Last shot question

[doghead]

NFHS Question:
Scenario: Girls' HS Varsity Scrimmage. Three person mechanics. Ten seconds left to play. Ball is in B's frontcourt. I am the 'C' (therefore I have the last shot). A1 steals the ball with 2 seconds left, guarded by B1. I'm still 'C' with last shot responsibilities. A1 goes up for the lay-up on the buzzer but does not release in time. I immediately indicate "no good". At that very moment I hear my partner's whistle (Lead) for a shooting foul. Uh-oh!!!

I ask my partner if she did not see me indicate "No good". She said, "Yeah, so, I can still have a shooting foul". She lined the gal up and gave her two free throws.

Is this possible? Help me out here. Thanks.

[Mark Dexter]

Yes, this is possible.

If the foul is before the horn, but the release is after the horn, the basket is waved off, but it is still a shooting foul - if it matters, 2 shots with the lane cleared.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by doghead
NFHS Question:
Scenario: Girls' HS Varsity Scrimmage. Three person mechanics. Ten seconds left to play. Ball is in B's frontcourt. I am the 'C' (therefore I have the last shot). A1 steals the ball with 2 seconds left, guarded by B1. I'm still 'C' with last shot responsibilities. A1 goes up for the lay-up on the buzzer but does not release in time. I immediately indicate "no good". At that very moment I hear my partner's whistle (Lead) for a shooting foul. Uh-oh!!!

I ask my partner if she did not see me indicate "No good". She said, "Yeah, so, I can still have a shooting foul". She lined the gal up and gave her two free throws.

Is this possible? Help me out here. Thanks.

Sure it is. The horn only affects whether the ball is released in time or not. The shooter can be fouled, even if she never releases the shot.

[RecRef]

Originally posted by doghead
NFHS Question:
Scenario: A1 goes up for the lay-up on the buzzer but does not release in time. I immediately indicate "no good". At that very moment I hear my partner's whistle (Lead) for a shooting foul. Uh-oh!!!

I ask my partner if she did not see me indicate "No good". She said, "Yeah, so, I can still have a shooting foul". She lined the gal up and gave her two free throws.

Is this possible? Help me out here. Thanks.

It is as Mark said, “if it matters.” If it does than look at the process step by step. B1 was fouled by A1. The horn sounds.

Was this "in the act of shooting” foul? (From your post the answer is yes) Let’s say that it was not, than the next question to ask is it a bonus situation? In either case you go to the line if it matters because the foul was before the buzzer.

[RecRef]

Just a side note.

This brings to mind my worst day ever on the courts. Years ago as a young ref I was doing a 9th grade girls championship game. Lead changed on every shot in the 4th quarter. We are in a double bonus situation and had a few seconds left. B1 steals an in-bounds pass and drives to her basket. A1 fouls and the clock is stopped at 00.0 (no tenths) but the horn had not sounded. Fans of A go nuts and run onto the court as the clock shows A up by 1. Team A runs onto the court to celebrate. Team B is on the court clapping for A (I just love girls games.) I am standing there looking at both coaches, on the court, trying to get their kids off of the court.

What a mess! After everything was straighten-out and we determined that the horn was working, B1 missed both ends of the double.

[doghead]

Thanks for your replies. Wow, I feel dumb for asking this now. Of course it can happen! Sometimes I think too hard!

[Richard Ogg]

And the technical term no one used is "Continuous Motion."

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by doghead
NFHS Question:
I am the 'C' (therefore I have the last shot).

I hope you do not think in HS you have the last shot just because you are the C?

Peace

[doghead]

My instruction up to this point has been that the Center always has last shot responsibilities. Is this incorrect?
Thanks!
Becky

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by doghead
My instruction up to this point has been that the Center always has last shot responsibilities. Is this incorrect?
Thanks!
Becky

I have heard people say that too. The last shot should be C or T opposite table (good to pregame!)

Hodges

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by doghead
My instruction up to this point has been that the Center always has last shot responsibilities. Is this incorrect?
Thanks!
Becky

NFHS and NCAA Men -- Opposite table has last shot.

NCAA Women -- C has last shot.

Either way, we try to rotate so the C is opposite table.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

NFHS and NCAA Men -- Opposite table has last shot.

NCAA Women -- C has last shot.

Either way, we try to rotate so the C is opposite table.

Bob, why would you rotate to make the C opposite table official? Either way the last second responsibility is still the same official (NF and NCAA Men's). You can rotate 100 times back and forth and still the same official should have the call. And if you change in transition, would you not still have to keep rotatating to make the C, opposite the table. Sounds confusing to me.

Peace.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Bob, why would you rotate to make the C opposite table official? Either way the last second responsibility is still the same official (NF and NCAA Men's). You can rotate 100 times back and forth and still the same official should have the call. And if you change in transition, would you not still have to keep rotatating to make the C, opposite the table. Sounds confusing to me.

Peace.

Reason for C having last shot: If there's a change of posession in the last seconds, C will be in a better position to judge the shot then the new T (who could be 80+ feet away).

Reason for opposite trail having the last shot: Can make eye contact with the table to be sure the score is recorded or not correctly.

Reason for rotating to make C opposite table: Best of both worlds.

We do this when we can -- when A is in a delay, holding for last shot, for example. Once we do this, we "lock down." L can still go across, but if there is a change of posession, L will move back across the lane as s/he moves to the new T (IOW, T and C will not rotate -- T will become new L and C will remain C on the transition).

If there's a throw in opposite table with only a few seconds left, then we don't hurry through a rotation while the last shot is going up. We live with what we've got and give the shot to the C or T, depending on the level we're working (NCAA or NFHS).