does not have a count because of the six feet guarding requirement.

I didn't use this signal before(well, almost never) ;)...but, if in our judgement we can communicate better with this signal...why not?

It is a great mechanic. There have been many times I wish we had this mechanic during HS games. And it is not always obvious you should have a 5 second count, but coaches and players will claim that you should have a count and this mechanic gives them a reason. There are many times a defender is just standing there and doing nothing. You now can communicate to the world why you do not have a count instead of it looking like you just are incompetent.

Peace

I agree with everyone.

The extended arms is a modified *shrug* [ http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/fr...smiley-013.gif ] which indicates that since the maximum 6' is imperfectly defined, the officials aren't quite sure, and therefore, the coaches shouldn't be certain of the rule either.

I actually wonder what took so long to bring it to HS.

CT Mechanic
 

IAABO has used this mechanic in Connecticut for several years. Previous to this, coaches would occassionally yell to us "Five seconds". Since we starting using this mechanic several years ago, we seldom hear this from coaches.

FYI, in 2006-07, "special" Connecticut mechanics included:
Arms extended not closely guarded signal.
Point to floor for two-point field goal try.
No long switches when foul is called in the backcourt and there is no change of possession or direction.
Team members are not allowed to congregate at midcourt during introductions.
Coaching Box must be marked. If home coach and/or home management refuse to designate coaching box with tape, the home team will not use a coaching box for that game. However, the visiting team will be allowed a coaching box. Notify Board Secretary or Commissioner the next day.

I don't purport to be an expert on "standard" FED mechanics, but:

"Point to floor" -- always, or only when it's close to the three-point line? If it's the latter, then I don't think it's a "special" mechanic.

"No Long switches" -- If there is a change of posession, then you switch? IF so, that's unusual. MOst would have no long switches on any such occurrence, or switch on every foul.

"Team members congregating" and "Coaching Box" are rules, not mechanics.

No different from the FED, although many don't enforce it.

Also, this isn't a mechanic.

Only when it's close.

So A just scored, B is bringing the ball up-court and B1 commits a PC foul right around A's FT line. You don't switch in a two-person crew?

I thought NFHS recommended that each state come up with procedures for congregating before the game. Also, the CT state procedure specifies what should be done when a coaching box isn't present.

Don't like it? Don't move to our state. :p

When the NCAA/CAA added this signal a number of years ago, I thought it was the dumbest, stupidest, most idiotic signal that was ever adopted. I have never used it in a college game or an AAU girls' game because if I am not counting, it means that there is no closing guarded situation. AND, I do not plan to ever use it in a H.S. game or any game using NFHS rules.

MTD, Sr.

The state that Bob and I belong to have their own procedures as to how to deal with players near the center area during pre-game introductions and the coaching box enforcement. The home team is allowed the center court area during pre-game introductions and if a team has a special celebration like a school called the Quincy High School Blue Devils, a school can get a waiver from the IHSA to allow a waiver from the normal rule.

Also the coaching box was a major issue a couple of years ago. The IHSA wanted us to enforce rule very strictly and to give Ts to help enforce the strict rule. Well they have now back off a little but still have a heavy emphasis to coaching staying completely in the box.

BTW, here is an example of a pre-game celebration. I was actually working this game but this school got a waiver to use this introduction from the IHSA. According to NF rules this would be outlawed.

Quincy High School Pre-Game introduction

Peace

Interesting. What about trying to maintain consistency between officials' signals on the court? Do you believe that all officials should have the flexibility to put aside or add signals according to their opinion?

To me, this mechanic is more useful to the players on the court. Both the defender and ball handler can see whether or not the count is on without explicitly looking at the official.

If the players are on your right and you are counting with your left hand, it's difficult for them to see if you simply drop you left hand to your side indicating that the count is off.

Oh, my !

To me, if the ball handler is actually being closely-guarded, that player will be a bit busy to worry about whether the ref is counting or not, ... no matter which hand the ref is using.
As the defender, I don't care what the ref is doing. The other guy has *my ball* and I want it back.

Good ball players are well aware of the count. As a ref, you've never had a player look your direction to see if you had a count?

This happens all the time !
Practical signals get added because officials are using them.
Silly mechanics get dropped because officials refuse to use them.

Correct.
Never.
Who's he guarding if he's lookin' at me? :)

The none if they aren't is the problem. In HS and NCAA Men's, coaches teach playing defense and the referee's must officiate it. In NCAA Women and the NBA, there is no such thing as a closely guarded count on the dribbler. IMHO, I believe this hurts the NCAA Women's game not having it but I guess it was being called too much that led them to dismiss it.

I have had coaches come apart at the seams expecting this call. Sometimes so bad I had to ignore them to keep from giving them the T. If I used the spread-arm mechanic, I was accused of using college mechanics in a HS game. The athleticism of the players has reached the college level now in HS. Ironically, in my college games, I seldom have to use it because they swing the ball so fast and the shot clock makes them shoot. Not so in HS.

Remember, closely guarded is measure at the feet and not the arms. Good mechanic to help manage the coaches.

I see your point, but it is usually the coach behind the official that is yelling for this. Several times this summer alone the coach is yelling to the ball handler about whether I have a count or not which he is telling his player to move or pass the ball.

Mark, if you do not like the mechanic, do not use the mechanic. I do not think anyone is going to be upset with you. The mechanic is just another way to communicate a situation. Just not counting does not always communicate why you are not counting.

We really are making this harder than it needs to be.

Peace

Agree. It can't hurt. It might help. It ain't no biggie.

NFHS Citation Please
 

From Billy MaC: "Team members are not allowed to congregate at midcourt during introductions."

From BktBllRef: "No different from the FED, although many don't enforce it."

BktBallRef: NFHS citation please. Thanks.

I'm glad it's here. It's a useful tool for communication. I used it from time to time before... not all of the time by any means, but it lets a coach who wants the closely guarded know that you aren't day dreaming or not paying attention. It communicates that you see exactly what is going on and you're making a judgement. It also can send a message to the coach to get his defenders closer to the ball handler if he wants the count. Have I ever had a player look over at me as was asked before? Never, nor I do I expect to have this happen. It would be poor judgement on the part of either the defender or ball handler.

That'll get 'em fired up :) I wonder if they installed fireproof nets?

This is true.

That's why I asked
 

To be honest, I haven't really had many coaches say anything about closely guarded. I haven't felt the need for the mechanic. Of course, as of yet, I've done few varsity games. That may be the difference.

Soooo, I guess I'll give it a try. One more signal to worry about using.

Rita

You are lucky

I defiantly would not worry about using this mechanic or go out my way to use it. Just know that it's there to help communicate what you are judging, if you need it. Sort of like the bird dog signal. You don't have to bird dog but at times, it helps to communicate your judgement. Communication (as the wise man once said) is the key to successful officiating.

Have a nice day

Coaches at the varsity level do tend to complain more about the closely guarded issue. That is because they are more knowledgeable about the game. JV and lower level coaches are more concerned about 3 seconds and why his or her player was not awarded a foul call for dribbling through all 5 people. Do not worry about it. ;)

Peace

I don't worry about it as a coach...if I see them counting at any given time, I know they are paying attention.

Now, about getting the lead to do a visual "3 second count".....:)

CP - I'm pretty sure you're being at least a little facetious, but I've heard that idea before, from both coaches and officials, in casual conversation.

1. The lead isn't the only person in 2 person, 3 person, NCAA W and NCAA M that is responsible for players in the lane.
2. It would be impossible to account for multiple players being in the lane who've entered at different times.

I'm pretty sure I was being a LOT facetious...:D

Re: #2 Yeah, I've noticed that also!:D

The visual three second count has been in existence for many years. It's just that nobody wants to count it :D

You could sit down and use both arms and both legs. If all five players came into the lane at different times, you'd have to come up with one more appendage to use to count. I guess this would leave Juulie out. :p

I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say we don't need to guess on that.

Actually, you try this and it will chase me out of the gym!!

:eek: <i></i>

But if I tried this, what would I do about my compression shorts?

I know, I know - too much information. :rolleyes:

I suspect that this signal will be more useful if there has been a count and it has stopped because the defender is no longer within 6 feet of the player with the ball, for example. It is clearer than just stopping the count. I don't think there is much of a need to use this when there's defensive indifference.

BTW, I like the imagery of the shrug mechanic. Imagine NFHS putting this in their chart!