Would You Mind Taking A Pay Cut To Add A Third Official To Your Games?

[JRutledge]

in Illinois working 3 Person is old hat. I have been working 3 Person in varsity games for 5 years. The only thing is that many of the schools have the officials do both games. Which really I do not have complete problem with because it gets you ready and get the kinks out for the varsity contest. But the Chicago area schools usually only allow you to do one game.

So in many ways, we take a big cut to do 3 person. Take away all the money they would pay the JV officials and then the varsity officials, the schools come out ahead having all 3 officials doing both games. But I enjoy doing them and would not trade them. It makes you a better official.

Peace

[Love2ref4Ever]

To the official in Texas,Rice High School is From my neighborhood and I guess you see some of the stuff we have to deal with.I am sure you enjoyed that 7"3 junior they have and they are just one of the better teams here in New York City.

[BOBBYMO]

In Nebraska.... all games are 2 man in high school.Some of the bigger schools would be better off getting a 3 man crew.

[zebraman]

We do 2-person here in Washington State. We get paid about half of what you get for varsity games in New York! Based on that, I don't think many of our refs would want to take even less pay and add the third ref. But that's just my guess.

The reasons I have heard for not going to 3-man are:

1) Not enough officials already. Lots of us are already doing 2 (and sometimes even 3) games on Fridays to get all the games covered.

2) School budgets.

Z

[Bart Tyson]

Would it do any good to have a representitive to your association communicate with other associations that have 3 person crews? I probably should assume associations that still have 2 person crews have made many efferts. For years the state would say they didn't have enough experienced officials who have worked 3 person games to have 3 person crews for post season. I knew a lot of good officials whom not only were experienced but also did college games. Part of the reason is the coaches still vote on officials for post season. Every year the state receives votes for officials who are not officiating or who have died or have moved years ago or have not worked their games.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

I know that, for my high school at least, the coach didn't want 3 officials because that would lead to more off-ball fouls, and he had an incredibly short bench.

This month's Referee mag had a stat that showed going to
3 man did not result in more fouls per average game over
a long time (can't recall the details). I believe them.

[Love2ref4Ever]

On the down side to this topic is, myself being a camp person all of the camps I attend are the officials camps with a emphasis on three person mechanics.Now I attend at least three camps over the summer to stay sharp on my three person mechanics and when I return to my area there are not much games being assigned to myself with 3 person crews.Now the up side to this topic is when there is a need for officials who know the 3 person mechanics I am one of the officials that have a chance of being assigned to that paticular game.

[Mark Dexter]

I definately believe that, on average, there were no more fouls. However, we had certain rivals, against whom there was quite a bit of contact all over the court. This type of game needs a third official, but we never got one because it would result in fouling out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by JRutledge
So in many ways, we take a big cut to do 3 person. Take away all the money they would pay the JV officials and then the varsity officials, the schools come out ahead having all 3 officials doing both games. But I enjoy doing them and would not trade them. It makes you a better official.

Peace

I'm not sure that's true, Jeff.

(Chicago Suburb's; typical rates; note that Illinois plays the Soph game as the Prelim game)

Old Way: 2 Soph Officials @ $38 = $76
2 Varsity Officials @ $48 = $96
$76 + $96 = $172

New Way: 3 Officials @ $70 = $210

Even if you meant 2 soph plus 3 varisty, that comes to $220 -- not a big cut, and they did increase the fees for the frosh double headers a lot, so the total item for "officiating fees" probably went up.

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob jenkins

[i]

I'm not sure that's true, Jeff.

(Chicago Suburb's; typical rates; note that Illinois plays the Soph game as the Prelim game)

Old Way: 2 Soph Officials @ $38 = $76
2 Varsity Officials @ $48 = $96
$76 + $96 = $172

New Way: 3 Officials @ $70 = $210

Even if you meant 2 soph plus 3 varisty, that comes to $220 -- not a big cut, and they did increase the fees for the frosh double headers a lot, so the total item for "officiating fees" probably went up.

Bob,

I am really not talking about the Chicago area. I do not know many Chicago area conferences that have you do both games.

I have done games outside the Chicago area as high as $65 for two games with 3 Officials. That is $195. I might add, sometimes you are lucky to get that.

Now if they pay, $30 for two officials at $60 for the JV game. And they you pay the varsity officials $45 for 3 officials at $195, you have the same price.

But the problem is, you might not get any school (downstate) to pay $45 at all. You might be lucky if you only get $40. And I have done JV games for $25 dollars several times.

These prices are what it used to be. And now I get about $60 for 3 officials and that is $180 for that school for 2 games. Now that is not costing that much money.

[Love2ref4Ever]

There was a public school high school game here in New York City (Brooklyn) Saturday night.This game was between two of the strongest teams in New York City and it was played at St. Francis College. The coach of one of the teams (with the lead) pulled his team off the court with under four minutes remaining in the game as a result of numerous technical fouls against both teams. There was also stoppage of play on one flagrant technical foul as a result of both teams nearly clearing there benches.The coach that pulled hs team off of the court never let his team return after another stoppage of play.This time it was because two girls started fighting behind one teams bench.Now today on a website http://www.NyNjHighhoops.com a writer blamed the entire situation on the officials.Need I say this game only had two officials assigned to it!

[mick]

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
There was a public school high school game here in New York City (Brooklyn) Saturday night.This game was between two of the strongest teams in New York City and it was played at St. Francis College. The coach of one of the teams (with the lead) pulled his team off the court with under four minutes remaining in the game as a result of numerous technical fouls against both teams. There was also stoppage of play on one flagrant technical foul as a result of both teams nearly clearing there benches.The coach that pulled hs team off of the court never let his team return after another stoppage of play.This time it was because two girls started fighting behind one teams bench.Now today on a website http://www.NyNjHighhoops.com a writer blamed the entire situation on the officials.Need I say this game only had two officials assigned to it!

Check that address, Love2.

[Mark Dexter]

I think the address is:
http://hometown.aol.com/nycnjhoops/index.htm

[Love2ref4Ever]

Thank you Mark Dexter for posting the correct website address for me. Guy I would also like you to visit this excellent site at http/groups.aol.com/bsktblloffcl it's a good way to keep up with officials from the New York area.

[Larks]

Well, for me, working 3-man would be a pay increase since I'm still Ohio Class 2 (Must do JV or lower). So my comment: 3-man sounds just fine.

Larks - Veteran In Training