Originally Posted by Big2Cat

The final shot in the Hoya game. I am so tired of these announcers who don't know the rule. They kep talking about how his left foot was the pivot foot and that as soon as he lifted it, he traveled. Why won't these networks just hire an official that knows the rules? Drives me crazy. It was mainly Seth Davis.

Originally Posted by mick

If your's is the same play that I recall, I thought he may have lifted his pivot before he released the ball for his dribble.

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

The final shot in the Hoya game. I am so tired of these announcers who don't know the rule. They kep talking about how his left foot was the pivot foot and that as soon as he lifted it, he traveled. Why won't these networks just hire an official that knows the rules? Drives me crazy. It was mainly Seth Davis.

Originally Posted by mick

If your's is the same play that I recall, I thought he may have lifted his pivot before he released the ball for his dribble.

Originally Posted by truerookie

IMO, his left foot was the pivot foot. Not only did he lift it; It was switch throughout the movement. He stepped and pivot on the right foot turning towards the lane lifting the left. Then, he stepped (with left) and pivot towards the baseline with the left resulting in the successful shot.

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Oh my goodness. They are talking about him changing his pivot and it should have been a walk at HALFTIME of the USC/UNC game. They still think it should be a walk when he lifted his pivot foot.

Originally Posted by mick

If your's is the same play that I recall, I thought he may have lifted his pivot before he released the ball for his dribble.

Originally Posted by ncaabbref

It really favored the "up and under" move that the women use quite a bit that the fans always scream "walk" when i see it. But I think that he pushed off the right, stepped with the left and shot.....I am presently listening to the idiotic announcers on ESPN act like they are experts. once again, "ugly"="travel" in the minds of the uneducated, especially Doug Gottleib. That little snot nose pretty boy doesn't know crap....

Originally Posted by TRef21

I thought it was a travel when I first saw it. On the replay i thought it was also, I would like to see it again though. Even if it was, in that situation would you call it? Just a thought...

Originally Posted by mick

If your's is the same play that I recall, I thought he may have lifted his pivot before he released the ball for his dribble.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That may be true. That was way up top near the three point line after he first received the pass. He slid his right foot a bit and then may have picked it up slightly before the dribble was released. It was close and is not a call that is made with that kind of precision the vast majority of the time.
So passing on that call is no big deal. Of course, that part of the play is not what all the announcers are talking about.

The part AFTER he lost the ball momentarily and then regained it is what is being deemed a travel. They are wrong.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

As officials we need to advocate and educate the media on not only the rules but how we apply them, i/e what constitutes a block/charge call in basketball, what kind of tag in baseball always means an out, how is interference in football judged...etc.

Originally Posted by TRef21

Even if it was, in that situation would you call it? Just a thought...

Originally Posted by TRef21

I thought it was a travel when I first saw it. On the replay i thought it was also, I would like to see it again though. Even if it was, in that situation would you call it? Just a thought...

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Case in point was the Oden foul in the Xavier game. None of the game announcers, sportswriters, or the Xavier coach made much more of the foul than what it was, a foul. Yet officials on this forum wanted an intentional foul called based, solely, on replays and youtube video.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The part AFTER he lost the ball momentarily and then regained it is what is being deemed a travel. They are wrong.

Originally Posted by Coach Jinx

I love GT & it was a travel! It was a travel if he was playing in the NBA! Patrick Ewing didn't walk that much when he played with the Knicks.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I taped the game because the Hoyas were playing. I have gone back and watched the play several times. Here are the facts:

1. Green loses the ball on the play so there is no pivot foot that matters until he recovers the ball.

2. Once he recovers the ball, he steps with his LEFT foot, thus his RIGHT foot is his pivot.

3. He now does a reverse pivot with his back to the basket by stepping with his left foot. He finishes the move by lifting his right foot, spinning towards the end line on his left foot, and without ever touching his right foot to the floor jumping off his left foot into the air and making a one-handed shot.

Since the pivot foot was lifted, but not returned to the floor before the ball was released on a try, there was no traveling violation. Good basket, the announcers know nothing, and Georgetown wins!

Originally Posted by Coach Jinx

I love GT & it was a travel! It was a travel if he was playing in the NBA! Patrick Ewing didn't walk that much when he played with the Knicks.

Originally Posted by tmp44

At one point last night, I think it may have been after the UNC game, CBS showed a replay where Green, before he did the legal move that we're all talking about (the pivot, push off, shoot move), as he started his pivot w/ his right foot, he lifted it up and put it back down.....and when I say lifted it up, they were zoomed in on it so that only the foot was on the screen (a la the Kentucky 3-pointer of last year). And yes, he did lift his pivot foot by about 1 inch and put it back down as he was doing the pivot move before he made the shot.

That being said, at live game speed, there is no way an official could have seen it. CBS slowed it down and zoomed in on ONLY the foot. If only we had it so easy.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Case in point was the Oden foul in the Xavier game. None of the game announcers, sportswriters, or the Xavier coach made much more of the foul than what it was, a foul. Yet officials on this forum wanted an intentional foul called based, solely, on replays and youtube video.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

As officials we

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I taped the game because the Hoyas were playing. I have gone back and watched the play several times. Here are the facts:

1. Green loses the ball on the play so there is no pivot foot that matters until he recovers the ball.

2. Once he recovers the ball, he steps with his LEFT foot, thus his RIGHT foot is his pivot.

3. He now does a reverse pivot with his back to the basket by stepping with his left foot. He finishes the move by lifting his right foot, spinning towards the end line on his left foot, and without ever touching his right foot to the floor jumping off his left foot into the air and making a one-handed shot.

Since the pivot foot was lifted, but not returned to the floor before the ball was released on a try, there was no traveling violation. Good basket, the announcers know nothing, and Georgetown wins!

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

The final shot in the Hoya game. I am so tired of these announcers who don't know the rule. They kep talking about how his left foot was the pivot foot and that as soon as he lifted it, he traveled. Why won't these networks just hire an official that knows the rules? Drives me crazy. It was mainly Seth Davis.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Stupid monkeys.

Originally Posted by boiseball

in the insider stuff from jay bilas it appears that he attacks the people who said Green traveled; I do not have insider, just read the summary on espn: says something like, "to those who thought it was a travel, read the rules"

Originally Posted by Jay Bilas

Take a Walk to the Rulebook: I was in San Jose for the West Regional, so I watched the Georgetown-Vanderbilt game in the East Regional from afar. When Jeff Green hit the game-winning shot for the Hoyas, I did not believe that he traveled. When I heard different commentators from the different networks say with a great degree of certainty that Green had walked and the officials had missed it, I disagreed.

What Green did was a legal move and is, in fact, taught by many coaches. Green did a simple step-through move that is used in up-and-under moves and in the use of a hook shot, and is legal. I went to the Rule Book, to Rule 4, Article 66, Section 4(a), which states that once a player establishes his pivot foot, the pivot foot may leave the floor as long as it is not brought back to the floor before the ball is released. Green established his right foot as his pivot foot, pivoted, and went up for the shot off his left foot. All of that was completely legal under the rules.

It may have looked like a traveling violation to some, but it was not. When such a move is called as a travel, most coaches argue to the officials that it was a missed call.

The only argument regarding a violation that has any merit, in my judgment, is the view that Green moved his right pivot foot well before he got into his move. However, that was only visible super close-up and in slow motion. It was nearly impossible to see in real time.

I have heard some say the officials couldn't call a walk in that situation because the players are supposed to decide the outcome of the game that late in the game. I disagree. If Green had walked and it was called, the players would have decided it. But Green did not walk. What he did was a legal move under the rules. Not everyone, including me, knows the rules as well as they perhaps should, but the officials generally do. I think they got it right in the Georgetown-Vanderbilt game.

Originally Posted by popejohn2

someone email this to cbs.

Its over and dont know if its been mentioned already, but to preserve the greatness of Jeff's play, I think its worth mentioning. After going frame by frame reviewing the CBS 5x magnification of their feet, I noticed the following:

1. Jeff was pivoting to his right on the balls of his right foot, which is perfectly fine.

2. As he was doing so, Shan Foster slipped the front part of his left sneaker under Jeff's right heel which was uplifted.

3. When Jeff went to pivot back to the left (to make his ultimate shot), he shifted the weight on his right foot back onto his heel. But he stepped on Fosters sneaker, and this caused:
(i) Green had to move his right foot slightly forward as a result of stepping on Fosters foot and Foster yanking his foot away.
(ii) Foster to yanked up his left foot (a natural reaction everyone instinctually does when someone steps on your foot). If you look at the replay, if you didnt notice Jeff had just stepped on his foot, you would wonder why Foster would pick up his left foot so high off the floor and TO HIS RIGHT as Green was moving LEFT. The natural defensive reaction would have been for Foster to shuffle his left foot to the left along with Green. STEPPING ON FOSTERS FOOT IS WHAT GAVE JEFF THE OPENING BETWEEN FOSTER AND NELTNER. FOSTER WAS TOO LATE IN CLOSING THE GAP BECAUSE HE WAS MOVING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION AFTER GREEN STEPPED ON HIS FOOT.

So Green did not travel as it was Foster who put his foot under Jeffs and Fosters removal of it caused Jeff's to move forward. And Fosters instinctual reaction when his foot gets stepped on caused him to lose defensive position, and ultimately, the game.

Originally Posted by hoops77

How come nobody mentioned the call botched in the SIU-KU game?

Originally Posted by hoops77

You must not have watched the game cause Chris Lowery certainly cared. Dick Enberg & Jay Bilas also both agreed that the ball was still in his hand when the shot clock expired. The NCAA should care about obvious blown calls like that.

Originally Posted by hoops77

You must not have watched the game cause Chris Lowery certainly cared. Dick Enberg & Jay Bilas also both agreed that the ball was still in his hand when the shot clock expired. The NCAA should care about obvious blown calls like that.

Originally Posted by hoops77

How come nobody mentioned the call botched in the SIU-KU game? Julian Wright dunked the ball clearly after the buzzer but the officials still counted the goal. The before mentioned Jay Bilas even said that the ball was clearly still in his hand when the shot clock expired. It wasn't even a close call but it was blown.

Originally Posted by bluenred

Very good point. Hank Nichols could not have been happy at all. It would have been different if it was a bang bang call. But it was not even close. The 3 referees who blow that simple call should be left off the Final 4. I feel sorry for Southern Illinois. The outcome may have been different if not for the horrible mistake favoring the #1 seed. Kansas got several other breaks in that game. Cheap fouls were called on Southern Illinois on one end but they allowed Kansas to get away with fouls on the other end. It is very sad when the higher seeded team gets special treatment from the referees.

Originally Posted by bluenred

Very good point. Hank Nichols could not have been happy at all. It would have been different if it was a bang bang call. But it was not even close. The 3 referees who blow that simple call should be left off the Final 4. I feel sorry for Southern Illinois. The outcome may have been different if not for the horrible mistake favoring the #1 seed. Kansas got several other breaks in that game. Cheap fouls were called on Southern Illinois on one end but they allowed Kansas to get away with fouls on the other end. It is very sad when the higher seeded team gets special treatment from the referees.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yeah, they missed the call. Now, Mr. All-knowing Fanboy, do you want to tell me why the officials didn't consult the courtside monitor to review the play and see if there was indeed a shot clock violation? :p

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

"Replays seemed to suggest Green traveled by picking up his pivot foot. None of the three officials saw it that way." :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

When you hear things like this, it makes you wonder if they think a jump shot is a travel. How can you take a jump shot without lifting your pivot foot, LOL?

Originally Posted by NothinButAFan

I have an additional question. Green was pivoting on his right foot, planted his left, spun around it and elevated and shot. Let's say he was trying to gain a little more distance and instead of pivoting and stepping on his left, he jumped to his left. So the move was similar, but his right foot left the ground before his left one landed. Is this a travel? The NBA rule book says "If he alights with both feet, he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor", by which I think it would be interpreted as a travel; I'm not sure if there's a similar college rule, or if it's implied one way or another. (This came up in a pickup game yesterday when someone made a similar move.)

Originally Posted by NothinButAFan

I have an additional question. Green was pivoting on his right foot, planted his left, spun around it and elevated and shot. Let's say he was trying to gain a little more distance and instead of pivoting and stepping on his left, he jumped to his left. So the move was similar, but his right foot left the ground before his left one landed. Is this a travel? The NBA rule book says "If he alights with both feet, he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor", by which I think it would be interpreted as a travel; I'm not sure if there's a similar college rule, or if it's implied one way or another. (This came up in a pickup game yesterday when someone made a similar move.)