I probably should have
 

I am new to this forum and new to basketball officiating. Not that these are good excusses but it's better than none. I was doing a game between two very good JV teams. One point game with a 5.4 seconds left. Team that is behind steals ball on the baseline and then clearly steps out of bounds. I am the lead and I am right on top of it. I make the call, point in the correct direction and the coach of the team that is behind (also visiting) calls time-out and while going to the huddle he asks me if I am sure. I said yes, absolutley, and he told me "It's obvious what is going on here". After the game was over I thought about it and I think I should have given him a T for questioning my integrity. Just thought I would see what some of you thought.

Don't be shy. He thinks he can take a cheap shot because it's subtle. It's not subtle.

"What's going on here coach? What exactly do you mean?? Are you accusing me of cheating?"

He'll either back off or say what's on his mind. What you do next depends on how he reacts.

Sounds like a bright coach IMO. He worded that "statement" just right, the interpretation could be taken a couple different ways. Even though we know exactly what he meant, he left a backdoor open for himself. It's hard to say whether I'd bang him or not since I didn't work the game.

Did you ask him to clarify?
Has he been borderline the whole game?
Had he already been issued a T?

i have had something similar -- my response would be "what's obvious is you just called a timout and your team needs your attention."

This is my preferred method of handling that situation. If he's a jacka$$ he'll probably clarify or say something more to justify a whack. If not, he'll definitely know the next he sees you that you won't be taking any of his mess.

A rule of thumb I was taught is that if you feel you left one out there, you probably did.

I disagree with responding. He's simply looking to blame you for the loss, so he's throwing out a somewhat neutral dig. I wouldn't over analyze it. For me, it goes in one ear and out the other, and we play on.

There's a lot of folks on here that suggest ignoring this stuff makes it happen more in the future. Sort of a, "you always let them get away with..." I disagree. My approach has been to get what's there and ignore what's not, or what would be if the talking kept up. I've had coaches that do stuff like this, and when I have them again, they don't step up the abuse more. Coaches I've worked regularly know I'm going to enforce the rules and I rarely have a lot of problems in that respect.

I agree with Texas Aggie - 5.4 secs left in the game, that remark needs to be ignored. Let the kids win or lose this one, don't let the coach make you the bad guy.

Maybe earlier in the game, depending on who else heard it....

Unfortunately, for this ref, that was not the case. He is new, the coach did not know him nor did he know the coach.

If that type of a statement is ever said to me, I am either going to ask the coach to clarify or T him (depending on his behavior prior to making the statement). What I heard was the coach calling me a "homer", but not in those words. To me he is implying that. If that is what he really meant, it is an automatic T. Allowing the coach to clarify lets him know that "Homey don't play that game" and gives him some wiggle room to back away from the T he may have already deserved. I don't like to T coaches, but have no problem taking care of business if necessary. Also, this is a JV coach - it is a learning process for him as to what can and cannot be said. Something he needs to learn if he wants to move up.

All I'm going to say is you are walking a very dangerous line here.

I cringe when I read statements like those.

You do this, then the perception from everyone else in the room is that the referee engaged this coach, especially from this coach's fans. Then they lose, and it's your fault for putting home on the line, thereby proving his point in the comment he made. Self-fulfilling prophecy & not worth going there OR giving the coach the satisfaction of being able to blame the loss over some "hot-headed ref", which is the story he'll tell his team and his parents.

He would learn no lesson here.

1.) A quick "What's going on coach?" is, IMO, not engaging him. It's asking him to clarify what he just said.

2.) Pardon my french, but who gives a damn what the fans think? If I cared what the fans thought about the game, I would have never considered picking up a whistle. If he says something that's T-worthy, then YOU didn't put them on the line, HE did. I don't care what some stupid fanboys think after the game. My job is the enforce the rules as written, not to make sure the game ends to the satisfaction of the fanboys.

you have a job to do -- the fans are not part of your equation.

Disagree completely. Who cares what anyone in the room thinks? When did we start officiating to please the fans? If someone commits an unsporting act, just call the damn thing instead of making up excuses <nb>not</b>to. And from what I've read so far, everything that you've said is just an excuse not to imo. And "5 seconds left in the game", "let the kids win or lose" and worrying about being "a bad guy" are not very good excuses at all as far as I'm concerned.

There surasheck would be a lesson taught here. The lesson is that you can't get away with crap like that. Do what Dan suggested above and take care of bidness.

That just about about brought a tear to my eye. Just about.:D

I completely agree with that logic.

Good, coach. I'm glad at least one of us knows!:D

Good no bang! That statement could be taking in a good or bad way. If you bang he can reverse his statement on you saying i didnt mean it that way. I meant you were being fair. Dont assume! If you bang you have interrupted the game and your great game has been dismantled. Think preventive officiating.

eesh.

1. Any coach who makes this comment and then claims it was meant as a compliment is a liar of Imus proportions. Which is why I make them repeat it in an clear, uncertain manner so they cannot deny it later.

2. Game interruption and preventative officiating is camp-speak for don't cause trouble. If your life strategy is to not cause trouble then get out of officiating.

OUCH! But point well taken. Yah we all no that remark by the coach is regarding towards us, but I'm saying, it would take a lot more to tech than something little like that. There is book officiating and there is common sense officiating. Yes by the book its a tech, but have 5.4 which is ample time to get the ball back and heavy prayer if that can be the case. Just my philosophy though. Working h.s. and college I incorporate different things into my game. If coach told me that, I wouldn't tech him. Some would. we are all different.

Why do people try to use something like "by the book officiating" as an excuse to <b>not</b> call a "T"? And why do people try to say that you need to use "common sense officiating" to back up what is <b>only</b> their opinion of what common sense actually is? If a coach calls you an azzhole with 5.4 seconds to go, are you going to ignore that also because if you call it, it's "book officiating" and not "common sense officiating"?

I guess that my idea of "common sense officiating" is completely different than yours. Common sense officiating to me means that you simply take care of bidness when you have to, without making up phony excuses why you shouldn't penalize unsporting conduct. Common sense officiating also means to me that you clean up the unsporting crap so that the next set of officials might not have to deal with it either.

We'll just have to disagree on the meaning of "common sense", I guess.

I understand what you are saying, but in this case the coach didnt call you a vulgar name. If he does then by all means stick him or even run him depending on the vulgarity. That happened to me in a college game this past season. Coach said F YOU I stick him. 2 mins left he made a 15 pt comeback and lost. we had interrupted dribble and he was yelling for time out. I dont grant steal and layup. Grant the time out he comes up to the table yelling at me I wanted time, I said let me tell you why I cant grant it, he was like dont talk to me and walking back he says F YOU. I wack him. No brainer. In the scenario we are talking about would you really stick a coach for that comment?

No one cares what levels you work.

That said, the OP is not a HS or college official he's a new guy, so camp-speak like game interrupters is lost on him at best. At worst it's going to confuse him and make him think it's OK to take all sorts of sh1t from coaches in the name of your holy game management.

Sometimes game management means having the balls to take care of business.

If he owned up to it, yes I sureasheck would. If he was smart enough to keep his mouth shut when asked about it, no.

I don't believe in ignoring unsporting behavior just because there's only a few seconds left in a game. I don't believe in ignoring it at any time. And I also agree with Dan_ref that your "game interrupter" and "preventive officiating" comments are basically nothing but excuses <b>not</b> to call a technical foul. If you're not preventing somebody from committing an unsporting act, I can't see how anyone could ever call that "preventive officiating".

I should clarify. I am new to basketball officiating but I have Umpired baseball for 11 years. I asked my partner what he would have done after the game was over. He said, given the situation, I probably made the right decision. The coach was OK for the whole game until that one moment. My only problem with not asking him to clarify was, Does he really think I am home cooking him? or is it just a heat of the moment comment. Either way his team lost and he didn't have a TECH (or me) at the end of the game to blame for the loss. I guess it's one of those things to remember and hope if it ever happens again I will use good judgment and not fly off of the handle. But it sure is funny how certain calls we make (or don't) seem to stick with us.

Absolutely.

He gave himself the rope and tied the knot. By asking the follow-up, you're letting him bring himself down from the gallows. If not - ring him up.

I would like to appologize to the room. I did not know OP was a new official. I very sorry for any confusion. I'm sorry if I pissed any of you off as well. I'm just saying what I would do in the situation. OP is technically correct, that he should've given a Technical Foul. I'm sorry for any confusion OP, Sorry for getting any of you upset as well.

Whoa there. No need to apologize to anybody at all. You gave your opinion. We disagreed with your opinion and told you why we disagreed. That's all. No biggie.

Btw though, it might not be a bad idea to forget about constantly mentioning the fact that you do some college ball. There's a whole bunch of officials here that have worked higher levels of college than you and for a much longer time also. In some areas, it's a lot easier to break into JUCO and D3 games than it is is to get a good high school varsity schedule. The fact that some people do college games at whatever level doesn't really give their answers any more credibility than the rawest rookie posting here. We're all wrong occasionally, no matter what, and we're all here to learn.

That's <b>my</b> opinion anyway fwiw.:)

Thanks man. It's just that I hear from camp and my fellow officials at all levels. I have incorporated and modified it to my game and want to pass it down no matter what level it is. I'm trying not to sound big time or anything like that. I don't want you guys to think I have stick up my A$$ or anything. :)

I will have to disagree with some here. I have no problem with you talking about the level you work. It gives me and many others perspective about where you are coming from. Also those that say you should not talk about the levels you work they will be the first to ridicule those that do not work at a certain level. A few people cannot speak for all of us. Unfortunately we cannot see everyone work on the court so all you have is what you talk about here. It is other people's problem if they cannot deal with what you do.

Peace

You mis-interpreted what I said too. It's not about the level that someone works. It's about someone trying to imply that their post <b>must</b> be correct because they might work at that level. Big difference.

But he does blame you for the loss. You made the oob call on his player that prompted the comment in the first place. Don't think for a moment that this immature coach does not blame you. He does.

But his blaming you should not make a difference in how you feel or what you call. You know you made the right call. You know you did your best. You know you called a fair game.

So, you know how he feels and you know how you feel - then he makes the stupid comment of how it is "obvious" what is going on. That comment is "obvious" to me of what he is truly implying. I can't fault you for walking away. But as said earlier, I would ask the coach to clarify his statement. You are putting it back on him - to either back down or to step up and really earn his T.

Just don't delusion yourself into thinking he doesn't blame you, he does.

I never read that into his posts. I think he was just talking about what he does and his experience. Even if he felt he was "right" then you and others have the right to disagree with his positions.

Peace

Great quote. I wish more officials had this attitude.