Excessive Timeout
 

Boys' V. First round state tournament game.

Team A scores with 30 seconds remaining and is now trailing by 2 points. Team A has no time outs left. Team B inbounds into the corner where B1 is trapped. He throws a pass up the sideline (tableside.) A1 steps into the passing lane and makes a very athletic steal about five feet from the sideline. His momentum is carrying him out-of-bounds, however, so he jumps off of one foot, and while in midair, yells "TIME OUT" and visibly gives a time-out signal with his hands.

I am old T tableside in front of the play and grant the timeout. I was fully aware as I was granting the time out that team A had no time outs left, and that we had a technical foul.

Now, the technical foul ended up not mattering, because team B missed both free throws. Team B did end up winning the game by 5 points.

However, this has sparked a bit of a debate. The observer from the state office (who was sitting at the scorer's table literally 5 feet from this play) told me after the game that from a "game management" perspective, I should have ignored the request and simply given the ball to team B. I have also had several other officials tell me the same thing. For what it's worth, both of my partners on the floor said they would have granted the time out and charged the technical foul.

I have no problem with game management theory, and I believe that it is an important aspect of good officiating. If I can get out of a situation where a player wants an extra time out without having to grant it- I am going to do so. I don't believe this was a case where that could happen, though. The team B coach CLEARLY knew that the player was inbounds and had control of the ball when he asked for the time out. How do I explain it to him if I ignore it? The state observer's answer was "you could just tell him that his foot was on the line and he won't have a problem with it. They're getting the ball back anyway."

The ironic thing is that there were NO problems with the call. Coach A did not argue, he didn't stomp his feet, he didn't complain. The play happened right in front of him and he knew what happened. His only complaint was with the player- "What are you doing? I just told you we have no time outs left!" So from a game management standpoint, how is it going to get better if I ignore what happened? All that could happen now is that Coach B gets upset because I chose to ignore the timeout.

Sorry if I am venting a bit, but I am frustrated because I feel I did the right thing and I'm not happy that I didn't get supported by the observer. Just looking for others opinions.

I agree, especially in a late-game situation, that you may want to avoid giving an excessive TO technical......but, unless you can reaaaaly sell it to a coach, I think you need to grant the TO and give the technical. If he has 1 timeout left, are you going to not grant the timeout? No. Why do anything different because the team has 0 timeouts left. If you don't call the TO/technical, and I'm Team B's coach, we're shooting at least two more FTs for my technical too.

You went w/ your gut and followed the rules...good job. Don't second guess yourself.

I have absolutely no problem with what you did. For instance, what if they wanted to call timeout, knowing good and well that it would be a T, just to stop the clock and huddle for a minute. As I read it, that's a perfectly legitimate thing to do, and it's not your job to be second guessing why they may be calling timeout.

I think you did the right thing in this situation.

[Edited to remove complete absurdity.]

In NCAA a player who is in the air and their momentum is carrying them OB can not be granted a TO. Is NF different from NCAA in this respect?

Yes, it is.

Yes. NF did not change this rule this year. Player flying OOB/into the BC may still call TO.

In NFHS you lose possession if you call an excess time-out. In NCAA if you had team control you would retain possession.

Only NCAA-M go to POI. NCAA-W is 2+ball.

Yeah, I know. That's why I edited it. I guess maybe there aren't any great reasons to call TO in this case, but if you want it, you can have it as far as I'm concerned (as long as your willing to take the T for it)

Your state observer should re-think his position on this one. I agree strongly you handled this in the correct way, you had no other choice. To follow the state observer's advice you'd have to stretch the truth (quite a bit) about the A's player foot being on the line and lose some credibility with the B coach who knows that's not the case. If this happens to me in my State Tournament game later this month, I'm handling it just as you did.

Do you have a head state clinician or someone above this state observer you can discuss this call with? I find it very disturbing that he would tell you to ignore an obvious time out request and in fact recommend a concocted story to justify ignoring the request. I'm glad he's in your state and not mine :)

http://static.flickr.com/27/93628583_d301537c0f_m.jpg

If it's acceptable in the NCAA Final Four, then I think it's acceptable in the first round of high school playoffs.

Don't worry, I'm sure it will be like the NCAA in NFHS games before too long. Just like everything else.

Yes, I believe as long as the player has control of the ball he can. I believe is the same as the womens.

In this case, definitely a T. I'd try to ignore it only if it's blowout and his foot was mighty close to that line, close enough that I could sell it.

I agree with this. Get the call right. Don't ever compromise your integrity. You did a great job!
Game management does not equate to lying. That observer is part of the problem with sportsmanship in HS sports. He is a coward and can go straight to he11.

Nevada, you really shouldn't hold your feelings in like that. It's only going to hurt you in the long run, my friend.

one thing about officiating is that everyone has an opinion on how you can do something different or better -- i think you did what i would and most officials should. this is where i would just nod and smile.

Your belief is wrong for NCAA. The rule was changed this year.

R10-1-7: Request an excessive time-out, is a team technical foul.

The simple request is a T by rule and should not be ignored, IMHO

Here's the deal and here's why I think you should make the call. You're doing a big game like this and we all know that Team A has no timeouts left. You have a quick bang-bang type play, late in the game of a close game. That's a lot of pressure especially for someone that's new to the playoff's. I think it's best to just go with what happens, stick to officiating, and let the chips fall where they may. It's not your fault he called a TO that he didn't have.

I don't agree with your assigner here. I think he is talking out both sides of his mouth. You would be in even more trouble if you didn't grant the TO and it turns out, that you got the wrong team. If you are 100% sure, not 99.9% sure but 100% sure that this team doesn't have a TO left, and he's requesting it, while he's in the air falling OOB. Okay, you can just say, OOB team B's ball, you got no TO's player. Me, I'm not trying to work that hard plus I got other things to worry about that I don't want to dink up. Like, who's in the bonus, who's not. If I call a foul on this team, I got to get the shooter, if it's the other team, I don't have to get the shooter. You see how things can get confusing and the last thing you want to do is make a mistake. I say, go with what happens. In the postgame, just sit there and listen to it until you can get dressed and get out of there.

i was agreeing with you somewhat until paragraph #2.

You are correct. From an observer stand point that's based on how the game is flowing. Your situation I could see why he said what he said. If the player clearly yells it and he has no time outs and you know it, to avoid a T I would say In my judgment I felt you didn't have control. If the player argues whisper to him or something saying you want a tech for no time outs or would you rather lose the ball. Just my opinion though. Nevedaref tells me to keep trying things since Im young and find what works and what doesn't. RB stand point 100% correct.

Terrible thinking, Tommy. Maybe OK for middle school ball--sometimes- but certainly never for any higher levels. Game flow in these situations has got diddly squat to do with diddly squat also. Plain and simply, you're making up your <b>OWN</b> rules while ignoring very clearly written actual rules. That's never a good idea.

50% correct in that you never want to do this in a higher level game, especially if you're just starting out. Got nothing to do with ignoring actual rules because officials do this all the time and your assigner or evaluator told you to do just that. However, my concern is one day you might goof this up trying to apply game management when you should just call the game, call what you see.

What I think you should look at is the cost or consequences of erroring. What are the consequences if you just make the call? Zero, because the player called it. However, what if you thought Team A didn't have any TO's and they actually had one left, and the player calls it and you don't grant it, because you come up with, juggling the ball didn't have control, foot was on the line, something you made up because you thought they didn't have any. What kind of trouble are you in now when you give the ball to the other team and they score to win the game? What are your consequences now? Knowing that the guys that assign these games typically do it for life. You could be banned forever making a mistake like that. Not worth it to me when you consider the odds. When the stakes are high, just call what you see, and believe it or not, it's easier! Don't have to work as hard.

In the original post the T did not make a difference, but when you are blowing the whistle how will you know it would not make a difference?

Think about all the possibilities in a two point game

1) B misses both FT's; A forces a 5 second call, violation, or steals throwin. A scores and ties the game.

2) B makes both FT's, A forces a 5 second call or steals throwin. A scores and ties the game. and is only down by one. The clock stopped on a lot of this

3) B misses both FT throws and then fouls on the inbound throw-in, giving A shots at the other end while the clock is stopped (assumes bonus) and score 2 points and ties the game...

4) You now give the ball to B (up 2) and on the inbounds throw-in, there is a violation by B and turns ball over to A who shoots a 3point and scores to go up one. Coach B then complains to your state staff telling them you screwed them out of 2 shots and the ball and they tell you that you should have called it!

5) You just give ball to B (up 2) and they foul on throw-in and A scores on FTs to tie game. Coach B then complains to your state staff telling them you screwed them out of 2 shots and the ball and they (state staff) tell you that you should have called it or worse listen to some sort of ridiculous appeal, and then do something about it...

6) How do you explain to Coach A that you did not grant a time out, and he tells you that he has coached his kids to do this because clock stopping is more important than the 2 shots and ball?

It is not our call to be clairvoyant and see what will happen, sometimes we may be able to withold a whistle because plays are close... but we also recognize timeouts and call it.

I'd rather make this call and explain to the assigner, with full rules backing, why I made it then not make the call and have to explain to him why I ignored an obvious technical foul. Maybe when I become a legend, I can use "game management" to avoid the T, but I'm not that legendary yet. :)

I guess I'm thinking that if the team is meeting all the legal requirments to call a time out, except of course, they don't have any, what rational would you use not to grant it?

I would rather grant it, call the T when they didn't have one than not grant it and later realize they had one.:eek:

On this one, the point that I am trying to make to you is well stated by Adam.

Additionally, the NFHS wrote in a POE this season:

"Rules Enforcement and Proper Use of Signals. The committee has seen a movement away from the consistent application of rule enforcement and use of approved mechanics/signals.
A. Rules Enforcement. Officials need to be aware that personal interpretations of the rules have a negative impact on the game. The rules are written to provide a balance between offense and defense, minimize risks to participants, promote the sound tradition of the game and promote fair play. Individual philosophies and deviations from the rules as written negatively impact the basic fundamentals and tenants of the rules. Officials must be consistent in the application of all rules,..."

Just call it correctly instead of trying to hedge and avoid this or that. Keep it simple and do your job.

Geeze Louise.

I agree the OP did the right thing by granting the excessive TO.

I don't agree with Nevada's blind character assassination of the observer.