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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 08:35pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
That's why I got rid of the damn thing.
And got a dog that's bigger?

Helluva plan.....
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 08:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
And got a dog that's bigger?

Helluva plan.....
He was about the size of my now dead cat when I got him.

Who knew?

(He's still a big pussy btw...that's why I named him as I did)
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 08:39pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref

(He's still a big pussy btw...that's why I named him as I did)
God'll get you for that......
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 08:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
God'll get you for that......
Let's plan on having lunch there together.

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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 10:19pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
sigh i always forget all comments here are taken in a vacuum.

who mentioned firing the guy? at least you bring it to the directors attention--he chooses whether to act on it -- lets say you are the only one he might not do anything except mention is passing or if there are 2 or 3 others who complain as well he might want to have a talk with said person.

however one thing i failed to remember was that officiating and moving up is more political than business probably 90% politcial if not 100%. i see many decisions made because someone doesnt want to offend or hurt the other persons feelings or because of their relationship rather than making a decision that would maximize efficiency and output.

so in that i should have thought this out and said _ who gives a frack as the "business" of officiating is in its bubble. I act professionally on a court and I expect all other officials and those involved in our process and game to act accordingly. coaches/players get T'd up when they dont and fellow officials, even the bosses, will be confronted when needed. So far I have only had 1 experience with a location and its admin and I do not work games for them or at that location. It was my choice and its one that I am fine with. and this was an easy $40 for about an hour of work 5 minutes away from where I live. I value my experience in any situation more than the monetary gain or loss associated with said experience. I will work a very competitive tourney for half the normal rate because the games will be much more enjoyable to me. After all part of being an official is having the best seats in the house.
Then do not complain when it does not go over well. I am just saying I do not think it is a good idea. If you disagree, go complain until your run out of things to say.

Here is the thing; you are so stuck on the politics. There is politics in everything. If you piss off any decision maker, they can and will hold things against you. Why give them the ammo. But then again, if you cannot take someone running their camp like they want to, do not attend the camp or pursue working for them. It is really easy decision. When I do not like the way a camp is run, then I do not go again or work for that person. I certainly do not go around complaining about it. Oh well.

Peace
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 10:36pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
Third...I have been ripped at a camp in front of others...it was however a local camp. The evaluator, who didn't know any of us or our experience, dressed us each down for missing rotations and being out of position. It was my second time as part of a 3-official crew...for one of my partners it was his 4th...the seasoned vet in the crew had a whopping 8 games under his belt. I stood there a took it...but discounted everything he said during our session. He worked a lot of D1...but he was an arse hole and had trouble relating to the campers (or so I was told by two others who "checked up" on us after he was finished). Why was he there...so the camp could advertise they had officials from X conference working as evaluators.
So an evaluator gets on you and that is a problem? Welcome to the real world of camps. That happens all the time. It happened to me last summer and I got over it. He was one guy and he could not understand a mechanic I was using. I stood there, nodded my head and moved on. I did not rip him to other campers and worked my next game. BTW, all the evaluators were D1 officials at this camp.

Also what did the guy do in the OP anyway? He stepped in on a summer game where it is common for coaches and even fans to sometimes approach the camp directors about the officials or situations involving the situation. Not only are situations kind of common for some interaction with an evaluator and a coach, I have seen evaluators have very heated words with coaches. What did this guy do that we would have to complain about? I did not realize these games have the same protocol as a regular season game?

Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 07:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
So an evaluator gets on you and that is a problem? Welcome to the real world of camps. That happens all the time.
As Rut says this situation is not unique - I made a great call early in a game at camp this year and then blew a bang - bang back court violation a minute later that nobody in the gym but the evaluator and myself realized I missed - all we talked about was that call for ten minutes after the game and why I missed it.
Welcome to camp!

If you want to get better you go to camps to learn - it is just like any other school - you take something away from every class you go to - good or bad -
the original OP when he stops and thinks about it - he may have learned that some day when he is in a similar situation that he didn't like being trated that way so he will not do it to others.

Officiating is life - you learn things in officiating that you can use in your every day life with others and you learn things in life that you can apply to officiating. All of the things you learn will not be fun and joyful experiences - open your mind and find away to take something away from the experience that you can use.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 07:41am
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Location: Arlington, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
So an evaluator gets on you and that is a problem? Welcome to the real world of camps. That happens all the time. It happened to me last summer and I got over it. He was one guy and he could not understand a mechanic I was using. I stood there, nodded my head and moved on. I did not rip him to other campers and worked my next game. BTW, all the evaluators were D1 officials at this camp.

Also what did the guy do in the OP anyway? He stepped in on a summer game where it is common for coaches and even fans to sometimes approach the camp directors about the officials or situations involving the situation. Not only are situations kind of common for some interaction with an evaluator and a coach, I have seen evaluators have very heated words with coaches. What did this guy do that we would have to complain about? I did not realize these games have the same protocol as a regular season game?

Peace
Guess I should have been a little more detailed in that section...I thought the point would be apparent. I didn't say I had a problem with being ripped. It has happened before, and unless I die today, will probably happen again for something...can't please everyone. This person obviously didn't know any of us...which is normal at a camp. One would think, that if his goal was help us improve, that he would ask about us. Several times I have had evaluators come up to us before a game and ask how long each of us had been officiating and how much experience we had in 3-person work. Wouldn't you expect officials with virtually no experience to miss rotations.

My feeling was he wasn't concerned with teaching us what we needed to know at that stage of our development...he was just angry we were not doing things he thought were obvious. Nothing is obvious to a newbie. Teach them, don't berate them for being new.

I learned a lot at that camp...just not from him. I also admire his ability but do not respect him as an instructor and feel he really needs to work on his off the floor approach. It didn't help my opinion of him as an instructor to see him badger others publically...and I am sure he is losing sleep over that.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 09:41am
Ch1town
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
Officiating is life - you learn things in officiating that you can use in your every day life with others and you learn things in life that you can apply to officiating. All of the things you learn will not be fun and joyful experiences - open your mind and find away to take something away from the experience that you can use.

I like really like how you worded that... is that your material?
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 11:39am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS
Guess I should have been a little more detailed in that section...I thought the point would be apparent. I didn't say I had a problem with being ripped. It has happened before, and unless I die today, will probably happen again for something...can't please everyone. This person obviously didn't know any of us...which is normal at a camp. One would think, that if his goal was help us improve, that he would ask about us. Several times I have had evaluators come up to us before a game and ask how long each of us had been officiating and how much experience we had in 3-person work. Wouldn't you expect officials with virtually no experience to miss rotations.

My feeling was he wasn't concerned with teaching us what we needed to know at that stage of our development...he was just angry we were not doing things he thought were obvious. Nothing is obvious to a newbie. Teach them, don't berate them for being new.

I learned a lot at that camp...just not from him. I also admire his ability but do not respect him as an instructor and feel he really needs to work on his off the floor approach. It didn't help my opinion of him as an instructor to see him badger others publically...and I am sure he is losing sleep over that.
Larry,

I was referring to the original post, not your story.

For the record I would expect newer officials to miss rotations. I would expect experienced officials to miss rotations. But if you miss one and I am a clinician, expect me to say something about it. I know if you miss a play because you do not rotate a coach is not going to change his behavior because you are newer. I am sure this guy was no worse than a coach when you miss a play. Having said that I was not there and I did not know how bad it was. But that is also how things happen in camp and you have to just get over it.

I am an experienced official and last year I was ripped for 10 minutes about a situation in front of 20 officials and I got over it.

Peace
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 11:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town
I like really like how you worded that... is that your material?

My very own feel free to use

Make checks payable too .................
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 11:53am
Ch1town
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Hahaahha
So when using the quote, it should read as follows:


Officiating is life - you learn things in officiating that you can use in your every day life with others and you learn things in life that you can apply to officiating. All of the things you learn will not be fun and joyful experiences - open your mind and find away to take something away from the experience that you can use.

- OHBBREF
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 12:37pm
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ANY time you go to a camp - whether you know the clinicians or not - you should realize that there will be different personalities there, and some of them will be calm, rational people (like our own beloved Jurassic ), and some will be yellers and screamers (like our own M&m Guy )...if you can't handle those types of people, don't go to a camp...
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 12:55pm
Ch1town
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I agree with the clinicians having vastly different personalities. Recently I attended my first ever camp & some clinicians were focused more on campers appearance than the calls they missed, others were more focused on position rather than the quality of calls, some were even focused on the way we ran.

After day 1, I figured out how to be as successful as possible with each clinician. I showed up to my assigned court two games prior to my game & went in on the huddles to see what exactly they were/weren't looking for. Then I made sure I did what was expected of me for that particular clinician.

For the record, 80% of my games were with D1 officials, so when we huddled up guess who received the majority of the criticism???? I just shook my head yes, smiled & uttered the phrases "yes sir, thank you sir & I'll work on it sir" over & over again. It was a very humbling experience to say the least!! I start my second camp tonight & can't wait to hear how everything I learned doesn't apply here
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 13, 2007, 01:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
ANY time you go to a camp - whether you know the clinicians or not - you should realize that there will be different personalities there, and some of them will be calm, rational people (like our own beloved Jurassic ), and some will be yellers and screamers (like our own M&m Guy )...if you can't handle those types of people, don't go to a camp...
...and some are just butt-kissers and severely medicated, like our own rockyroad...

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