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ATLBrvs326 Wed May 30, 2007 11:51pm

Referee the Defense
 
I am watching some NBA games tonight and thinking about referee the defense. This has been what I have worked on all year long as well as thinking the entire game on the court (not being dead minded). Anyway, I have noticed that sometimes I miss calls when I referee the defense, especially in the paint when players are bundled because if you referee the defense when a player is getting guarded by 3 players, your more than likely gonna miss someone foul the offense. Watching the NBA game, I see the officials watching the offense sometimes, while other times watching the defense. So when exactly do I watch the defense, and when do I watch the offense. In the example above, would I watch the offense and watch for fouls? Any advice would be great.
Travis

just another ref Thu May 31, 2007 12:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLBrvs326
I Anyway, I have noticed that sometimes I miss calls when I referee the defense........................... So when exactly do I watch the defense, and when do I watch the offense.



Very broad question, so I offer very broad advice. Referee the defense?
Good semantics, but I personally was never exactly sure what this means.
If you "notice that sometimes you miss calls," you might simply concentrate on constantly adjusting you position in order to have a better look at these calls, whatever they may be. In particular, is it possible that you are sometimes too close to the action? Closer you may or may not see one thing better. Farther, you can surely have a wider angle and see more things.

Nevadaref Thu May 31, 2007 12:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLBrvs326
I am watching some NBA games tonight and thinking about referee the defense. This has been what I have worked on all year long as well as thinking the entire game on the court (not being dead minded). Anyway, I have noticed that sometimes I miss calls when I referee the defense, especially in the paint when players are bundled because if you referee the defense when a player is getting guarded by 3 players, your more than likely gonna miss someone foul the offense. Watching the NBA game, I see the officials watching the offense sometimes, while other times watching the defense. So when exactly do I watch the defense, and when do I watch the offense. In the example above, would I watch the offense and watch for fouls? Any advice would be great.
Travis

You make a good point about multiple defenders and players driving the lane. What might help you is to take a look to see if a player is attempting to draw a charge. If so, then that is going to be your primary focus. If not, then you can look for other defenders slapping the offensive player on the arm or such as well as traveling or other violations by the player with the ball.

"Referee the defense" doesn't mean to ignore the offense. It simply means that you FIRST look to see if the PRIMARY defender has position on potential crashes, if he is in your primary area. You must know this information in order to get the call right. If a secondary defender is attempting to take a charge, then whichever referee has that defender in his primary area must observe his position. Secondly, you look for defenders committing fouls by contacting the offensive player with the hands, arms, or legs. Lastly, you watch for violations by the offensive player. You already know the defender's position so if the offensive player causes contact the call is easy.

blindzebra Thu May 31, 2007 01:14am

The best advise I can give is not to get tunnel vision on the defender.

Make your goal to always get an open look through the match ups in your primary. By looking through the play, you should be aware of the defender and LGP, the status of the ball and the ball handler's pivot foot, as well as screens and second defenders beyond the on ball match up.

JRutledge Thu May 31, 2007 01:52am

Refereeing the defense is a concept, not just about where you look. You do not only watch the defense and forget about everyone else. Refereeing the defense is about being aware of what the defense is doing. If you know what the defense is doing, you have a good idea of what the offense might try to do or is able to do. If you see what the defense is doing, you likely can tell who did what. Just as said earlier you cannot get tunnel vision and only watch a small area. If the ball handler starts dribbling in the lane, pick up the defenders and what they are trying to do. This usually makes the call a lot easier. Just like anything this takes time to master and some will never completely master at all. But it is not something you get overnight. You really have to work on this because we are trained to watch the ball instead of the other aspects of the game.

Peace

tomegun Thu May 31, 2007 06:58am

Probably more than a year ago I made a post stating refereeing the matchup is better than refereeing the defense. This is something I got from one of those NBA refs who is also a D-1 assigner.

The overall response was less than warm. :D

Rut's comments above are good.

rainmaker Thu May 31, 2007 08:43am

"Referee the Defense" is great advice for the block/charge situation. It's not intended to be an overall reffing philosophy. It means to be sure you're not so intent on ball-handling that you don't know whether or not the defender has LGP, which is the crucial item in the block/charge call.

Better advice for general play is to See the Whole Play, or See Through the Play. If you have a good angle and are keeping a "whole play" mentality, you'll never miss an offensive foul. Well, I guess never is a little strong, but you won't miss many.

BktBallRef Thu May 31, 2007 08:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
"Referee the Defense" is great advice for the block/charge situation. It's not intended to be an overall reffing philosophy.

Really? :confused:

rainmaker Thu May 31, 2007 09:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef
Really? :confused:

Well, what do you mean, "Really?" Yea, really, I wasn't joking or being subtle. I guess I haven't polled trainers and camp clinicians around the country, but this is how I've always heard it. And it makes sense. See the Whole Play is a better way to be sure that you're catching as much as possible, don't you think?

bob jenkins Thu May 31, 2007 09:32am

"Referee the Defense" is NOT the same as "Referee ONLY the Defense"

BktBallRef Thu May 31, 2007 10:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
Well, what do you mean, "Really?" Yea, really, I wasn't joking or being subtle. I guess I haven't polled trainers and camp clinicians around the country, but this is how I've always heard it. And it makes sense. See the Whole Play is a better way to be sure that you're catching as much as possible, don't you think?

I asked "Really?" because I've never heard such a thing before.

"Referee the defense" is a philosophy that is used throughout basketball officiating, not just block/charge.

Jurassic Referee Thu May 31, 2007 10:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
"Referee the Defense" is NOT the same as "Referee ONLY the Defense"

Bingo.<i></i>

Dan_ref Thu May 31, 2007 10:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Bingo.<i></i>


OK, we have a clear answer.

MODS!!! In order to preserve the beauty and grace of this thread I demand it be locked now! No more discussion on this particular corner of the forum!!!

:rolleyes:

Scrapper1 Thu May 31, 2007 10:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref
MODS!!! In order to preserve the beauty and grace of this thread I demand it be locked now! No more discussion on this particular corner of the forum!!!

Request denied, since you are not the original poster of the thread. :p

Dan_ref Thu May 31, 2007 10:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Request denied, since you are not the original poster of the thread. :p

yeahbut I slept in a holiday inn last night...anyway

MODS!!!! I demand the right to declare threads complete and lockable be extended to anyone who posts in that thread!!!

JRutledge Thu May 31, 2007 11:05am

I am going to have to piggy back on what many people have said. Referee the defense is an "all the time" practice. You watch the defense so you are not surprised when contact occurs. And you do not just pay attention to the player guarding immediately, you watch the other players as well. So when a ball handler goes to the lane, you are not surprised when contact occurs.

Peace

rainmaker Thu May 31, 2007 11:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
I am going to have to piggy back on what many people have said. Referee the defense is an "all the time" practice. You watch the defense so you are not surprised when contact occurs. And you do not just pay attention to the player guarding immediately, you watch the other players as well. So when a ball handler goes to the lane, you are not surprised when contact occurs.

Peace

I agree 100% with your philosophy. I just find that the words "Referee the Defense" aren't the best way to teach it. It gives the idea of ignoring the offense. I really prefer "See the Whole Play". It helps a person understand that it's all importnat.

JRutledge Thu May 31, 2007 11:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
I agree 100% with your philosophy. I just find that the words "Referee the Defense" aren't the best way to teach it. It gives the idea of ignoring the offense. I really prefer "See the Whole Play". It helps a person understand that it's all importnat.

I do not like the terminology "See the whole play" at all. That terminology does not focus on where you are watching and why.

The philosophy is not just about the verbiage and only the verbiage. This is about getting the average person away from only watching the ball handler and having a play blow up on them without see everything. If you just say "see the whole play" does not tell someone the defense is the key. After how can you call a block/charge call without knowing if the defender was not legal in their movement?

Peace

BktBallRef Thu May 31, 2007 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
I agree 100% with your philosophy. I just find that the words "Referee the Defense" aren't the best way to teach it. It gives the idea of ignoring the offense. I really prefer "See the Whole Play". It helps a person understand that it's all importnat.

"See the whole play" refers to being wide enough to see everything you need to see AND waiting, allowing the play to develop and then make a call, if neccesary.

rainmaker Thu May 31, 2007 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
I do not like the terminology "See the whole play" at all. That terminology does not focus on where you are watching and why.

The philosophy is not just about the verbiage and only the verbiage. This is about getting the average person away from only watching the ball handler and having a play blow up on them without see everything. If you just say "see the whole play" does not tell someone the defense is the key. After how can you call a block/charge call without knowing if the defender was not legal in their movement?

Peace

You're right that defense is key on the block/charge, and that the ref needs to keep close track of that. And that new people need to learn how to not watch the ball-handler only.

But the OP is now having trouble keeping track of the offense, because he's doing too much Refereeing the Defense. I think for him, and probably others, See the Whole Play, with the appropriate explanations, will be more useful.

JRutledge Thu May 31, 2007 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
You're right that defense is key on the block/charge, and that the ref needs to keep close track of that. And that new people need to learn how to not watch the ball-handler only.

But the OP is now having trouble keeping track of the offense, because he's doing too much Refereeing the Defense. I think for him, and probably others, See the Whole Play, with the appropriate explanations, will be more useful.

The reason in my mind the OPer is having trouble is the fact he has tunnel vision. I would be that he is only looking at or two players and this is why he is surprised when a secondary defender comes into the picture. When a ball handler comes to the paint, you have to start paying attention to where the other defenders are so that you are not shocked when one comes out of no where and there is some contact. Refereeing the defense also helps you see screens and off ball activity which can be more important. Anyone can simply watch the ball.

Also seeing the whole play is about not making a call too quick before the result or advantage/disadvantage is determined. In other words making a block/charge call when the defender clearly flops applies as well. Or making a hand check call but the ball handler blows by the defender and has an opportunity for an easy lay-up or pass that leads to a easy lay-up.

Just like anything in this world some people are going to get it and others will never understand no matter what terminology is. Maybe he will never understand or it was not explained to him properly. We call do not learn the same and we all do not pick things up at the same rate. But based on what he said I do not see this as an issue with the verbiage, I see this as an issue of having tunnel vision and not seeing everything around one or two players. He might not even have a good concept of the coverage area and how to move to get better angles in that coverage area.

Peace

Junker Thu May 31, 2007 12:25pm

There's lots of good stuff on this thread. Kind of a nice suprise after all the NBA stuff that's been floating around here lately. :D My question is for the OP. How do you know you're missing calls? Are you watching tape, or do you just feel like you're missing stuff?

Old School Thu May 31, 2007 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
Refereeing the defense is a concept, not just about where you look. You do not only watch the defense and forget about everyone else. Refereeing the defense is about being aware of what the defense is doing.

Very well stated. It is a concept but if you are just watching the defense, then you certainly will not see illegal screens. You have to learn to balance this with all the other duties you have to perform that day. Rainmaker point below regarding LGP is crucial in all violations involving illegal contact, not just block/charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
"Referee the Defense" is great advice for the block/charge situation. It's not intended to be an overall reffing philosophy. It means to be sure you're not so intent on ball-handling that you don't know whether or not the defender has LGP, which is the crucial item in the block/charge call.

Better advice for general play is to See the Whole Play, or See Through the Play. If you have a good angle and are keeping a "whole play" mentality, you'll never miss an offensive foul. Well, I guess never is a little strong, but you won't miss many.

I think what you mean to say here is "See the Whole Play Through." Let the play complete itself and judge by that. For example, if a guy dunks the ball, but there's contact on the play, seeing the whole play thru, you can judge that the contact was incidental to the player scoring and therefore no need to call a foul. If the player misses the dunk, seeing the whole play thru means this same contact could be ruled a foul judging that the contact caused the player to miss. That's just one example.

blindzebra Thu May 31, 2007 03:05pm

How about a check list of what is the most important?

1. Position: Be positioned to get the widest view possible, be positioned to see through the players.

2. Find the defense: I like find better than referee the defense since it doesn't lead to over focusing on the defender.

3. Know the status of the ball: Where is it? Have they dribbled? Which is their pivot?

4. Don't tunnel vision on the match up: Work to see through the on-ball match up, to include as many players as possible in your primary.

You do all 4 and you will see the play, know LGP, won't miss violations by the offense, and won't be surprised by screens or secondary defenders.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu May 31, 2007 04:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindzebra
How about a check list of what is the most important?

1. Position: Be positioned to get the widest view possible, be positioned to see through the players.

2. Find the defense: I like find better than referee the defense since it doesn't lead to over focusing on the defender.

3. Know the status of the ball: Where is it? Have they dribbled? Which is their pivot?

4. Don't tunnel vision on the match up: Work to see through the on-ball match up, to include as many players as possible in your primary.

You do all 4 and you will see the play, know LGP, won't miss violations by the offense, and won't be surprised by screens or secondary defenders.


BlindZebra:

Excellent post. Should be required reading for all basketball officials.

MTD, Sr,

Mark Padgett Thu May 31, 2007 05:08pm

In determining how to make calls, I use the "WWESD" philosophy. It simplifies everything and I don't have to remember anything else.

Oh yeah. It stands for "What Would Earl Strom Do?" ;)

BTW (off topic) - my son has a T-shirt that says "WWSD - What Would Scooby Do?" on it.

Texas Aggie Thu May 31, 2007 06:08pm

Quote:

If the ball handler starts dribbling in the lane, pick up the defenders and what they are trying to do. This usually makes the call a lot easier.
Ruts stuff here is good and I agree 100%. Just to add to it a bit under this statement, be aware of a possible secondary defender coming over and either taking the charge or committing the foul himself. In boys play, HS JV or Varsity and above, some of these guys come out of nowhere and I think calls are missed because we weren't aware of their presence until after we put everything together in our minds -- often when we are heading back the other way.

The way I like to do it is think about what defense their in: zone, man, combo. Then break it down some more. This helps keeps me alert in games where we are at risk of drifting.

just another ref Fri Jun 01, 2007 03:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
In determining how to make calls, I use the "WWESD" philosophy. It simplifies everything and I don't have to remember anything else.

Oh yeah. It stands for "What Would Earl Strom Do?" ;)

BTW (off topic) - my son has a T-shirt that says "WWSD - What Would Scooby Do?" on it.


Didn't know Scooby was an official.


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