Woman's College Mechanics
 

After doing high school for a number of years I am going to a woman's college basketball tryout camp.

Anyone have a simple outline of the woman's college mechanics.

Thanks

Make'em up as you go... ;)

get the CCA womens college manual for Referee Magazine. If you want simple you will be simple at camp, if you want the right the stuff get the manual.

Do you need to know the coverage areas as well? I believe that the women's coverage areas are the same as HS for 3-person -- EXCEPT that the Lead 's area doesn't stop at the 3-point arc; it extends all the way to the sideline. So in NCAAW, the Lead has primary coverage on a 3-point shot from the corner.

The coverage may also be slightly different regarding where the T and C coverages meet above the 3-point arc. In HS, the Trail has primary coverage all the way to the far lane line; but in NCAAW, they might split the top of the frontcourt right down the middle.

Mechanics-wise, NCAAW differs from HS in a few ways: they "walk and talk" while reporting a foul, and they use 2 hands to give the fouler's number. The right hand is the 10's digit and the left hand is the 1's digit, so that it reads normally to the scorer. So they report just like the NBA refs.

NCAAW also give responsibility for the last shot to the Center official always. It's NOT the official opposite the table, as in HS. Whoever is C, takes the last shot. This means that in the last shot clock possession of the half (or game, or OT period), the officials "lock down", they will NOT rotate. This is to ensure that there's no confusion over who the C is for the last shot. I believe the Lead may still come ball side if he/she needs to, but the outside officials will not complete the rotation. As I said, I think this is only in the last 30 seconds of a period.

I think those are the major ones. Coverage, last second, and reporting. There are obviously rule differences too, that you should be aware of, but I'm not the person to ask about that.

If I've got any of it wrong so far, somebody who's more accomplished than I am on the women's side will correct it for you.

Good luck at camp!

All correct -- but the T/C split is the far side of the lane, just as in other mechanics.

Short and sweet, women's mechanics is exactly like the NBA. Some of the coverages areas I think is better than HS and college men's. For instance, the Lead marks the 3 attempt in his coverage area which means when the ball is deep in the corner, strong side, the lead gets to ref that area which he should because he's closer to it.

In reference to the guy explaining the C gets the final shot. That is true, but what's left out of the manual that most may not know is the crew tries to get the C opposite the table. It works the best when the C is opposite the table and has last second shot.

Some rule differences that I really think hurts the women's game. No closely guarded 5 second count on the dribbler and no 10 second back court count. This really takes the excitement out of the game.

Scrapper has it right

But get the manual
there are suttle differences in what you are looking to be looking at
and baseline positioning (which is a big deal)
but the manual is th best bet.

What camp?

Absolutely 100% not true...more made-up garbage...jdccpa, read what Scrapper wrote and take that to heart...Old School is correct on the no 10 second count and 5 second count only on a held ball (anywhere on the court)...but the part I quoted is incorrect and no crew I have worked with in the past 10 years has ever done that...

Not on any crew I have ever worked.
Why would you do that?
I have never seen a table with a clock?

We do have a lock down at the 5 second mark on the shot clock or game clock so that you are in position to make the call. But we encourage rotations we look for reasons to rotate so the C position could change a couple of times inside the 30 second posession.
I have never purposely locked the C inthe oposite position on one of my crews!

Make sure you have a really good pregame. I heard not long ago that the women's mechanics were possibly on the way out and we would all be using men's. Anyone else hear rumblings about that? I think the Lead coverage areas in women's mechanics really takes away a lot of the advantage of having a 3 person crew. I work it, but I certainly don't like it. :)

Actually heard it the other way around that we would all be going the route of Womens mechanics

If you work it alot with a crew that is comforatble in the transitioning primary areas I like it better than the mens.

but it comes down to what you are more comfortable with.

In men's and HS, it's always opposite the table. Going forward, I did mention that this was an unwritten rule. The reason is obvious, we want opposite table but we want the C to have it. Kind of like the best of both worlds.

I think the coverage area from the Lead deep in the cornier is better. If the ball is deep in the corner and the Trail 28 ft away has primary. The lead still has to keep one eye on the play in case the ball goes out on the baseline. It just makes more sense to have the Lead referee that area. The Trail and C 28 ft. away can take care of anything else at the boards. Should the pass go into the post from deep in the corner the Lead simply turns his head with the ball and slides down to cover this area.

Again, absolute rubbish...it's an unwritten rule because it does NOT exist and no one in their right mind does it that way...at the NCAA level the clocks should be mounted on top of the backboard (anyone who actually worked that level would know this) and so being opposite the table has absolutely NO bearing on who has the last shot in NCAA-W basketball...

This is an incorrect mechanic. Once the L picks up the ball in the deep corner in his/her primary, it is now the trail's responsibility to watch the post. If the L would simply "turn his head," L would have no idea how either the offensive player or the defensive player got there.

So, again, if the L picks up the ball in the deep corner, the trail picks up the post action.

Well we are going to have to disagree on that point because like I said I have never come across it in the womens game - in any pre game or last minute discussion we have had going in to a possible last possession in my time - but maybe you guys do that.

I can tell you this, you better not let an observer, catch you failing to rotate for that reason.
I have seen crews get reemed for not making late rotations, (not to put the C in the opposite position), but just failing to make a needed rotation late in a game or half.

I hope we don't all go to women's. My main gripe about it is that, to me, the biggest benefit to the 3 person crew is having that lead down there working the post. You are in close proximity, you see things, you can communicate with players and really clean up the game. To me, having the lead go out to the corner and officiate matchups in the corner takes that advantage away.

Trail will also "chop" to start the time when the play is inbounding in the FC by the lead official

That is what the C and the T are for.
If you have a match up that you can not give up the T shouldn't give up the ball, when you take the ball the C has the weak side and the T helps on the strong side. The proximity is different but it works well - you have to trust your partners and communicate

I agree. Trusting your partners and calling your area is important. I just think the proximity to the paint is a major advantage of 3 person mechanics.

Question: FOR NCAA MEN, in Frontcourt, does the T administer the throw in when the ball is below the free-throw line extended? Or is it the L's responsibility?

I know in NCAAW, it is the "L"s responsibility. In HS, it is the "T"

Please verify

(HS) Not necessarily. If it is on the lead's sideline, the lead may bounce the ball up the sideline to the thrower (and stay lead). Above the FT line, the lead will switch and become the T.

Now I'm confused... why would the L switch to become T on OOB?

CR, you are referring to the 2-man mechanic, correct? I think he's questioning 3-whistle.

Our State HS association uses women's college mechanics, so the L administers this throw-in. Not sure if the men's mechanic is different.

Yes, I was referring to 2-man mechanics. For 3, I would be incorrect and he was right all along. :D

True on the first part, but once the Lead doesn't have anything to officiate in the deep corner, he comes down to get that and has primary over the play. The T will verifiy thru eye contact that the L now has the play and be secondary on the play. Kind of like when you have the dribbler from the T and he moves into the C's primary. The minute he picks up the dribble, it is now C's responsibly. You still need eye contact from the C before you let it go.

Eye Contact or body language (square up to the play) to let you know that he/she's got that matchup

I totally agree but what you fail to understand is the reason why. Let me try to explain. If you're late in the game (HS/Men's NCAA) less than 5 seconds to play and the game is close. Then you have a quick turnover and now the last shot is in transistion towards the other bucket. If I was still the T, I would become the new Lead and have to get all the way down to the other end and still have last second shot responsiblity because we're locked. If you can make the T the C, and lock the C opposite the table, you now have the best scenario (for the officials) for the last second shot at either ends. If the C is table side, you get a quick turnover, you got the bench players jumping up, etc., coach standing up, etc., the best scenario for us is opposite the table and the C with the responsiblity.

Body language to confirm that he has it before you release it. good point!

that's the rationale for making the opposite side the C in NFHS and men's mechanics. It has nothing to do with making the C the opposite side in women's mechanics.

There is no rational from the NF and certainly not on the NCAA Men's side. This is largely a personal mechanic that many people want to do (mostly those that work Women's college ball if you ask me). Most officials do not want to rotate to make the C opposite table. You still need to officiate and arbitrarily moving just for the last second shot is rather stupid if you ask me. For one, the issue of the last second shot is rarely an issue. But some contact will be an issue. The bottom line this has little or nothing to do with what the NF or CCA suggests. I have never seen this in writing. This is something people.

Peace

In NCAA-W
The lock down is for rotation - meaning that since the lead does not move to the other side of the floor causing the C to become T and the T to become C there is no change of last second floor or in this case clock responsibilities.

In NCAA_M ( I believe there is no lock down) so a last second rotation can affect who has last second shot responsibilities. as could a last second transition because the the T and the L swap duties so the clock responsibilities either stay with the C or are exchanged by the new L and new T.
In transition since the C remains the C there is no changing of resposibilities and less of a chance of getting burned on the last second shot.
As far as bench personell being in the way, I disagree, if you are moving as you should to get the best angle on the play you can step out onto the court to avoid the bench personell - who if they are on the court and in your way there is whole other set of problems that could occur.
So I still say that the women have it right because every one knows who has clock responsibilities from the get go and it doesn't change a second before the shot goes off, there is time to assume the responsibility and be ready to handle it.

True and I never said it did, but it is the reason why the women and NBA go with the C here, period.

I totally agree with you and I did say it was an unwritten rule. I am in the camp to referee the game and go wherever you need to go to referee the play, lockdown or not. Also, something not mention, we are all responsible for the last second shot. So if we have a switch in responsibilities on the last second shot, we are all responsible and anyone that has definite knowledge should step forward. We where talking about the definition behind the rule or letter of the law.

My understanding is that the Lead can come across the lane to officiate the post, but that the T and C do not complete the rotation; the L is expected to go back to the side of the lane where he/she started. Is that incorrect?

This is false. The official opposite the table has the last shot. So if the C is opposite the table, he has the last shot. If we have a rotation, he is now Trail, but is still opposite the table and so he still has the last shot. The rotation does not affect last-shot responsibility at all.

This is true. In a quick transition, or steal-and-heave situation, the last shot responsibility will change if two officials are opposite the table. The new Trail will have the last shot in those situations. But since we all know that, it's not really ever a problem that I've ever heard of.

Closely Guarded
 

The closely guarded rule is a little different too. It is anywhere on the court, not just in the front court, as mentioned. The defender must be within 3 feet and it must be the same defender for the whole 5 second count.

This is something we I always pregame when I work with new people, but personally I don't like to lock down. We know what the responsiblities are as far as the last second shot. I like to rotate with the play and have the best look at the action no matter what time is on the clock.

You are correct.

I have never heard about having the C end up opposite the table. I can't think of any reason to do this.

And it's only during a held ball.

Gotta disagree with that part Jeff...it's not something I have ever seen or heard of - I think it's mostly in Old School's warped little universe.

Scrappy
I should have said that a last second rotation and a transition could change who has last second shot coverage.

Either way you look at
There is no demand (written or unwritten) that tries to move the C to the opposite for last second shot.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. I am simply saying that this is a personal mechanic, not something widely endorsed by these officiating bodies. There are people that want to do these things during NF games because they are so caught up in doing Women's mechanics, they think everyone is interested in those same mechanics. This is not something just in the mind of one person.

Peace

Crews that I have worked with have stated that they like to do it this way. Some people just like having the C opposite the table for last second clock responibilities.

As a side note to earlier discussion, in Pro (and NCAA - W mechanics also, I believe), if the possession starts with 4.9 seconds or less the clock is the responsibily of the C, regardless of which side of the court (table-side or opposite). 5 or more, it is the T.

That can't be right, can it?

I'm disagreeing with the statement that it is a NCAA-W mechanic...it's not, never has been, and so I disagreed with your saying that that is where people are coming up with that strange idea.

And for SeanFitzRef, that is not the NCAA-W mechanic...C always has the clock, regardless of how much time was on the clock when the possession started...

No it's not right for women's. Women's mechanics is center has the last shot always.

What is not a CCA Women's Mechanic? You just said the very same thing I did. Your response to SeanFitzRef just confirms that. Am I missing something here?

Peace

Now I'm confused too...someone posted that they always want to rotate so that the C is opposite the table for last second shot coverage. I thought you agreed with that and said that it was coming from NCAA-W...I disagreed that it came from there...then you asked what I disagreed with and I told you what I disagreed with and then you asked if you were missing something so I posted this reply...and like I said, I'm confused now, too...

Bottom line - C has last second shot, but there is absolutely no need or reason to rotate so that the C will be opposite the table...

At least I think that's what we were talking about...I think I need a vacation. Maybe I should go on a cruise this weekend or something! ;)

Maybe all this confusion is a great reason to dump women's mechanics and use the men's? ;)

What I was agreeing to is the fact that the C is the "calling official" for the last second shot. Many HS officials that I have worked with are adamant to allow this to happen in HS games. Since NF Mechanics say the "opposite table official" are to call the last second shot, I see many officials just move regardless of where the ball is at to make the C the person who is opposite the table. I was not saying that this complete procedure was what the CCA Women's mechanics do. Just making a comparison as to why officials do this. This is in no way a CCA Men's Mechanic and in no way is the NF Official's Manual mechanics. This is a hybrid drawn up by many officials that use work mostly CCA games. Also to be fair there are some that do not work Women's NCAA Basketball that advocates this procedure. I personally find it a silly mechanic and unnecessary, but that is because contact or a violation or foul is much more likely than having to rule on a last second shot. I only had one or two times this past year where I even had to think about ruling on a last second shot, but many plays where contact or a violation took place near the end of the game.

I was originally responding to something Bob J said. I was only referring to the aspect of the C always having the last second shot. I was not getting into all the parts of the conversation that were had before. That probably is where the confusion came in. I am not blameless in the confusion.

Peace

I think we should all go on a cruise to eliminate all of our confusion(s).

Know of any good deals, rocky?

At NCAAW camps, we were taught to lock down at about the 15 mark. C will always (always always always) have last second shot. Not sure about the NBA. NCAAM and NFHS, it is opposite table unless discussed during pre-game. Some HS gym only has one clock on one side of the gym. We've had games (2 person crew) where the L gets the last shot since he/she has the best look at the clock.

The location of the clock should not matter to anything dealing with the last second shot.

Peace

Try servicing schools that the horn goes off about a second or two after it hits 0:00. Then I think it is essential to look at the clock

Usually it doesn't. But I have been in gyms where there is only one clock and scoreboard, behind one of the baskets. If I'm working 2-person, we might pre-game that the official facing the clock has the last shot, only because it will be in their line of sight. It rarely happens, but it is something to be aware of when you pre-game.

Exactly!!!

The horn is what ends the game, not the clock saying 0:00.

Also I do not know how you can watch the clock and the play at the same time. You are going to miss something. What do you do when the clock is overhead and the clock is not in your field of vision? I cannot speak for you, but I cannot watch both.

Peace

The clocks are almost never positioned in a "perfect place." Once again, I think it is really stupid to be watching the clock when the play is what is important. I would rather not see the clock, and then miss a play trying to watch something that is not in my peripheral vision. If it works for you more power to you. But if you are working with me, I am not going to be watching the clock on the last second shot. What you should do in my opinion, is take a responsibility for the horn and the clock as a non-calling official and give help when needed. There is no need for this call to made instantaneously when there is 2 or 3 of you that might have information to get the call right.

Peace

It's not clock-watching so much as just being able to see the clock. If there's 3 of us, it won't be an issue. Also, in most gyms, there's a clock visible on both sides of the court, so again, not an issue. But there's those rare times where we might work 2-person at a small school, where there's only one scoreboard on one side of the gym. In 2-person, the T has the last shot. But if play is at the side of the court opposite the clock, the T would have to turn their head completely around and away from the players to catch a glimpse of the clock. All the L would have to do is glance up with their eyes to catch the clock, and still keep their head facing the players. It's not "by the book", but it makes things easier for those rare instances. The pre-game is where that would be covered, so there aren't two people looking at the clock and no one watching the players... :eek:

I try to glance at the clock around 3 to 5 seconds and then listen for the horn. Like Rut, though, I'm not looking away from the play to watch the clock. If the horn isn't working, you'll know after the first quarter and can adjust from there. Usually, this amounts to nothing more than setting the horn to automatic.

Yes - I agree that the horn ends the game. But what if the officials know that the horn is going to have a split second delay and in order to ensure that the shot is released in time, one of the officials must keep an eye on both clock and shooter. Given we have definite knowledge that the clock will delay, we need to modify our officiating to suit the scenario. That's why we have that new rule - lag time elmiated (5-10-1). ALthough this is related more to adding time back to the clock, but "when an official has definite knowledge relative to the time involved, he/she should have the ability to put the correct time on the game clock. I beleive if we have knowledge that the time is expired, we have the power to wave off the last second shot attempt too.

It is also true that while watching the shooter, it is difficult to monitor the game clock. But we need to try our best and call what the game fairly. In terms of "missing something", the 2-person game stinks as the game can never be called perfectly. Think of a fast break scenario. The new Trail hustles down the court and often run past 2 or 4 players to trail the play. What if those 4 players started fighting? Mechanically, we are supposed to "box-in the players" but since the "T" has to hustle down the court and officiate that play, we are opening up the opp. for the players to assult each other. What i'm getting across is the 2 person game is more difficult to officiate. But we will need to try our best to officiate the game even if it requires us to call and/or see the game differently to get the play right.

MORE POWER TO ME - YAY! Thank God for slantly eyes!!!:D

So basically what you are saying is that we were both saying the same thing all along...I can live with that.

And no, M&M - don't know nothing about no stinking cruises...

To Rocky,
 

I do not think we are disagreeing as much as it appeared. I think I did not make my disagreement as clear and that is the confusion. I was making a different point than you were apparently.

Peace

The horn does not have to be simultaneous with the clock. It has become more and more the case with clocks with tenths of a second on them, but even then there are situations where that are still not the case. The speed of light and sound also travels at different velocities which could affect your decision if you rely some much on what the clock says. Depending on the gym you are in, it is very possible that there is going to be a delay in one from the other. If the NF and NCAA want to change the rule, I might go along with you. But the horn ends the game, not what the clock reads.

My priority is the play and the players, not the clock. So you can say we can watch the clock and the player, but I have yet to find that easy. The only time it is easier to do both on some levels is if you are working in a college gym where the time is on the shot clock. If the clock is located on the wall, when the ball goes to certain spots on the floor, then the clock is completely out of your vision. Not sure how you can watch a shooter with your back to the clock at the same time? I know I do not have eyes in the back of my head. And this is even harder in 3 Person where you do not have the liberties to move as you would in 2 Person. So you can say "try our best" all you like, but it is sometimes impossible to watch both. Trying to convince people they can is in my opinion irresponsible. Secondly, what you are talking about requires the perfect floor configuration. If you have a completely different floor configuration, then this makes it even more impossible to accomplish.

As I said earlier, if I was working with you, I would make it clear I am not doing this. I would be watching the players and not the clock. I remember a game where an official wanted me to watch the clock while I was on table side and take the last second shot. The ball moved to the corner and I had to turn my head away from the clock and other than what I was counting in my head, I had no idea what the clock was saying. There is a reason officials have to go to the monitor to change clock issues in NCAA games. If they could watch both, then there would be no reason for looking at the monitor. You can do this all you want, you are not going to convince me to change my opinion.

Peace

If it's one second, then the clock is working properly.

That is, if tenths of a second are not displayed...

Correct -- and since the poster indicated "0:00" that would indicate that seconds only (not tenths) are displayed.

I have only run across this one time but at Ursuline College in Cleveland Ohio this season I saw that their Game clock had Hundreths on it.
First glance scared the hell out of me
it read 0:86. :eek:

I thought I was at a track meet

Or the other way around.