Just a rant, really. This is a topic that I just read a question about over on the slum board. A player muffs a pass, it goes through his hands to the floor. He picks it up and dribbles away. NO CALL, NOT A DOUBLE DRIBBLE. I see my fellow officials calling this way too often. I was myself guilty of it last year, before you guys straightened me out. My girlfriend is a varsity coach and in comparing notes after last Friday night's game she questioned my knowledge of the rules. After she came to, she explained that a ref had called this on her player 3 times that night. We all miss calls, but 3 times, he obviously has a misconception about this situation.

Another misapplication is the fumbling catch travel. You gotta hold the ball at some point before you can travel. Even the two non-holding travel scenarios that Tony posted require that you initially hold the ball (1) self-pass that never hits ground and is not a try on goal and 2) setting ball on floor while down then standing up and picking ball back up).

You make me proud! :)

DevDog69:

I think that you should give your girl friend an ultimatum: either she comes over from the Dark Side and become a practicing basketball official or at least become a basketball official because as my very successful high school coach (who was also a OhioHSAA registered basketball official), if you do not know the rules you cannot teach the sport to the players.

Coaches need not become officials to know the rules. but they should dedicate the time they spend on skills and drills and offenses and defenses to learning the rules and how the game is officiated.

The best way for a coach to learn the rules/officiating knowledge that we both talk about, is to become an official.

While becoming an official may be the best way to accomplish this task in the fullest, it is also the most time-consuming. I have never officiated, never intend to do so. I coach 80 games per year and at least that many practices. I support our club tournaments by helping keep things on schedule, working table, etc. I go to tryouts a couple of times a year, recruit players, attend some of my players school team games to support them, etc.

Do you really want me officiating and doing 2-3 games a year? I would suck! Knowing the rules and interpretations and teaching them are far different than being able to referee a game. If I could put the time into reffing that I put into coaching, I have no doubt that I could learn to do it well. But I have only so much free time and I spend some of it coaching and the rest with my family (who never see me when I am away coaching). I can't and won't put the time needed in to be a decent ref, and I won't do it halfways because it's not fair to anyone who gets my games (and I wouldn't be qualified to ref the level I coach, let alone the level I want to coach, so what would I really learn!)

What if the player receiving the pass bats the ball to the floor to aviod a steal? The ball bounces once then is controlled. Can he/she still dribble?

rev.,
if you judge the player batted(tapped) the ball with control. he can either continue dribbling or pick the up the ball. i interpret the situation in this manner.

Uh,tony,if you judge that the player batted(tapped) the ball without control,can't he dribble or pick up the ball legally?This isn't what Rev asked in his question above.

yes. but the player could not dribble after he picked up the ball in my situation. he could in yours.

I apologize if my scenario wasn't clear. A player is receiving a pass and his defender has a play on the ball as well. To avoid having the ball stolen, he bats the ball to the ground as opposed to catching it. The ball bounces once then he catches it. Does he still have his dribble? I lean towards "no" in this case.

Back to the coach vs official thing. My wife is a high school coach with about 18 years experience. Before that she played high school and some small college ball. She is the reason I started officiating. First it was to help her referee a 7-8 year old game that she still laughs about. Then up the rec ladder until I decided to join the local board and try my hand at high school ball.

Needless to say, some interesting conversations regarding rules and coaches vs officials have occured as I have progressed in rule interpertation and game management over the past few years. However, we both agree the exchanges have helped us both.

She may be a coach, but how many of you have significant others that would rather watch a ball game than "Who wants to be a millionaire"?

Merry Christmas to all!

As JR and Crew stated earlier, (I think from both sides of the same coin), the key is "control". If the player bats the ball to the ground "with control" it would constitute the beginning of a dribble. If the player then holds the ball, the dribble has ended. If the player bats the ball, and it was "without control" of the ball, then gains control by holding the ball, the player may begin a dribble.

From the sitch you describe I too would say NO the player does not still have his dribble.

Mike

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. The best way for a coach to learn the rules/officiating knowledge that we both talk about, is to become an official.

I'd settle for them just being in the same universe where rulebooks are sold.

Ranjo, you are a lucky man!! You'd better hang on to that one.

I lean strongly toward the defensive tap/bat being considered to be uncontrolled, regardless of how it "controlled" it looks. If the defender elects to bat the ball rather than try to catch it, I rarely see this interpreted as control at any level and would not expect it to be considered control. That is expecting too much of the defender. I teach my players to bat towards backcourt on all passes to wing or to point, pick up the first opportunity they get to gain control of the ball, and then commence their dribble. Not clear if this is exactly your sitch, but I have trouble imagining a situation in which I would call this the start of the dribble.

In tap situation, regardless of any apparent control over tap, benefit of doubt should go to defense. Allow them to establish clear player control before considering it to be in player control. One defensive tap does not pass the test in my book.

I gotta agree. That's a great explanation. It's hard to believe you're a coach.

It is still not too late to email Santa Claus with your request but I think that this one Christmas request that Santa will never be able to make good on in a million years.

FED 4-15, Note 2: A player is not dribbling when ... he/she bats a ... pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions.

So, in your case, I'd say the player still can dribble. (But, I agree with crew, et al, that IF you judge it to be control and the start of a dribble, then the player can't dribble again.)

I think that leagues should require all coaches and assistants to sit thru a rules lecture given by a league official that specifically covers special league rules and POEs. Were talking what, an hour. It would be a good forum to explain how we are going to make certian calls. For example in a league I ref (3rd - 6th) there is an isolation rule designed to get all kids involved in the game. The coaches have no idea what we are looking for as a criteria to call it so they ALWAYS end up requiring a explanation. A couple other things we could cover include the 3 second count ends on a shot attempt...just because a taller kid jumps straight up but reaches over his vertically challenged defender to grab a board its not "over the back". Etc. At least get the coaches on the same planet.

Larks...Rookie Dreamer

We can't even get our coaches to come to the rec league organizational meeting. :(

Mark T.'s Post is flirting with humor :D
 

It made me wonder... What is more difficult to understand (Explain) The logic of a coach or a blonde.

(Sorry blondes, I am married to one. Does that give me a "pass" or an alibi?)