2007-08 Major Mechanics Changes
 

The NFHS just posted these mechanics changes. What do people think of them?
The first one matches the NCAA rule. The second reverts back to the way it used to be done by the NFHS and has always been done by IAABO, since that group never changed. The final one goes against previous advice of not leaving the ball on the floor unattended.



2007-08 MAJOR MECHANICS CHANGES

211; 321: The referee may designate the official to administer the jump ball to start the game or overtime.

273; 275; Diagram 29: Crew of Two Only: Change the time-out and intermission positions so that the administering official will stand where play will be resumed and the non-administering official will stand, facing the table, on the division line (on the circle nearest the table for a 30-second time-out or intermission).

273; 378: During a time-out or intermission, the administering official may set the ball down on the floor where play will be resumed if movement is necessary away from the spot to communicate with the table/partner(s).

I do not like the last one basically because HS cheerleaders are not smart enough to look at the ball on the floor.

Peace

My take...

First one:

In reality it shouldn't matter because all three should be able to toss a ball striaght up the air between two dudes (or dudettes).

It could add a tad of confusion to a noob who's looking at some pregame material where it's specifically laid out where who stands where.

My association assigns the R,U1,U2 positions, but when working out of assoc. games it's usually one of two scenarios: Whoever can say "Hey you want to toss?" first or it's RPS on the way out to the floor.

It's my understanding that in college it's always assigned and the R take a higher proflile role on the crew.

Second one:

Again I don't care so long as it doesn't change again next year. ;-)

Why you ask?

Because for instance my association is an iaabo board, but during our mechanics session, it was demonstrated that we were to use the NFHS mechanic (block,key) on two man time outs. OK thats they way we're going to do it.

Well myself only been around long enough to know the "new" (old?) way I never was ingrained with the "old" (new?) way. Whenever I'd get with a vet I would pregame which way he'd want to go...9 out of 10 "yea yea lets do it the right way and do the "new" (old?) way.

OK we're doing it the "new" (old?) way tonight.

And what would you know 50% of the time he'd do it the "old" (new?) way anyways out of habit.

It didn't matter I'd just fill in either way.

I will say as far as which way is better...I'd say the "old" (new?) is slightly better as having the ball at the throw in spot has definite merit.

Guys should be smart enough (or not see above :-) to be able to adjust between the two mechanics depending on working two or three men, which I'm sure was the original reasoning behind the switch in the first place, to try to keep it consistent between the two.

Heck I confused myself just typing this reply...I can imagine what our meeting is going to be like :-0

I like the new mechanic changes.;)

I support the latter two changes and disagree with the first.

Absolutely agree. Or you'll get some smart-aleck who tries to hide the ball or knocks it under the bleachers.

The time-out mechanic is also absolutely the right way to do it for a "crew of two". If we want to be communicators, that is surely the way to accomplish that during the time-out.

All good!

I'm very glad they reverted to the administering official going to the throwin spot (or FT line if it's a FT) and the other going to the division line. It makes SO much more sense than what we've had the last 2-3 years.


Sitting the ball down...fine...but that could open things up for pranks. Colleges and NBA have security to deal with such problems. Most HS's don't (or don't have enough to be of any immediate use or deterent).

Remember guys these are guidelines.... we must use common sense. If you need to set the ball down and see some problem may occur pick it up, get out of the way and resume play when intermission activity is over... Let play or what ever action that occurs duing the intermission dictate what you need to do.

Common sense or not, I am not putting the ball down. I think this is a silly mechanic and unnecessary. Just hold on the ball as usual. I do not need to put the ball down in the exact spot to let others know where the ball it. Also unless you are talking with your partners I do not see the need for this mechanic.

Peace

Remember, it says "may" place the ball down. I've done it occasionally to go talk to my partner(s) and never had a problem. Nothing says you can't just take it with you, though.

[QUOTE=JRutledge]Common sense or not, I am not putting the ball down. I think this is a silly mechanic and unnecessary. Just hold on the ball as usual. I do not need to put the ball down in the exact spot to let others know where the ball it. Also unless you are talking with your partners I do not see the need for this mechanic.

Peace[/QUOTE

DISCLAIMER: I am not taking a shot at JRutledge. I'm just making a point about communication. JRutledge, just like you view this mechanic being unnecessary. It's all about communication right? Just like spreading your arms when the defender is not within 6'.

What were you doing before? You were not standing where the ball was going to be put out? I know I stood where the ball was going to be put out. I do not need to put the ball right in front of the bench (where it might not be seen) to communicate where the ball is going to be put back into play. And considering that you will have cheerleaders flipping around and players running onto the floor, I do not feel comfortable putting the ball in a place where someone has the chance to trip over the ball during or after a timeout.

Peace

While I may set the ball down on the end line or the opposite sideline, I'll never set it by the bench. If that's where the ball is coming back in, I'll usually back off to about the lane line extended perpendicular to the spot. I have the ball with me.
That said, I think I'll pay more attention to how others are doing this around here. It may be frowned upon here, I just haven't seen it.

And if the coach wants to know where the ball is going to be put in play, he'll ask. Funny thing about that, they will even ask if one of us is standing at the spot with the ball.

Nfhs ???
 

From Nevaderef: "The NFHS just posted these (2007-08) mechanics changes"

Nevaderef: Thanks for the information. I can't find these posted on the NFHS web site. What's your source? Thanks.

For those that are IAABO, The mechanic changes have not been adopted by IAABO...yet.

They just added it onto the end of the existing "rules changes" page on the NFHS web site.

One of the changes actually goes back to the way IAABO is still (already?) doing it. I really like that particular change, too.

This is why I said "I" am not going to use it. What others do is fine with me. I just think for the HS level it could cause more problems than we really need. Then again this mechanic might not be advocated by our state and it does say "may" after all.

Peace

hmmm...
 

don't like the first change at all

and where are you going to stand if when the timeout is called and the ball is in front of the bench? i guess you become part of that team's huddle right? that will be fun if the coach is upset with you. and then what happens if the other team's coach has a question and you set the ball down and the other team breaks their huddle the kicks the ball acrossed the court? not to mention the cheerleaders mentioned in a previous post.

Back up onto the court a few steps - no need to overthink the situation.

i know...but, then you aren't doing what the NFHS is asking you to do...LOL

overthinking the situation, who? me? hah...just having some fun...it's the off season!

Can someone give some rationale for not liking, or caring about, the first mechanic change?
This has been a mechanic in college ball for a while and who cares! If the R wants to toss he/she will toss, if they don't they won't. If we (all) take pride in our toss, all officials will be prepared.

tomegun, i asked that of the veteran guys that have asked me to work with them this past year...every time they ask me to work with them last season, i tossed...finally i asked and the only thing i could come up with is they don't like giving the pre-game speak and risking looking bad with a poor toss...personally, i don't mind doing the pre-game speech or tossing...i've been luckily in my short career of officiating of NOT having one blown dead for a retoss...i have blown 2 dead in the same game for a NOT SO VERTICAL toss...i was laughing so hard because the 1st one was tossed to the visitor's side of the court and then my partner over corrected and tossed it to the home's side of the court before getting it straight...that being said, I would say they just don't want to look bad for a poor toss or give a bad pre-game speech...just my 2 cents...!

I agree with Rut: I'm not doing this, and I'm going to tell my chapter people that from a liability standpoint, we'd be better off not doing it as a whole. I like the other changes, though.

Just wondering - what part of the mechanic do you see as a liability issue?

You put the ball down, not realizing the cheerleaders are behind you, and they, not realizing the ball is down and walking backwards, stumble over the ball. In my opinion, there are very few things that we can do on the basketball court that could constitute negligence. This, unfortunately, is one of them.

The basketball on the ground really isn't in its natural position. In football, it is. Further, you don't have cheerleaders legally on the field in football. I'm not saying this is a dead ringer of a lawsuit against you; I'm just saying its one area that I'm not going to take the chance on and I'm going to strongly recommend my chapter not do it as well.

I cannot speak for TA, but I will speak for what I believe it is. If you set the ball down and some unsuspecting cheerleader starts flipping, they might trip over the ball and get hurt. Now I have been a person that has been nearly ran into by a cheerleader during timeouts when they were not supposed to be on the court. And when timeouts occur sometimes I have had to stop cheerleaders from coming onto the court just during 30 second when players were on the court. So I can only imagine how dumb these girls (and the usual guy) will be when you put a ball on the court. They are so eager to jump and do flips they do not look where they are going. I can only wait to see how many cheerleaders will damn near kill themselves when they do not notice the ball sitting on the court. Now I am not talking about college cheerleaders that in many cases only come onto the court during choreographed segments, I am talking about HS cheerleaders that their coach is a parent that tries to wear cloths someone 15 years their junior tries to wear. If these cheerleaders are not smart enough to get out of the way when someone 250 pounds is running in their direction and not looking at them, what makes you think they will pay attention with a ball on the floor?

Did I mention I cannot stand cheerleaders? :D

Peace

Honestly, I do not think this is something any organization will make you do. I doubt anyone even makes an issue out of it. I just think the fact that the NF would even entertain this is silly for the reasons you and I have stated. I do not care what any organization says, I am not doing this. I can stand in the same area with the ball in my arms.

Peace

And how would this be a bad thing? :p

I see your point otherwise. I don't necessarily agree that you would be found liable after a trial, but you certainly could be named in a suit.

Really? Some of my favorite girlfriends in high school were cheerleaders! :)

Fwiw, setting the ball down at the throw-in spot has been a mechanic in NCAA-W for a couple of years now. (Or, maybe it was just last year, with it being an experimental mechanic the year before?) Anyway, I was against it for all the reasons listed above - people tripping over it, kicking it away, taking it when you're not looking, etc. But I have not seen or heard any examples of those problems. The main reason for this mechanic is communication with the players and coaches as to where the ball is to be put in play. Usually the best example of this happens near the end of a game - there's a turnover, the ball goes OOB along the baseline, then there's a TO. The crew might get together near center court to go over things (who's got last shot, watch for the trap on the throw-in, keep an eye out for intentional fouls, white's in the bonus, but blue still has only 5, let's stay in this one, etc.), and that's when usually an asst. coach sticks their head out of the huddle and asks, "Where's the ball?". Now all we have to do is point at the ball sitting right on the throw-in spot.

In most other normal game situations, the official administering the throw-in will be standing right next to the ball, so there are less opportunities for shenanigans and stuff. I was against the mechanic in the beginning, but I've grown accustomed to it.

Good grief. :(

Some people can find a problem anywhere they look. :o

It says you "may" do it. It does NOT say you "have" to do it.

The mechanic for standing out on the floor away, from the bench, when the ball is going to be put in play in front of the bench has not changed.

are you just referring to me? or the others that don't like the changes too?

Good grief indeed!

Ah.....who did I quote? :rolleyes:

The rule has nothing to do with standing in front of the bench. Did we stand in front of the bench last year? No. We moved onto the floor away from the bench. What do you see in the original post that says that's changed? Where does it say you have to put the ball down before going to speak to the opposing coach?

Sad day. :(

I think this is what drew the "good grief" comment. We have all these people concerned about the legal ramifications should someone trip over the basketball while it is on the floor and all the problems that can arise if someone moves/hides/steals the ball.

How about this...since, with one possible exception, the posters here are at least semi-intelligent and observant...IF YOU THINK SOMEONE WILL GET HURT FROM A SITTING BALL OR MOVE, HIDE OR STEAL THE BALL...DO NOT SET IT DOWN!

It states the official MAY set the ball down on the floor (not sure how one would set it UP on the floor, but that is a different discussion), not that the official MUST set the ball down on the floor.

IMO, if you are a good enough official to be assigned a varsity game you should be alert and observant enough to know when it is safe to use that option.

Believe it or not some here even think the MAY is a bad use of language for this mechanic. And believe it or not, someone will not look at this as MAY and might use this as a reason to ding officials over. The point that I have made we did not need this mechanic even as a MAY as apart of the language.

Remember not everyone that uses NF mechanics are 10, 20, and 30 year veterans and will know when to use and when not to use mechanics. There will be some young officials that might do something they read and take it to heart more than someone like me that has been around might know when to pick and choose. Also not all levels are the same. Working a freshman game where 10 people are in the stands are a little different than working a sophomore or varsity game where cheerleaders might more likely be present and the atmosphere is drastically different. I am not concerned about veterans that have been around the game, I am more concern with the newer official that is worried about what they are calling than the many things going on during a timeout which a veteran might do as common place.

Peace

10,000+ post to just over 100 post...hmmm...as Rut mentioned you never know which one of you vets is going to ding a younger guy for something like "MAY" and that something you "MAY" not like might be something you vets already do but just want to ding a younger guy, just because you have more experience doesn't make it right...i guess i need a few more than 100+ posts to get a "little" respect from vets like you...

sad day indeed!!!

Well, I don't have a schnauzer in this particular dog fight but.......the way it works here is that you get respect for <b>what</b> you post, not the number of times that you post.

Back to our regular programming.....:)

predictable!

John, he was responding to something very specific in your post that was incorrect; or it at least had incorrect implications.
Resorting to complaining about how the vets are picking on you? That's your response? Wow.

my bad, my bad...must be the lack of coaches chatting with me or maybe just the cold of the North...my apologies to BktBallRef and the rest of you all...my wife says I was doing the very same thing I dislike the most about this forum...

It makes no difference to me whether you just got here or you've been here 10 years. The info presented in your post was incorrect. Don't be so sensitive about it. It's just discussion.

We all do it occasionally.

You are right...

Sounds good to me, all three.