NCAAA Final
 

Officials:
Hess
Greene
Corbet

Someone tell Packer to shut up. Not even 3 mins in he said the first foul was ticky tack. He need to put the shirt and blow a whistle.

1st Half Notes
 

Some things I noticed from the 1st half.

19:35 Oden & Horford get locked up in paint and continue all the way up the court. I'm sure the crew was probably thinking "Oh great here we go" :p

13:17 Great call on red player pushing white player under the basket. It was during a throw-in.

12:00 Fast transition play where red player "reaches" across body of white player but looks like zero contact and especially no disadvantage.

3:09 Oden knocks the ball away after he dunks the ball. Should have been a delay of game warning!

23.0 -> 12.3 seconds! This is the time that ran off the clock when the trail runs ahead of the ball handler and doesn't even look at him for 5 seconds (0:20 -> 0:15). What if he accidently double dribbles or something else happens (like a ten second back court violation) :eek: It serves NO purpose to run ahead of the play. I've ssen this a couple of times during the tournament.

Half Time Skit: "Hand" me the trash can so that I can puke :D

What a boring game... Hope the last 5 mins are better

It was only as good as your spelling. :D

2nd Half Notes:

First of all I thought overall the officials did a great job! :) Anything that I mention are just small observations.

17:22
Great call by Lead. I was surprised that the C did not call this.

16:27
Oden keeps pulling himself up on the rim and slapping the backcoard. This tells me to NOT call this in my college games because if they are not calling it in the Final Four or the Championship game then it must not want to be called.

15:31
Oden hits the ball AGAIN after a made basket. This NEEDS to be called for at least a warning!

14:13
Good call by C, the play opens up to him and he calls it even though it is across the paint.

12:10
Good call by Hess in C.

10:30
C drops down when the play comes to him instead of rotating up. I've noticed this a number of times in the tournament. Is this taught in some areas? I have always gone to the high side when the ball swings around.

5:15
Was the player OOB or was the timeout not granted? If he was not OOB then it should have been Florida's ball because he was not airborne when requesting a timeout.

2:31
Great call, possibly an intentional foul with the red player tripping the white player when he was shooting. (The red player was on the ground.)

He landed OOB.

Miffed!
 

When did calling across the lane from L or C become "en vogue"? Countless times this happened tonight...and in the whole men's tournament. It has left me baffled. If I make these calls @ camp, I'm getting my a$$ chewed...probably by the same guys who are making these calls in their tournament games!

When did the goal become: "Get 100% right not only in YOUR primary, but your partner's also."

...when it used to be: "Get 100% right in your primary, and only reach out when absolutely necessary!"

After watching the tournament, I'm pretty convinced the L is supposed to call the WHOLE lane. In fact, it's the main reason we had a blarge in the semi-final game the other night.

how about the celebration after the game -- defintley unsportmanlike -- i think each player should have recevied a T and the gators should have lost due to forfeit. i cannot believe the officials let that slide.

I don't agree with the Lead calling across the paint all the time. If you watch the NBA officials they hardly ever call across the paint because they are already over there.

I do agree with C making a call that he/she has the best look at. The play were the player with the ball curls towards C and away from Lead or Trail creates an alley that usually only the C can see. If C doesn't make this call then Lead or Trail are usually guessing on a reach.

Officiating is all about the angles that we can obtain in order to see and judge the plays correctly.

I was watching the Phoenix & Dallas game on Sunday and there was a rebounding play outside the paint on the block closest to the bench. The trail official that was opposite the table made the foul call because he was the only on that was not straight lined and guessing on the play. He was able to look right through the players and could determine if the push in the back warranted a foul. There are times like these, that if I was C, I would say "thanks partner" instead of "stay in your primary" like some would say.

My 2 cents :)

I agree that there were too many calls across the lane in the tournament. I try to hold my whistle across the lane unless a secondary defender comes from my area and jumps in front. I know somewhere here there have been posts with statistics from the pros on how reaching across the lane leads to a lot of missed calls. I thought they did a great job last night, although I thought Oden should have been stuck a couple of times for hanging on the rim, the Florida player should have been stuck for his little shimmy dance after a dunk, and Noah very well could have been stuck for his throwing 2 hands at an official after his 3rd foul in the 1st half. I just hate seeing this stuff happen on that big of a stage because you know it is going to trickle down to us. As another member of this forum said recently (making me choke on my adult beverage, "Noah is absolutely the best women's player in the nation, hands down." :D

I'm not talking about the NBA...I'm talking about the NCAA tournament. L has called across the lane MORE than I can EVER remember! The whole freaking lane seemed to be the L's responsibility at times...and the C was all too often not involved. What have we heard for years? "The key to a well-refereed game is having a strong C."

I'm not talking about these plays. I couldn't agree more with this point.

Again, I couldn't agree MORE!

Again, COULDN'T AGREE MORE...but these are NOT the kinds of plays I'm talking about.

What was unsportsmanlike? I turned the TV off right after the Florida kid threw the ball straight up in the air with about 1.5 seconds left. What happened after that?

That's a joke right? I get it. You're joking. Please tell us you're joking.

Unless what you saw happened before the clock ran out, the officials likely had their backs turned and were halfway down the tunnel.

It was a big game for these guys too, but all in all, the game was a success. I'm sure there was some gitters out there, not wanting to make a mistake, not wanting to miss an obvious foul, etc. The bottom line is the game was well played and well refereed. The players decided the game and you could barely tell the referee's where even out there. There was nothing obvious that was missed IMO although my partner didn't think they where calling enough fouls for Ohio State. I told him Florida just played like a championship team, they didn't miss very many open shots. What I like is now these guys have some big time expereince and will be more relax the next time, if they get selected again.

You didn't read his sig, did you? "in OS I trust"

Everyone who had OSU as their final pick in their bracket agrees that the game should have been forfeited to OSU.

Corbett should never officiate another big game
 

Corbett set the tempo for the final game and it is all but amazing that the Florida Gators were able to win this game. It is testimony to Donovan keeping his composure and his players able to step up and hit big shots when it counted down the stretch. I have TiVo and could review each call as it was made. The foul called on Horford at the beginning of the game was a "message" call. One of the worst calls in a big game I have ever seen. Corbett and crew clearly intended to protect Oden and make him a star. There was nothing any of the Florida players could do. If they touched Oden they were whistled for a foul. Even when Richards had his arm against Oden's back to keep Oden from leaning back and pushing him down under the basket Richards was whistled. Just absolutely atrocious officiating, particularly by Corbett. Just awful.

And your analysis is based on what rules interpretation or POE?? Do you officiate many games? Shoot ANY games? Or are you just speaking on behalf of "joe fan"? The answer is obvious.

Go away, dickhead. NCAA fanboy season ended last night. Sorry, but we're now closed to idiots like you until the NBA playoffs start.

Shoo, shoo......

I gotta agree. Florida did a tremendous job of overcoming an official that was obviously out to make sure they lose. They let Oden get by with murder and didn't blow the whistle. Jeez, you'd think out of an entire nation of officials they could find 3 that are unbiased. (I just thought I'd try to post like a fan and see how it works. :D )

Keep to facts, don't attack the messenger
 

I had no dog in this fight. I actually reside in Cincinnati and pulled hard for Ohio State to defeat Florida in the football final. My point is clear and there can be no disputing it, Oden was the media darling and the refs, particularly Corbett, were set on making him a star. Oden has been hyped all season as though he were the next Alcindor or Walton. The guy is not even remotely close to either in skill set.

But, again, sticking to the facts, how could you interpret Horford's defense on Oden as a foul a minute and a half into the game? How can Richards be whistled for a foul for placing his arm, not elbow, up against Oden to keep him from backing him down? You know as well as I do that an official can make or break a player or game? Corbett was hellbent on doing that last night. Perhaps he has aspirations of moving up to the NBA. Who knows?

I've played a lot of basketball, both high school and college. You needn't attempt to denigrate my observations by classifying me as simply "joe fan." In fact that tells a great deal about your mindset regarding those who are watching this great game.

Our "mindset" is that 99.9% of the fans who don't officiate are clueless regarding how a game is officiated, while 90% of the fans think you just steal a referee shirt from Foot Locker and start working college games.

So, again, how many NCAA games HAVE you officiated? How many games at all? Fanboy, go home.

That's what champions do. They step up.

I'm sure the officials pregamed that they didn't want Oden to get in foul trouble early with nothing ticky-tack. If you're going to call one on him, make sure it's legitimate.

If you're talking about that foul call on the break where there was no contact. We talked about that in the bar last night, and the player has to take some ownership of getting that call blown against him. He doesn't make that swipe, official has no reason to put air in the whistle. The thing about it, is anybody can make a mistake. If I'm going to make a mistake, I'd rather do it early in the game then late in the game. The point is, you didn't continue to see calls like this thru-out the rest of the game which tells me this was a call to get the referee going. Now that I made that first call, I'm ready to officiate. I call it getting settled into the game. I thought they settled into this game very nicely because the 2nd half was very well called.

It's easy to sit back after the fact and say you would have did this or that. Let me tell you, when you're working big games like that. There is another element you can't see. It's call stage fright, being in the lime light, front and center stage. You got to get those pre-gitters out of you just like the players do. We all get it and if you say you don't you're lying. Once you start running and getting into your routine, things start to settle down for you and you begin to see and think clearly. That be the way it is...no exceptions, nobody escapes this.

Give me a break. Perhaps if you knew anything about officiating, you'd know rough post play has been a POE all season, and particularly in the tournament. It was a foul, called early in the game because.....IT WAS A FOUL. If you for one second believe that Corbett was biased in his officiating, then you are absolutely insane.

The "joe fan" classification is appropriate for you. You're not interested in having a well officiated game, but rather, with "letting them play." I mean really, why do officials call traveling, especially the little ones. We should just "let them play." The game is over, Corbett (and the rest of the crew) did a fantastic job, and I would say all of them will be in the running for a repeat performance next year.

I haven't watched the NBA for years. It is no longer basketball. Do you know it was a foul if you even touched a player when Dr. Naismith invented this great game? It is a shame people of your calibre are even allowed to put on the striped uniform. Too many officials have become so intimidated by the star players and coaches that they cower over their disapproval. They are like puppy dogs seeking approval from those who may propel their careers to new heights, or at least allow them to officiate the big games.

The game is in a sad state right now. On a positive note, though, with a good new director and commissioner college and professional basketball could be returned to its greatness once again, BY SIMPLY ADHERING TO THE RULES. Imagine that!

You wouldn't know a rule if it bit you in the A$$!

Stupid monkeys.

BC22, IMO, you make some very good points...but I can also guarantee you, they will not be heard here.

Gee, let me be the first to apologize. I didn't know that you <b>played</b> basketball. That obviously makes you an expert on officiating.

Just to set the record straight, no one called you "Joe Fan" either. The term usually used here is "ignorant fanboy azzhole".

Sooooooo......piss off, fanboy.

Shoo, shoo.......

I know that you weren't talking about the NBA but my point is that in the high school and NCAA level (on average) the officials don't get into position as fast and as well as the NBA officials do.

I watch NBA games just so that I can watch where the officials place themselves on the court. From my observations they do a hell of a job getting in the right place at the right time. I will pause the television when they are about to shoot, or on rebounding, etc. in order to see where the 3 officials are at that time. When I do this with high school or NCAA games I tend to see more officials straight-lined and/or out of position.

Agreed 100%! The NBA officials are the very best at getting into position. They virtually NEVER get straight-lined!

BC I agree with you that the game is in a sad state. The salaries in the NBA, the troubles of recruiting and the graduation rate of a student athlete, the hip-hop culture of the game to the point where the athlete thinks he can do whatever he wants without consequences, all of this may have or may not have anything to do with the STATE of the game. What you fail to understand is this is an officials forum. If you or Indy are insinuating that the current state of the game of basketball is due to the officials not "adhering to the rules", then you (fanboy), and refs like Indy and OS don't have a clue. In today's high tech environment, there is very little that an official can and cannot do that is not so closely scrutinized by people with actual rules and mechanics knowledge. In some cases, if not most, every call we make can and is scrutinized by supervisors, assignors, evaluators, clinicians or whatever. So for you (fanboy), and people like Billy Packer to insinuate that the game of basketball is in a sad state due to the officiating is totally asinine. My .02.

Playing is not officiating. You look at the game from a biased point of view. This is a forum for officials. You are more than entitled to your uneducated opinion, but you probably won't get anyone here to agree. Go out, contact your state, become an official, work some games, then come back with an opinion and we might give you some credibility. Until then, you are in the wrong place to complain.

Who moderates this thread?
 

Who is the person moderating this thread? Why would 'Dan ref' be allowed to make an obscene post, as he did with post #25?

You are new here. ;)

Peace

I didn't see anything obscene. I'm actually impressed with his restraint on this thread, but that's what happens when fans show up. :D

What makes it obscene?

Is it because the monkey isn't wearing pants?

Yes, I just registered. The site was brought to my attention by a friend just a few minutes ago who was banned from the site for expressing his opinion on the final game last night. He said he had registered as BC22. Is dissent not allowed on this site?

I don't see anything obscene.:confused: Just a monkey cleaning the sleep out of his eyes. ;)

If your talking about his foot, he is holding his right foot's toe..............I think :D

Sure your friend.................:cool:

Yes, dissent is all over this place, but as you might have noticed it is an "Official's Forum" not a place for fans to come complain. Your friend was here complaining about things he doesn't understand because he is not an official and evidently the moderators decided we didn't need him around. This time of year we always get some fans that want to whine about calls and that isn't welcome here. Now if you are a fan or official and you want to ask an intelligient question about the rules of basketball and how they are applied, we welcome you...until you start acting like an ignorant fan.

Great! They're like rabbits.

Im gonna catch me a Wabbit
 

At least rabbits are cute and cuddly.

Who wants some cheese with all this Whine?

You say this is an "Official's Forum." Is it associated or linked to any official organization of officials or is it a site where a guy or a group of guys who officiate, either part time or full time, wanted to chat with their buddies, and decided to start a forum?

Thanks for the laugh! :D:):D:eek::D:p:D:o:D

The Official Organization of OAOS. (Officials Against Old School) :D

That is exactly what this is. Fans that want to whine are not treated very well around here. We hear enough of that from the stands in the regular season. Like I said, we welcome intelligent questions, but if you want to whine about how the game was called, find a place where the rest of the Florida fans are talking and go there.

It is a site started by officials for officials. I have no idea why it was created, but it was created for officials. There is a paid site associated with this board and the rules are set by the owners. This site is to mainly talk rules and officiating situations and philosophies. We are not here to rip on officials without a discussion of a rule or philosophies. If you are fan and you have a legitimate question or want clarification I know myself and others are glad to answer your questions. If you are hear to rip on the officials based on things you will never understand and do not want to understand, it is time to leave right now.

Peace

Can you recommend any good non-officiating sites that welcome open and honest discussion? What would be the top 3?

I doubt many of us even look at sites like that.

Peace

Fair enough. Here is one I have wondered about for years. Coach K at Duke for years has chosen to use the charge as a means to draw fouls and prevent opponents from driving too aggressively to the basket. However, it seems the line has been crossed in that too often it has become dangerous for an offensive player to go airborne. The rule, as originally introduced, makes sense. An offensive player should never be allowed to drive over a defender. Shouldn't the benefit of the doubt be given to the offensive player since he is the one most vulnerable? I would love to see more blocking calls made rather than charging calls.

What's sad about this whole thread is that the orignal poster, while perhaps not tactfully stated, really did have a valid point.

I actually counted 2-3 plays in the first half where I, based on the types of fouls that were being called, expected Oden to pick up a foul but he did not. Far less contact was called a foul against the Florida big men but Oden was permitted more contact. Why? I have no idea. I'll make no claim that there was anything sinister behind it.....it may have merely been due to the position the refs had....but Oden did get lucky to avoid a whistle a few times.

By the way, challenging the integrity of an official is not considered "dissent." Your friend accused the official in question (whom none of us here know personally, most likely) of directly, consciously, and purposefully favoring Greg Oden over the other players in the game. It's calling him a cheater, and without evidence, that kind of thing doesn't go over too well around here.
Banned? I have my doubts.

Not really, apparently he got worn out from playing too many minutes. :)

Since this seems to be the Official Fanboy Stupid Comment Thread, I'll post this tidbit here. Those of you who know me know that I have no life and so I get great joy from dumb things like the Tony Kornheiser radio show. I love the show, I love PTI, I love Tony and Wilbon together (not that there's anything wrong with that).

This morning on Tony's radio show, Wilbon said that was "angry" about the officiating in the Final Four because "the officials are too stupid" to let the big men play. I was shocked by that, b/c I don't remember ever hearing Wilbon make comments about any sports' officials being stupid. :(

Don't look for Wilbon on PTI tonight, tho. He's playing golf in Arizona.

This is taught at all levels, not just Duke and not just college. The point is to have the offense not run over someone. How about teaching the offense how to shoot a jump shot?

Currently the rule says if the defensive player gets into position before the offensive player leaves the floor, the offense is responsible for the contact. How would you like to see the rule changed?

Basketball is a contact sport (sometimes a collision sport). If you do not want to run into a player that is standing in your way of the basket, learn to dribble round someone or shoot over them. The rules are not going to change anytime soon if you ask me on this issue. BTW, most players do not want to take a charge. So this is not a major issue.

Peace

Excellent strategy. I'm with you so far.

It can be dangerous to launch yourself airborne and forward if there's a player in the way, or if a player steps under you while you're airborne. It's less dangerous to simply jump straight up within your own vertical plane. So I would disagree with your generalization, but I agree that certain plays can be dangerous, especially when a defender steps into the shooter's path after the shooter is already airborne.

Nonesense. If the offensive player has the hops to jump over a defender, more power to him. No player (offense or defense) should be allowed to push another player and displace him.

No. The rules specifically say (the high school rule is 10-6, the NCAA rule is 10-21) that the dribbler has the greater responsibility in contact situations. This is because the dribbler has to EXPECT to be guarded. Once the dribbler leaves the floor, no player may move into his path. But until he becomes airborne, the ballhandler has the greater responsibility to avoid contact on a legal defender.

Why exactly? If the defender gets to the spot first and is not moving forward when contact occurs -- charge!

This is a good, legitimate question and you've gotten some good answers. Personally, I like the rules as they are. Playing defense is hard enough without making it more difficult to draw a charge. The key thing to remember is that every player, offensive and defensive have the legal right to their spot on the floor. What determines a block vs. a charge is whether or not the defensive player has established legal guarding position. To put it in overly simplified terms, the player responsible for the contact should get the foul.

I'm sure Oprah, Dr. Phil, and "The People's Court" would be in my top 3.

I agree with you 100%. The player responsible for the contact should get the foul. It appears that a disproportionate number of calls have been made in favor of the defensive player even when the defensive player has NOT established position, imo.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion. I can assure you that when you are actually on the floor, things look entirely different. Officials are taught to referee the defense so while you, as a fan are probably watching the ball, the official is watching the defender get into position. Before I was an official, I was very much a fan. I'd sit in the upper deck yelling and screaming about calls. Then, after the first minute of my first game, I realized that it was much different when you are actually out there and I didn't have any idea what I was yelling about. :D

How do you define establishing position?

I ask because we've discussed quite a few plays on here recently that have been on national TV, and most have either been extremely close or have been unanimously (among officials here anyway) considered to have been legitimate PC fouls.

In fact, I think the one time there was disagreement here over a nationally televised block/charge call was when the call on the floor was a block, and we pretty much agreed it should have been a charge (also, however, that it was close enough to forgive the block call.

I understand where you are coming from. It can be one of the most difficult plays to call in basketball. When I watch a game, though, I do review it (via DVR) a great deal while the game is going on and in the vast majority of times I would say I get it right the first time. Not all the time but certainly more often than not. Just as all officials are not entirely competent by taking courses and suiting up, not all fans are out to lunch, as some seem to feel on this site. I have played a lot of ball, have received my fair share of accolades in the sport, and even officiated my boys at the lower levels. I have seen good officiating and I have seen atrocious officiating. It comes with the turf. We are all human. What I am getting at though, regarding the correct call on the charge/block issue and so many other intracacies of the game, is the game seems to have somewhat spiraled out of control. I am not putting the blame on the officials as much as I am those who oversee the direction of the game. I know the officials only implement the rules dictated to them.

What does this mean?

You sit on the couch with beer in 1 hand and remote in the other mumbling "yep yep, he go that one wrong too" while 'reviewing' the calls and no calls made during a televised games?

How precious.

This takes us back to my earlier question. How would you have the rule worded, then?

You sound like a pretty well informed fan. You'll find, around this site, as long as you are asking legitimate questions and considering the responses before you reply, you'll get some pretty good information. You are correct that the game has changed over time. Athletes are bigger and stronger and the powers that be (NCAA administrators, assignors and coaches) do dictate how the game is called. If you want to continue to work in their leagues, you call the game they want. For better or worse, that is the way it is at all levels. A good example is the Oden hanging on the rim thread. I completely understand why he isn't given a T at that level for obviously violating the rule. As a fan and an official not moving up the chain I'd like to see that T called because it is something in the game that I don't think belongs there. Just to show I'm not biased, I think the Florida player that did the little shimmy-dance after he dunked should have gotten a T as well, but then I'm not on that game and the officials that were are there for a reason. :D

How can you say that, Dan(he said in an outraged voice)?

Didn't you read the part where this gentleman said that he had played a lot of ball? And not only that, he has also received his fair share of accolades in the sport? That certainly should mean a heckuva more than the poor schnook that only reads the rulebooks, learns the mechanics, does hundreds of games at all levels to get experience, goes to camps, and then spends many years learning about officiating before finally working his way up to getting some NCAA assignments.

I really think that next year the NCAA should hold a lottery and let 3 winning fans officiate the final game. The only prerequisite to enter might be that they have "played the game". Or maybe "watched the game" if they think that those restrictions are too severe.

Does anybody think that Tony Greene got told by Hank Nichols that if he turned down the NBA that he would all but work the NCAA Championship? Just throwing it out there. Do you think he got told anything of that nature?

That's exactly what was said. Hank realized the shortage of quality officials and he knew if he kept losing them, he would have to start pulling them Old School officials out of retirement. :rolleyes:

Maybe he could give some new guys a chance?!?! :eek:

If you would actually read the rules, you'd know how that action could be interpreted as a foul. However, you obviously haven't read them, but still you feel that it is your right to come on here and state how poorly the game was officiated, and how wrong the calls were. You are simply "Joe Fan" who thinks that he knows the rules, but really doesn't. Like 99% of those out there, you've played, but never officiated or even seen a rules book, yet you believe that you know the rules. Got news for you, your experience with the game doesn't make you an expert on NCAA officiating. You merely open your mouth and criticize before you use your mind to get fully informed about the situation. That is why you get ripped by the real officials here. BTW that is sticking to the facts.

Now here are the rules citations that you haven't ever read from the 2007 NCAA Rules Book which detail how that forearm could be interpreted to be a foul.

Points of Emphasis for Men
BR-17

Rough Physical Play and Illegal Contact

For the 10th consecutive year, an aspect of rough play is a point of
emphasis. This length of time demonstrates the rules committee’s consistent
and persistent concern that rough play must be properly addressed.
Furthermore, it highlights the need for improvement in the officiating of
rough physical play and illegal contact in the collegiate game. Motivated by
the basic premise that the collegiate game of basketball is a game of skill, it
was the committee’s contention that the officials’ focus of attention shall be
directed toward eliminating rough play and illegal contact in the low post,
off the ball, in cutting and screening situations and during hand-checking
anywhere on the playing count.
When illegal physical contact, with or without the ball in the low post,
results in a player attaining an unequal favorable position, an advantage to
perform has been gained by that player. It is consequential to observe the
offensive and defensive play in the low post from the beginning since rough

play and illegal maneuvers may cause and affect subsequent physicality.

Of special concern is the play, without the ball, in the low post by the
offensive and defensive players. An offensive low post player, dislodging a
defensive player from an established position by pushing or backing in, shall
be called for a personal foul. A post player who uses his hands, forearms
or elbows to prevent a defensive player from attaining or maintaining a
legal guarding position shall be charged with a personal foul. The player
using the “swim stroke” movement to lower the arm of an opponent shall be
assessed with a personal foul.
Likewise, a defensive low post player who uses his hands, forearms
or elbows to prevent an opponent from attaining or maintaining a legal
offensive position, shall be charged with a personal foul. Furthermore, it
shall be a personal foul when a defensive player pushes with his leg or knee

into the rear of the offensive player.

APPENDIX III / OFFICIATING GUIDELINES BR-183

Section 6. (Men) Post Play

Some guidelines to officials in making correct, consistent calls in lowpost
play:
a. Observe the entire play, especially when responsible for off-ball
coverage.
b. Anticipate the play but not the call when post players are in fronting
situations.
c. A defensive player pushing a leg or knee into the rear of the offensive
player shall be a personal foul on the defender.
d. An offensive player dislodging a defensive player from an established
position by pushing or backing in shall be a personal foul on the
offensive player.
e. A player using the “swim stroke” arm movement to lower the arm of an
opponent shall be charged with a personal foul.
f. Post players using hands, forearms or elbows to prevent an opponent from maintaining a legal position shall be charged with a personal foul.

Let's stick to the facts and knock off the epithets. It only weakens your case.

There are two key points from the rules posted.

1) An offensive low post player, dislodging a defensive player from an established position by pushing or backing in, shall be called for a personal foul.

2) Likewise, a defensive low post player who uses his hands, forearms
or elbows to prevent an opponent from attaining or maintaining a legal
offensive position, shall be charged with a personal foul.

Oden was leveraging his position, alternating his shoulders and his seat, to back in, constantly. This is illegal. The defender had his position established. By contrast, referring to point 2, the Florida players were not using hands, forearms or elbows to prevent Oden from attaining or maintaining his legal position. They were doing it to prevent him from backing down. They were not pushing him out of his position.

In addition, Corbett was totally inconsistent with the way the rest of the tournament had been called, which is why I reached the conclusion I did. Again, I tip my hat to Donovan. He obviously made it clear to his players what the scenarios might be, mentally preparing them for possible outcomes. They kept their composure and he wisely distributed the fouls among various players once he saw how the game was going to be officiated.

Look, I'm no Gator fan. In fact, I would have loved to see UNC win it. I just want to see an unbiased, fairly officiated game. The officials should be there to ensure the game is played fairly, by the rules, with no advantage given to one team over another.

I couldn't agree more. Oden, and any other player, who does a chin up on the rim while dunking should be hit with a foul, no questions asked, and that malarky would stop pronto. It makes me sick when I see officials allow this kind of garbage. It is not part of the game. If guys like Nevadaref and the rest are going cite chapter and verse from the rule book how can they possibly defend the officials allowing this? Corbett and crew should get some courage and stop that nonsense in its tracks. It was lucky Oden didn't kick anyone in the face. And the only reason he didn't is because the others players got "the message" early on. Oden is a looming star, don't mess.

Do you honestly think the officials give a sh!t who the star is? Or do you think the NCAA told them to protect this kid? Sounds like a conspiracy to me.

How about trying to give an honest answer rather than be a wise ***? Why didn't they hit him with a T when he was doing chin ups and kicking his shoes into other players' faces?

Nobody has commented on this, did anyone else see this? I am not saying that in this particular play that a 10 second call should have been called, although by rule it could have been called, BUT what I don't think is a good idea is to run ahead of the ball handler ESPECIALLY if he's not looking over his shoulder officiating him.

Because they haven't called this T all year, especially in the tournament. We've all asked the same question, go check out the relevant thread on it.

I'm being a wise-a$$ because you're accusing the refs of cheating.

THIS IS NOT DUE TO THE OFFICIALS PERSONALLY ALLOWING IT. IT IS BECAUSE THEY WERE TOLD NOT TO CALL IT FROM THEIR SUPERVISORS. SO PLEASE WHINE ABOUT THE SUPERVISORS AND/OR COACHES BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES DICTATING THIS!

I made this point in an earlier post. I realize they are only the foot soldiers, following orders.

I'd like to see an unbiased, fair fanboy too.

Note: that ain't you, fer sure.

You obviously don't know anything about officiating. Why don't you take your prejudices to a fan site. That's where you belong, not here.

Yes, I saw it. I see a lot of DI officials do this. My thing is it had no bearing on the outcome of the game, but from a mechanic standpoint, it's bad and something I clearly will not do if given the opportunity. There is a reason they call it the Trail.

In the overall sceme of things, you got a DI player bringing the ball up the court with no pressure on him. Let me get on up the court and get in position for where I need to be. I can go with the shot clock to tell when he needs to be in the frontcourt. What are the changes that a DI player double dribbles, carry the ball from the BC to the FC with no pressure on him? Very very slim. I think it's wrong but here's the deal, he's working the game and you and me is watching the game. Knowing how hard it is to get to this level, I'm sure he has paid his dues and has earn the right to work the game the way he's feels the most comfortable. IOW, it's his game to screw-up. Everything worked out though.

I don't understand why you guys are so upset with the officiating of this game. This was a great game to watch. The players from both teams where so good, they overcame any shortcomings from the officials. Oden got to play, didn't have to sit out because of foul trouble which probably hurt Ohio State more then it helped them. They're are use to him being on the bench in the 1st half and having to step up to carry the load. Doesn't matter who referee'd that game, the results where going to be the same. Florida State came to play. They deserved to be champions, they played like champions, unselfish. Rarely do we see a team this good and that dominate.

Get a life, JR. Go dog somebody else.

Sorry, but I get sick of know-nothing, jerkoff fanboys who wouldn't know a rulebook if it jumped up and kicked them in the azz. Clowns like you and your departed buddy get old real quick. And your personal "past-due date" was hours ago imo.

You're just another La-Z-Boy Warrior. We get 'em here every year about this time.

Now, why don't <b>you</b> go dog the officials somewhere else?

Shoo, shoo.....

Whose Country Is This?
 

Let me get this straight. Are you accusing Corbett of unfairly officiating this game with bias?

If you could learn to use proper English I just might give you an answer.

Oh good.

You refuse to answer him because he (in your opinion) lacks credibility due to his poor English skillz (that's how you ballaz spell it I believe).

Some of us believe you lack enough basketball credibility to discuss rules issues with you.

Stupid monkey.

Go back to your beer & clicker.

Well, truth be known he's serving 6-12 for killing an annoying fanboy.

He got a lenient sentence for obvious reasons.

I've corrected the only potential grammatical error in my post, just to call you on your cheap bluff. Now answer the question.

If you're going to challenge my grammar on "of" verses "with," that's your right. Other than that, my English was quite proper in that post.

A cellmate would know. Bunk beds or single mattress?

Curious, eh?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Well you just outed yourself as a liar. I only cited posts by BC22 and yet here you come taking it personally and writing "which is why I reached the conclusion I did." The fact is that you and BC22 are one and the same, yet you stated that he was "a friend". You are clearly a liar.

Furthermore, I was not debating the minutia of the rules with you or your "friend". It would serve no purpose to do so with a nonofficial. However, I clearly answered the question that was asked: "...how could you interpret Horford's defense on Oden as a foul..."

I provided clear rules support for how an official could INTERPRET his action as a foul. If you don't believe that YOU would have judged it a foul that is up to you. You are entitled to that opinion, and perhaps someday when you are standing on the court at the Final Four with a whistle, you can make that decision. For now you will have to accept the judgment of the man who was there. Lastly, you are NOT entitled to come on here and accuse an official of outright cheating when you haven't even read the rules.

Yup.<i></i>

And entirely too interested in what goes on in a jail cell when the lights are out, IMO anyway.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...just kinda ickey.