I had a newbie ask me a question yesterday that I found very odd. Both in the fact he sought me out for advice :), and for what was said. Keep in mind he was working a MS game, so the coach knowledge might not be there.

Spot throw-in in front of the table. Coach A sends in two subs. Only one kid comes off. Using great preventive officiating mechanics he counts all his players before administering the throw, and sees 6 kids for A. Tells coach A to rectify the situation. Coach B throws a rod, teling him he was causing an unfair situation for his team. His theory was if the A coach couldn't get a legal team on the floor, it was not our responsibility to do it for him and insisted on a T.

I told him he was absolutly correct by getting the 6th man off the floor and preventing a T. This is our job,and we should never knowingly start with 6 guys on the floor, especially at that level. Now he is having a crisis of confidence that the coach might be right. Has anyone else ever run across this?

PS - If it was me in this situation and the B coach demanded a T, I would have accomodated him...

I wouldn't teach the coach "asking for a T". My reponse always was: "I'd do the same for you, coach."

Preventive officiating is always the best officiating. Tell the rookie he need a good job.

You are correct. Rectify the situation before ball goes into play.

what if this happened after a timeout, and the second horn had already sounded.

You still just wait and send the extra player off, unless the coach constantly does this intentionally to waste time.

Trust me, you'll get less crap for waiting a few seconds to get people off the court than having a play take place with six on the court.

Doesn't make any difference. The timeout substitution rules only specify that it is too late for a player to check-in after the first horn. It says nothing about an extra player on the floor.

When this happens, tell the coach, "New rule this year, coach. You only get five." It usually gets a laugh from both benches.

Not caught in time
 

7th grade boys, B team. Visitors have 6 guys on the floor, and we didn't catch it before the action started. Home team is getting clobbered, and the home coach quickly volunteers, "Don't worry about it." Home team was still at a disadvantage with the extra player, so my partner and I did not issue a T. We did make them play with 5 the rest of the game...

I didn't state my prior post very well--brain shuts down this time of the afternoon! Just suffice it to say that the home team would not have prevailed unless we had disqualified all of the visitors, so the T would have been meaningless. Seemed good sportsmanship by the home coach!

I like good sportsmanship! In our youth league (operated by our church) we will sometimes have a coach ask and be granted too many timeouts. It is not uncommon for the other coach to interrupt and insist the timeout is theirs instead. Thus, no T.

Re: Not caught in time
 

I had a similar thing happen last year at a small school Varisty game. After a timeout in the 4th quarter, my partner and I confirm 5+5 and I put the ball in play on the sideline right in front of the table. I bounced the ball to the thrower and step back. No players were behind me so my focus was down the court. From what I'm told, the player ran out into the floor (from the bench that was to my back) thinking they should be in and across the floor ready to receive the pass, escaping my vision.

People are yelling about there being six on the floor. I count again...sure enough...home has 6. How did that happen??? :-|

After checking with my partner, he confirmed that there were 5 to start with and saw here running out just as I blew my whistle.

The game happened to be a huge blowout, essentialy over in the first quarter with this player's team being down by a lot. I decided to just send her off the floor and continue. The only thing that the opposing coach had to say was "That would be a T in a closer game, wouldn't it?", which I confirmed.

On we played...

you bent a rule??????? better hope denucci doesnt catch wind of this he will recomend that you give up your advocation, be cause he has ref'd for a hundred years and sits on the board of a comittee. careful fellas!

[Edited by crew on Dec 7th, 2001 at 01:46 AM]

Crew,I've disagreed with Mark T. completely before,and may again sometime.I've also agreed completely with him sometimes,and have learned from him(as well as other guys on this board).He is a very knowledgeable official with regards to the rules.Don't discount what he tells you just because you don't agree with it,or don't like how he stated it.

Good point! That goes for a lot of us! :)

I can FEEL the "love"...
 

Yes, just in life... You listen to all and sort out what you can use and toss the rest.....
I LUV this discussion board! :)

Crew - one more piece of advice
 

It can be tempting to lean one way or another on this discussion board and ignore a lot of good advice. You will clearly see some strong personal tendencies from some very experienced basketball folks. These can be influenced by the level they ref, the people they work for, the way their state does things, and their personal style. Try not to fall into the trap of developing a bias against a person (and by extension, what they post) over style and approach. The frequent posters on this board are very serious about their jobs and solid on the rules. Every one of them has some gems, and I disagree with every one of them at some point or another - cause I got opinions too! I will by nature disagree with some more than others, but I learn from all and develop a better appreciation of the complexity of this game by seeing multiple, supportable viewpoints.