Lottery Justice
 

Does anyone else think that there was some cosmic justice in this year's NBA lottery? :D

Neither of the two teams with the worst records (Memphis and Boston) were selected for the top three picks and thus will choose 4th and 5th, respectively.

That should quiet the "tanking" conspiracy!

"With the second pick in the 1984 NBA draft, the Portland Trailblazers select Sam Bowie of the University of Kentucky."

If the Jailblazers draft Oden, they could repeat history.

Sam Bowie did not play most of his career at Kentucky because of injury. I even think Bowie missed an entire season and most of another season. Oden only broke a wrist and played with that injury and performed very well. Not quite the same person or history. I think Oden will make any team he plays on much better.

Peace

Yes, some teams were tanking games. It was factual to me that some teams were losing to get better draft positioning or that they did not care to win or lose. Go to archives on articles regarding games in which players made quotes as to why they were starters/stars being pulled during a close game. Sometimes later picks may benefit your team if you have a good scouting and player personnel department (recent #5 NBA draft picks).

Poor Sam Bowie. You know, at the time it was a better pick for Portland. They didn't need Jordan with Drexler already there. Sam was a gamble, but especially at that time, teams needed size.

First, that's not true and second, that's not the history I'm referring to.

Sam Bowie missed one season at UK because of injury but he played 96 games in his other three seasons. So to say he "did not play most of his career" and missed "most of another season" is incorrect.

Portland drafted Bowie when they should have drafted Jordan.

If they draft Oden instead of Kevin Durant, they will have once again screwed the pooch, IMHO.

That's my point. Time will tell.

Hindsight being 20/20, we now know that's not true. Jordan and Drexler could easily have co-existed in the same starting lineup. Portland would have won more championships with jordan and Drexler than Chicago did with Jordan and Pippen.

Hopefully, in 10 years, both Durant and Oden will have had miserable careers so that neither of you can make the absolutely bogus claim of knowing 10 years ago how good your respective picks would be.

The kids these days are too young and too inexperienced for it to be anything more than a crapshoot, plain and simple. That's why they call it the lottery.

Actually, it's not.

That's why some people continue the metaphor.

Actually, I think Oden would be a good fit for Portland. I believe Durant is the better player, but he's not someone the Blazers need right now. LaMarcus Aldridge is the same type player and is already here and had a good rookie season...what Portland needs right now is a rebounder and defensive presence in the middle - that would be Oden, not Durant...

Besides, if Portland takes Oden, then the Sonics can take Durant!! :D

I don't know that Drexler and Jordan would have worked well together early in their career. They both needed plenty of shots at that point. It would have been fun seeing them running the break together though.

The rumor here in Portland is that the Blazers will trade their first pick for the rights to redraft LaRue Martin! :eek:

While that is a popular point of view, we can never really know. Injuries are unpredictable and who know what would have happened if the picks were different. Bowie may have had different conditioning and training that may have helped avoided his injuries. Jordan may have become injured and never been the same. You just can't tell in this type of situation.

Bowie was a well respected college player that was expected to be a NBA star. Sure Jordan, by far, ended up the better player. But was Bowie the wrong pick? Only if you can see the future and tell who'll never overcome an injury.

Sam Bowie

I know this was a long time ago, but this source says he missed two seasons and I have read and heard that he missed a lot of other time to constant leg injuries. So I am not sure what I said that was not true? Oh well it does not make that much difference to me. I just remember that Bowie had many health problems at Kentucky and it had been said that the Trail Blazers should have known Bowie was a bigger risk. But the Trail Blazers did have Drexler and even without picking Bowie Jordan might not have been a perfect fit.

Peace

FWIW, Wikipedia is not a very credible source.

True. Anyone can edit Wikipedia.

OK, then ESPN on "You Cannot Blame" show on ESPN Classic said that Bowie spent two seasons out with leg injuries and even said that when he did play he hardly played a complete season because of constant injuries. Whether it is a completely credible source or not, this was the issue with Bowie and many people looked at his college history as an indication of his problems he had in the NBA as it related to injury.

Peace

This is more like choosing between Olajuwon and Jordan. Bowie wasn't all that good when he was healthy.

IMO, Oden is a once per generation talent. Durant is a wing. There are great wing players every year. You pays your nickel, you takes your choice.

Funny. That's probably what Portland said that year as well.

I think that had more to do with Jordan's development than the decline of the other teams. Jordan and company beat some decent teams on their way to the top.

Durant is no different than a Kevin Garnett or Tracy McGrady and how many titles do these guys have? KG and McGrady have a hard time making the playoffs or getting past the 1st round.

Oden is going to be a great player or a player that will influence his team a lot more because he is dedicated to playing around the basket on both ends. Not to say Durant will not be a similar player. Durant averaged more blocks than Oden did during this past season. So it is possible that Durant will be one of the all time greats. Durant is a swing player and is more likely to be a shooter and a slashers. Oden's style of can benefit a team without being a dominate scorer. If Ben Wallace could score a little bit, the Bulls would have beat the Pistons. You can always find slashers with decent shooting ability. You cannot find true center players that actually want to be around the basket on both ends of the floor.

Peace

Yes, but how much of this is due to individual ability and how much is due to the organizations they belong to?

From a 1984 post, if the Internet existed back then:

"Actually, I think Bowie would be a good fit for Portland. I believe Jordan is the better player, but he's not someone the Blazers need right now. Clyde Drexler is the same type player and is already here and had a good rookie season...what Portland needs right now is a rebounder and defensive presence in the middle - that would be Bowie, not Jordan..." :D


Based on how history played out, we know that Jordan would have been the better pick.

Bowie played 34 games, 28 games, and 34 games in the three seasons he played. That's 96 games with an average of almost 29 minutes per game. So to say that he missed much of his career is not true.

Face it or not guys, Portland ****ed up.

I will say it this way. Tracy McGrady has been on several teams and he cannot lift his team to the next level. The Bulls were terrible when Jordan got there but he lifted that team to a contender and shined even when he was out matched by a better team. KG can hardly make the playoffs each year. KG has had many players around him that should help the team and for some reason it just never happens. Great players should at least lift their teams into the playoffs and the second round.

Peace

Bowie was at Kentucky for 5 years for a McDonald's All-American. This was a time when players of that caliber did not red shirt and still to this day players like that do not red shirt.

Peace

One of those two missed seasons was a red-shirt season. So, he played games in three seasons and sat out two.

Even with his problems, he's at near the top of a lot of several UK statistical catagories...even only playing 3 years.

• Career scoring #27: ahead of Scott Padgett, Randolph Morriss Rex Chapman Jamaal Magloire, Antoine Walker, Derek Anderson.
• Rebounds #8: Ahead of Magloire, Tayshaun Prince, Pat Riley, Scott Padgett, Randolph Morris, Walter McCarty
• Blocked Shots #3: Ahead of Tayshaun Prince, Nazr Mohammed, Chuck Hayes, Randolph Morriss, Kenny Walker, Scott Padgett, Jamal Mashburn, Antoine Walker, Rex Champman

http://bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statist...Bowie_Sam.html
http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/college_stats.htm


He was 2nd Team All American in 81 as a sophomore and 84 as a senior (did not play in 82 and 83)

Hindsight is clear, he turned out to be a poor choice for the Blazers but looking at his numbers in college, he was a good pick. While he had some major injury trouble in college, perhaps the doctors all throught it was a 1 time problem.

If you were looking for a rebounding shot blocker, Bowie beat Jordan soundly...at the time... averaging almost 10 RPG and 2.3 Blocks per game versus Jordan's 5 rebounds and 0.7 blocks. If you were looking for a scorer or someone who could steal the ball, Jordan was the man. Jordan's assists were only marginally better than Bowie's.

They were simply differnet players...with similarly impressive college performances in differnet facets of the game. One went on to be the best player ever the other went on to a career of injuries....never having the opportunity to display what he could or couldn't do. I doubt he would have ever been as good as Jordan became...but that doesn't say anything about the quality of Portland's pick. Their choice at the time made sense given they already had a top scorer in Drexler.

You draft what you need, you don't draft for potential. Bowie at the time was a very good intelligent pick for Portland and I would have selected him over Jordan with Clyde already on my team, come on!! That's a no-brainer. You going to built around Clyde, and what does he need, a rebounder and force underneath. Bowie was a gamble you had to take. In no-way do you pass on Oden. That would border line be a crime punishable by impeachment of the owner by the fans.

I recently saw a commercial with Reggie Bush who was talking about how great New Orleans was and how they embraced him there, etc. The punch line of the commercial was thanks for passing on me in the first round. I hope Portland doesn't make the same mistake. We have had some legitimate players coming out of the draft as of late.

Those statements tell me all I need to know! If Old School disagrees with me, I lnow I'm right!!! :D

LOL...but you have to remember that I'm not a Blazers fan! Like I said, I WANT them to pick Oden so Seattle can take Durant!

You're full of $h!t. The 96 Bulls were every bit as good as the 86 Celtics or the best Laker teams. You mention the Pistons. Realize that the Bulls were the second best team in the league both years the Pistons won the title. They carried Detroit deeper into a 7 game series than anyone else in those two years. They just had the misfortune of meeting the Pistons in the Eastern Conference and not in the Finals. Once they gained homecourt advantage by having a better record, they had no problem with the Pissons.

The Hawks? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!! The Hawks couldn't beat any 5 of us!!!!!!!! :D

Have you actually seen Chuck Elias shoot a basketball?

He has

http://www.poster.net/kimberlin-keit...py-5001238.jpg

How many titles did the player produce? Is that your standard?

That's not a good argument for drafting Oden, the big guy who plays center, instead of the talented forward, Durant.

Why? Let me point out a big man named Patrick Ewing. Tremendous college player, excellent pro player, ZERO NBA titles.

BTW a parallel between Oden and Ewing is that both took their teams to the NCAA title game as freshman and lost.

First of all I do not know that it is a "standard." I do know that when you draft players missing the playoffs all together cannot be the goal. And yes if they draft Oden over Durant or Durant over Oden, I would hope that trying to win a title is part of their objective. If it is not, then someone will not have a job. You do not need a high draft pick to not make the playoffs.

Once again I think you have a hard time understanding some basic concepts. The success of a player is not just titles, but at the very least getting a chance to win a title. Patrick Ewing was close many times to winning a title and even made the finals. If it was not for John Starks and his drought in Game 7, Ewing just might have won a title. McGrady has never gotten past the first round of the playoffs and KG has went years of not making the playoffs at all and has also struggled in the post season. There was even a time when KG could not get past the first round either but did get to the Western Conference finals and the following year miss the post season all together. I believe that Oden will likely change the dynamic of that team to the point they might be competing for a title if he stays healthy. Durant needs a point guard and likely another big man to even compete on a consistent basis. Oden will make a point guard better and will make other players around him because they will have a stop defender around the basket. Of course time will tell but I usually having a big man that is productive is more likely to make an average team into a Champion. Even the Bulls did not have a dominate center but they had one of the all time best clutch players on that team. Durant would have some big shoes to fill to do that on his own. So far KG and McGrady have not even come close and they play much more like Durant than Oden does. Remember who won the title last year? Oden may not be a dominate scorer like Shaq, but he is closer to having an affect on his team than Durant will based on what we have seen so far. Also remember who was in the NCAA Finals this year.

Peace

Sure have.....
http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/Sport/basketball.jpg

That is so wrong. :D

Peace

Gee, not really. It was one of the reasons that Chuck switched to officiating from playing.....
http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Comic/Sport/tall.jpg
It's true, it's true......

Yeahbut he's doesn't need height

http://fark.pbwiki.com/f/Squirrel-Original.jpg

No, that is you. You list two forwards who have never won the NBA title and conclude that therefore the center is the better draft choice because he is more likely to produce a championship for his team. However, when I name a center who is considered one of the all-time best, but never got a ring, you fail to see how that refutes your logic.

(Instead you meekly state that Ewing came close. Well so did Stockton and Malone.)

So obviously further examples are necessary.
For every example you can name, a counterexample can be cited. That means that your entire premise is faulty.

1. Remember who was eliminated in the first round this year? :p

2. Also remember who WON the NCAA Finals this year. :p

Incidently, Ewing's freshman year the Hoyas lost the title game to a team led by James Worthy. What position did he play? How many NBA titles did he go on to win?

Man, do you see that defense??? I am smothering Chuck there - he never had a chance against me!!;)

No fair though. You're waaaaaay taller than him. At least an inch.

Ewing wanted to be Kevin Durant instead of being Bill Russell. He was in love with his jump shot and sometimes reluctant to go to the hole. Nevertheless the Knicks were a Charles Smith layup and a John Starks jump shot from two titles.

Clyde Drexler was not as good as Jordan, but the question is whether Drexler and Jordan would have been as good as Drexler and Bowie. At the time it wasn't all that clear, although I was not a big Bowie fan. I always think if a center is that good, they should be dominant. I never saw Bowie as dominant. I thought he was another Mychal Thompson or Kent Benson, great college players that would be journeyman pros.

Then again, no one knew Jordan would be that good. If he didn't come back from his injury his second year and Bowie did, you might be arguing the other way. Jordan became dominant by hard work and adding Scottie Pippin and Phil Jackson.

Ten years from now, people may be writing how stupid they were for not taking Yi or Wright or Belinelli or Tomic.

As for saying that players like Michael Jordan only come along once in a generation, you're giving him too much credit. At the time Jordan came along you also had Wilkins, Drexler and Bird, who were also wings, as well as Pippin a few years later. If Durant proves to be as good as any of these players, I'm sure whoever drafts him will be happy.

I agree that the Bulls wouldn't have dominated in the 80's. What the 90's lacked was another team that had a leader with the "killer instinct" that Jordan had. What made the Lakers/Celtics rivalry was the fact that both Magic and Bird didn't just want to win, they had to win. Jordan never had to play a great player that had that intangible aspect in their prime.

I disagree. Shaq, Charles Barkely, Akin Olajuwon, David Robinson, Tim Duncun, Karl Malone, James Worthly, and even Alan Iverson to name a few. Let's not forget the star status Jordan acheived which benefited him a lot of calls in his favor, especially in his later championships. Utah was a call or two away from winning at least one of those series. I think Jordan got a way with a few but he still earned most of them.

What!!!!!!!!!!!
Whatever.

Durant might make everyone wrong. I would take the most talented player with the most upside and that is Durant. I think people forget the fact that Ohio State had a very good team last season and a great team without Oden. I dont see him as a dominant big man. I think he can change shots, but that is about it. Portland has Randolph and his contract might be hard to trade.

Currently (Sunday, May 27), the general scuttlebutt around town in the media and fans talking, seems to be heavily leaning towards Oden. There was even a news story about his mom coming to Portland and liking it a lot. I guess we'll see.