proper mechanics/signals
 

Fellow officials, I just started calling games (pretty much just thrown into the fire), and would like to know the proper mechanics for calling a flagrant. So far I'm only into basketball, but I bet if you asked me to signal out a call for football, I would most likely be able to do it. I just wished televised basketball games focused in on the official when making the call like they do in football (and hockey) instead of showing the player making a "who, me?" face.

The signal is the same as an intentional foul. Arms raised over the head crossing each other with closed fists.

Actually all you do is call the foul and tell the coach the player or coach has been ejected. There is not specific signal or gesture that makes it clear you have called a flagrant foul. Only have called one of these in my entire career, I did us the "baseball thumb" method in the heat of the moment. I did not have any direction or idea what was right or wrong. Then again remember that most mechanics are suggestions, they are not absolutes. It is also possible the people in your area has a specific policy or mechanic to use either at the table or when calling the foul.

Peace

That is flat our wrong. There is no "officially" recognized signal for a flagrant foul at any level below the NBA. I do not even know if the NBA has a signal.

Peace

You are right but the norm is the INT signal. Wouldn't you say so? Thats what I use and know at the college level it is used.

Considering that I have rarely ever seen a flagrant foul called I do not know if there is a "norm."

Also the college level also does not have a flagrant foul signal. So you what you used was not sanctioned or necessarily correct.

Peace

J-Rut,
In the pro game we make the call just like any other foul but then raise either 1 or 2 fingers in the air depending on if its a Flagrant/Penalty 1 or a Flagrant/Penalty 2 type foul.

The norm is definitely <b>not</b> to use the intentional foul signal for a flagrant foul. I've also never heard of or seen it used at the major college level. That must be local usage only. The reason is that doing so would only confuse anybody watching the signal being made. The first question out of the coach's mouth is naturally gonna be "Why are you throwing my player out for an intentional foul?" Signals are used to explain, not confuse.

As Jeff said, there is no "flagrant foul" signal <i>per se</i>. If there is any kind of possibly universal use, it might be the baseball heave-ho signal.

In the pro game, they also have a travel signal. I don't know "why" though. :)

J.R-

Thats funny, Thanks for the laugh!!! :)

The real answer...
 

Blow the whistle again and raise both fists up over your head.

If you're doing FIBA rules that is :p That signal means a disqualifying foul has been called.

I had a flagrant in a playoff game a few years ago where a girl threw a punch during a scrum for the ball. It was a dead-ball flagrant, so I went T, then gave the baseball heave-ho. The observor at the game told me that, because there is no "mechanic" for a flagrant, this was the best thing to do mechanics wise.

I asked him later what would happen if it would be live-ball situation. He said merely fist for the initial foul call, and then the baseball heave-ho is the next best thing to do. This way, everyone in the gym knows that 1) you have a foul, and 2) you're ejecting the player. He specifically said DO NOT give an intentional signal.

There was a video posted on here (I think) w/n the last couple months that showed a live ball flagrant in a small college game, where the official I think did what I described above...

EDIT: I found the video on YouTube. Watch the far-side official. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WubVH83-Auk

Funny how everyone wants something different, isn't it? I've been told by evaluators to not use the baseball heave-ho as it tends to "rile up" the crowd. Punch the fist up like normal and indicate the type of foul and player who is being called, let your P know what is going on, then tell the coach the reason for ejection and have the timer start the stopwatch for a replacement.

Not that I've ever had to do it in a sanctioned game, but these are the instructions given to me.

Just raise your fist for a foul; don’t do a prelim (if you're calling a flagrant, everyone knows what just happened). Once you have the players under control and your partner is able to keep them under control, walk all the way to the table to tell them what you have. Then tell the coach you've just called the flagrant, and "why" if you feel it's appropriate and necessary. There's no need for signals on the court.

Now, every flagrant I've called was for an actual fight, so a signal wasn't necessary. We just got the players separated, sent them to the bench, got together to collect our thoughts and make a ruling, and walked to the table to report it and called the coaches together to let them know.

Whoaaaaaaa.......sure wouldn't want to rile up a bunch of people that have have been calling me an azzhole(amongst other niceties) for the last hour.:D

Don't give the heave-ho. I don't care whether it riles anyone up or not, but it isn't appropriate. The only time you want to give signals that aren't "approved" is when its going to help you -- assuming you are going to give them at all; I usually don't but there are very limited exceptions. The heave-ho isn't going to help.

I called 2 in 8 seasons, the signal I used was pointing to the door, don't let it hit you on the way out. Although I have seen many variations of pointing to the door LOL

If you're going to point, point to the bench instead of the door.

I've used the pointed finger in the air circular motion (ala SWAT commander telling his team to circle up) then a little touche' point to the left upper bleacher area, after my held fist in the air. :D

And why the bench? A Flagrant foul if is used in nature of violent or savage act is an automatic disqualification, and indirect technical to the bench..

Point to the bench (if you insist on pointing) because that's where the player will be heading. You cannot have him removed from the gym for a flagrant foul. Pointing to the door sends the message that he has to leave the confines, and that sets you up for more trouble.
I don't know of any level where a fighting flagrant is also charged indirectly to anyone on the bench. The only time this happens is if someone comes off the bench to get this T, but that's it and it being flagrant has no effect on whether it's charged indirectly to the HC or not.

Unles I am not reading the rule correctly or mis-administered two time incorrectly the NFHS rule for 2005/2006 read as follows below. I'm sorry i don't have the updated for this year with me.. Disqualifications to mean ejected..


Rule 10 art 8a:1 and 2

Corresponding number from each team - double flagrant fouls, all participants are disqualified, no free throws are awarded, ball is put in play at the point of interruption.
(2) Numbers of participants are not corresponding - Flagrant fouls and disqualification for all participants, two free throws are awarded for the offended team for each additional player, offended team awarded a division line throw in.

Disqualification means sent to the bench. In NFHS ball, you don't have them removed from the gym unless they continue to be disruptive after having been disqualified; and proceed with caution there. They are relegated to the bench. If they leave the gym, they must be accompanied. This, however, is a coaching decision 999 times out of 1000.

Again, where does it say flagrant fouls are, by definition, also charged to the coach? If you have two players (not bench members, but on-court players) start fighting, you don't hit their coach with an indirect.

Gee, judging by this thread, maybe the NFHS needs to define the mechanic for a flagrant. I've only had to cross and toss a player once (a summer 3 on 3 tournament where the player got through the screen by grabbing the screener and throwing them out of bounds). I've never had to toss a coach with a flagrant, but I see no problem with pointing to the showers. If you're tossing the coach, the crowd is probably a pain in the butt already so why worry about their reaction? The only coach I did run was on 2 T's and I gave him the point (yet another summer league. I know why I don't want to work them anymore).