1. what age are you guys?
2. how long have you officiated?
3. what is your highest level basketball game?

1. 30
2. 3
3. varsity

(1) 18
(2) 5th year on clock/book
1st year on court
(3) Intramurals

Experience
 

1. 26 Years old
2. 5 Years
3. College (JUCO, NAIA, DII, DI, and summer semi-pro United States Basketball League)

1.32
2. 6 (3 yrs then out 5 then back in another state)
3. HS varsity

In-experience
 

1. 40
2. 3 yrs
3. Varsity (Several Games this year)

1. 38
2. 7 years HS Boys coach
2 years Officiating
3. JV Boys/Girls

1. 42
2. 13 years officiating.
3. Varsity

1. 20
2. 2nd Year High School Ball
3. First Varsity Tomorrow

1. 371 in dog years
2. all freakin day sometimes
3. 3rd floor gym

1. 47 (but people tell me I look 45)
2. 3 years in Vancouver, WA and 2 in So. Cal
3. HS Varsity

Congrats! Remember to have fun! ;)

1. 26
2. 15
3. Junior International between NSW Under 16's and New Zealand Under 16's

Tony,
I've seen Bergy work the hardwoods and the diamonds.
He's solid and a pleasure.
mick

Thanks Mick,

The respect is mutual. Someday down the road here I'd be happy to work with you.

Bergy

1) 45
2) 9 years
3) NCAA DII

Does this meant that you are not ready to work with mick NOW? :D

1. 34
2. 8yrs.
3. Varsity

1. 49
2. 3
3. Girl's Varsity (1game) nearby school had a cancellation.

Thanks Mick,

The respect is mutual. Someday down the road here I'd be happy to work with you.

Bergy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Does this meant that you are not ready to work with mick NOW?

I suppose I would. Mick seems to get a lot of weird things in his games though. ;)

Bergy is ready, but we're 100 miles apart. ;)

1. 40
2. 7
3. Varsity

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Camron Rust
[B]

Isn't everybody U.P.there?:D:

Good call, JR.
Next week I have two games at 115 miles, and one game at 11 miles.
mick

1. 45 yrs old
2. 3rd season (two calendar years)
3. JV (some var off-season)

23
5th season
d1

What was the Question?
 

51 (Be careful I'm kinda sensitive and don't take criticism well)

18 Years

Varsity (Aspiring to work games in So. California's retirement communities)

Crew, being just a year or two older than some of the players, do you have any problems doing college ball? I must admit, that's one of my biggest challenges to doing HS varsity (although some of the IM players would be shocked if they knew they were at a game officiated by an all-freshman crew).

mark d.,
i get challenged quite a bit because of my age(all levels). overall my supervisor has done a great job putting me with officials that give me credibility(very important). after the coaches have seen me a time or 2 i think that they accept me. yes, it is very challenging, but the partners that i work with allow me to take double whistles to the table and back me up when i take a contraversial(sp?) call to the table. what does IM stand for?

College Intramurals. I think the quality of play and sportsmanship is even worse than some rec ball.

college intramurals is a great place to work on new mechanics(pointing out of bounds signal, instead of hand up then point-knowing bonus situations-and eliminating bad habits). though it is hard to work on giving fewer techs (from my exp) at those games. frat teams are just plain dicks.

I tend to work for the opposite on OOB's, because that's the NF mechanic. I don't think I'll quite pull a Ted Valentine and be called up to D-I next year (although I did have a dream that I was - a good sign, perhaps? ;))

I know what you mean about frat teams (although they're worse in soccer). My worst team this year was the one where I gave the 3 T's resulting in ejection. Team name? Vas Deferens.

Mark, if you plan to work high school basketball, do not develop the habit of pointing on an OOB play without first raising your hand and stopping the clock. This is a college mechanic and has no place in the high school game.

how should someone practice for the next level if he doesnt practice the mechanic. highschool games(florida) are the best place acquire the skills for the next level. if being the best highschool ref. is your goal, then dont practice the mechanic. as it appears mark d. has ambitions above the highschool level bktballref.

I'll chime in here...
 

An official should use the mechanic based on the level they are officiating. If Mark is only doing intramurals and has yet to work a HS game, why should he be polishing his college mechanics? This attitude (showboating some call it) will get you nowhere with your peers and those that are evaluating you at the HS level. Mark, perfect one level before worrying about another.

High school games are not practice for college. Officials who use college mechanics in high school games are looked down upon by every supervisor that I know and also by our state deputy director, who is a college official. Practice college mechanics at camps and in summer leagues. Once again, they have no place in the high school game.

It doesn't take practice to not raise your hand.

He goes it.
 

1. 29
2. 6 years
3. Div. 3, NAIA and JUCO College--1st Year. But I have had a full varsity HS schedule for 5 years (including this year).

1. 27
2. 11 Years
3. Junior College

Hey just a quick comment on those people who are so critical of not using the college mechanics. They are usually the ones who either can't get hired onto the college level or were fired because they couldn't handle it. Do your best to call at the level you are on. Rarely do I raise my hand on an oob play in a high school game. I usually just point the way we are going. And for those who say, "oh my!" get real! The game is changing get on the band wagon or get off. Because it will soon be changed in high school.

1. 37
2. 5
3. HS Varsity
Woodland Park, CO 8500 ft. Beats third floor!

[Edited by Tim Roden on Jan 3rd, 2002 at 11:33 PM]

Well, usually doesn't apply here. I've never tried to get hired at the college level, so it's impossible for me to have been fired from the college level. Had I started officiating at an earlier age, it might have been something I would have pursued. At this stage in my life, I simply don't have time or the job for it.

As for the mechanic being changed at the HS level, if they change it, then it should be used. Until then, the required mechanics should be used. So, get on the band wagon or get off. :)

Give me a break
 

I am so sick of that bullcrap. If it was going to change, it would have already. If you are doing a HS game, do HS mechanics or do not do the game. It is not changing like you think it is. I understand that some things have more to do with style, but do not tell me that crap that things are changing.

I had a D1 Women's official tell me that the Lead signaling 3 point shots was coming to the HS level. Well that is interesting, they already do what the Men's College does, so why is the Women's game so special that they will change to that? Put your ego aside and act like you want to be at the level that you are officiating. I do both HS and College, believe me it is not that difficult to adjust to the level that you are at. If I can do it, so can you.

Peace

Pretty bold generalization there, big guy. Use the mechanic that is applicable to the level you are officiating at. The officiating profession doesn't have much room for egos like yours.

I never use college mechanics. If they haven't graduated yet, they can't work on my car!

<b>Originally posted by Spaman_29

Hey just a quick comment on those people who are so critical of not using the college mechanics. They are usually the ones who either can't get hired onto the college level or were fired because they couldn't handle it.
Do your best to call at the level you are on. Rarely do I raise my hand on an oob play in a high school game. I usually just point the way we are going. And for those who say, "oh my!" get real! The game is changing get on the band wagon or get off. Because it will soon be changed in high school. </b>

Yikes...I've never had much fun working with "my way or highway partners." Use college mechanics during high school games around here and you'll never get a playoff game. When in Rome, do as the Romans.

Z

What? Once again, Mark Padgett just has to chime in with something crazy :).

I never thought that working on using HS/College mechanics would cause such a ruckus. What I've always been taught is that to move up to the next level, you should show that you're proficient in the level you currently work. I'm trying to work on HS mechanics, because I will definately have those games before I get NCAA games.

multiple mechanics
 

JRut,

Changing the subject just a bit........since you have now had a smattering of HS, men's NCAA and womens's NCAA all in the same year, do you ever have problems differentiating between the different mechanics and rules from night to night?

This can be a problem....what do you do (above and beyond a good pregame) to make sure that you are in the right mode for the evening?

In my neck of the woods ("greater" NYC) the HS mechanic is
used during HS games (raise hand on OOB). Every once in
a while a "just point" will slip in, but usually not. You
are expected to use the mechanics for the game you're
working. And IMO it will be a long time before this
mechanic is taken out of the HS book. It might never even
happen.

Re: multiple mechanics
 

Not really. I only have about 8 games that are college this year. I still had scheduled about 50 HS games so it really is not that hard. The rules are really not that difficult to understand from one level to another. And I have not had any Ts or any really unusual things happen yet at the college level so there has been no rules applications that I would have a problem with. And mechanically, Men's NCAA and NF do things almost the same. Women's NCAA does things so differently as it relates to coverage and things like that, that when I do a Women's game, I do alot of reading the night and the day before the game.

It really is not that hard at all. You just have to spend time trying to understand the differences. Once you understand them, moving back and forth is like driving a car one day, and driving an SUV the other day. If you have done both, it is like riding a bike to a certain extent.

Peace

32 years old 11 years officiating High school and college. {I have my 1st d-2 game tonight!!}

1. 28
2. 10 years
3. NCAA D-II

I agree with JRut and all the others who have stated that you must use the approved mechanics at the level you're working. BTW - not stopping the clock is NOT AN APPROVED mechanic in the CCA manual. According to the CCA manual, officials are still to stop the clock, then point. I know that most supervisors don't have a problem with their officials just pointing, but even if you're working college ball, you should make sure that is an approved mechanic in your conference(s).

Jake

OH I love a little controversy. I couldn't wait to get to work to see what ruckus was going to come out of the woodworks. It sure does get people to respond who don't normally open their mouth. Keep it up, plus I really don't have that big of an ego I just like to stir the pot and see what comes up.

BOBBYMO
 

ATTA BOY!!! Let us know how it went!

1. 38
2. 2yrs (And a-heck-of-a-lot-a Rec ball. Can I get extra credit?) :)
3. Just had my first couple of HS varsity assignments. What a blast!

Mike

[Edited by Mike Burns on Jan 4th, 2002 at 02:01 PM]

age and experience
 

Age 62
Experience 4yr
A few varsity games but mostly JV boys and girls
A great way to stay in shape and have fun

Re: age and experience
 

Good job!

Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

Sorry, Jake, but that's not correct. I have my 2002 NCAA rule/interpretation book in front of me. In the back section, where all the signals are shown, it lists all the signals for violations. It shows the official stopping the clock and then a "+" and then the signal for traveling, palming, etc.

However, there is an asterisk at the bottom of the "violations" box that says: "There is no stop clock signal before an out-of-bounds violation".

Seems pretty clear that not stopping the clock is an approved mechanic for NCAA, both men's and women's.

Am I misreading it?

Chuck

age and experience
 

Age 62
Experience 4yr
A few varsity games but mostly JV boys and girls
A great way to stay in shape and have fun

Re: Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

However, there is an asterisk at the bottom of the "violations" box that says: "There is no stop clock signal before an out-of-bounds violation". Seems pretty clear that not stopping the clock is an approved mechanic for NCAA, both men's and women's.

Well, I re-read Jake's post and realized that he specifically mentioned the CCA manual. So after I typed my last post, I went and got my manual. It specifically says that the official is supposed to stop the clock on OOB calls (chart, page 47). And then in the back, where it shows all the signals, it does not have the same note that I mentioned from the rulebook.

So maybe I don't owe Jake an apology, exactly, but I'm not as obviously right as I thought I was.

What's everybody else's take on this? I know that I don't stop the clock in my college games, but this is only my first year of varsity. :confused:

Chuck

experience
 

1. 20
2. 5th year
3. varsity

To you young guys (-25) that are doing college, where do you live, and how have you climbed the ladder so quickly. In southern California, it takes a lot of time to start doing college ball.

Re: Re: Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias Quote: However, there is an asterisk at the bottom of the "violations" box that says: "There is no stop clock signal before an out-of-bounds violation". Seems pretty clear that not stopping the clock is an approved mechanic for NCAA, both men's and women's. Well, I re-read Jake's post and realized that he specifically mentioned the CCA manual. So after I typed my last post, I went and got my manual. It specifically says that the official is supposed to stop the clock on OOB calls (chart, page 47). And then in the back, where it shows all the signals, it does not have the same note that I mentioned from the rulebook. So maybe I don't owe Jake an apology, exactly, but I'm not as obviously right as I thought I was. What's everybody else's take on this? I know that I don't stop the clock in my college games, but this is only my first year of varsity. :confused: Chuck

Chuck -

I just got back from lunch and read both your posts. You sure are right that on BR-145 of the 2002 NCAA Rules book it says "*There is no stop clock signal before an out-of-bounds violation." I guess that emphasizes the point of my original post, which is,

make sure you understand your supervisors expectations. If the Collegiate Commissioners Association manual which,

"...has been adopted by the NCAA Men's Basketball rules committees as the official basketball officials manual for collegiate officiating," says one thing and the NCAA rules book says something that is condratictory (sp?) then an official should find out what his/her supervisor wants.

Please note too, that the CCA Manual to which I was refering is the Men's 3-person manual. I'm not sure if the women's side uses the CCA Manual or if there is a similar book for NCAA women's mechanics. So in all fairness, I should have stated that in my original post.

Thanks Chuck!

Jake

Re: Re: Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias Quote: However, there is an asterisk at the bottom of the "violations" box that says: "There is no stop clock signal before an out-of-bounds violation". Seems pretty clear that not stopping the clock is an approved mechanic for NCAA, both men's and women's. Well, I re-read Jake's post and realized that he specifically mentioned the CCA manual. So after I typed my last post, I went and got my manual. It specifically says that the official is supposed to stop the clock on OOB calls (chart, page 47). And then in the back, where it shows all the signals, it does not have the same note that I mentioned from the rulebook. So maybe I don't owe Jake an apology, exactly, but I'm not as obviously right as I thought I was. What's everybody else's take on this? I know that I don't stop the clock in my college games, but this is only my first year of varsity. :confused: Chuck

I am pretty sure "it" is optional.
mick

Re: Re: Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

I know NCAA rulebook has the exception listed with the OOB signal.

This is just personal preference, but I think raising the hand to "stop the clock" then pointing looks better.

Re: Re: Re: Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

D1 guy on my IAABO board (he does Ivy and Patriot Leagues, plus a lot of A-10) told me not to do it, b/c it makes me look like a "f******g traffic cop".

You say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-to.

Chuck

Re: Re: Re: Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

I am pretty sure the option is owned by the assignor.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

Does this mean that we get to play hangman now? :)

f****ng

your turn

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

f*r**ng

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

r??? WTF?

1. 18
2. 2nd year certified; but officiated CYO 4 years prior
3. JV

Re: Re: Re: Probably should be a new thread, but. . .
 

Guys, there is a CCA Manual for both. The Men's has one and the Women's has one. The Men's says to use stop clock for violations, but it is optional for out of bounds calls. Women's does not want you to use it at all for out of bounds foul. They are both very different. They both have their own mechanics and way of doing things. That is why you do not see D1 officials going back and forth from one to the other.

Peace

29
12 years
D1

Dang!!! I thought I was going to be the oldest official posting here but Thomas beat me.

I'm 58
6 years officiating (got a late start, but 23 years of soccer up to D3)
Varsity level (ususally girls)

1. 46
2. 28 years (in WV, FL, SC, NC)
3. Women's D-II

HOOSIER:
are u doing d 1 college ?
obviously, if u are, hopefully in 12 years. i can be at the same level when im 29. we both started at age 17, so im interested in talking with u to see how u started your career. id appreciate it. thanks :)