Two HS questions

[hough7865]

Hey all,

I coach a middle school team, and my brother is in high school, and I was watching one of his games this year and two situations happened and I wanted to know if what the officials did was correct. High School rules please...

1) I think this is what people call a BLARGE [sp?]. Three officials on the game, and there is a collision in the paint. One official called it a charge, the other a block. They gave both players a foul, called a double foul, and went with the arrow....is this correct?

2) Different game, a player on the other team got blood on his jersey. The officials let him take the jersey of a player, in the book, sitting on the bench. Is this allowed? What happens to the other player? What if they get the bloody jersey clean...can the original player use it again, and can the other player put his original jersey back on?

Thanks!

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by hough7865

Hey all,

I coach a middle school team, and my brother is in high school, and I was watching one of his games this year and two situations happened and I wanted to know if what the officials did was correct. High School rules please...

1) I think this is what people call a BLARGE [sp?]. Three officials on the game, and there is a collision in the paint. One official called it a charge, the other a block. They gave both players a foul, called a double foul, and went with the arrow....is this correct?

2) Different game, a player on the other team got blood on his jersey. The officials let him take the jersey of a player, in the book, sitting on the bench. Is this allowed? What happens to the other player? What if they get the bloody jersey clean...can the original player use it again, and can the other player put his original jersey back on?

Thanks!

1) Yes, provided there was no team control.

2) Yes, it's allowed. Interesting question, I suppose it would be possible if it was early enough in the game and they washed the jersey really quick. According to the comment in 3.3.6, I think it would be allowed for the player giving up his jersey to wear the jersey that was bloody.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hough7865

Hey all,

I coach a middle school team, and my brother is in high school, and I was watching one of his games this year and two situations happened and I wanted to know if what the officials did was correct. High School rules please...

1) I think this is what people call a BLARGE [sp?]. Three officials on the game, and there is a collision in the paint. One official called it a charge, the other a block. They gave both players a foul, called a double foul, and went with the arrow....is this correct?

You go to the arrow only if their is no possession by a player/team. You go to the point of interruption if there was possession of the ball by a player/team.

Originally Posted by hough7865

2) Different game, a player on the other team got blood on his jersey. The officials let him take the jersey of a player, in the book, sitting on the bench. Is this allowed? What happens to the other player? What if they get the bloody jersey clean...can the original player use it again, and can the other player put his original jersey back on?

Thanks!

Yes this is allowed. If you cannot take care of the blood, a player is allowed to change jerseys with someone that has not played. I do not know about going back to the old jersey, I am not sure the rules cover this specifically, but the idea is to not keep a player completely out just because blood is on the jersey. It might not be their blood that is on their jersey.

Peace

[Splute]

How can you have a double foul on a single incident? It seems it would be one call or the other. Wouldnt the closest Ump or the Ref make the final call?

If a player is going for a try which initiates the Charge / block call, then there must be team control.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Splute

How can you have a double foul on a single incident? It seems it would be one call or the other. Wouldnt the closest Ump or the Ref make the final call?

Some say, philosophically, that it's not possible. However, the NFHS rules state that when two officials both give opposite signals, they're supposed to go with a double foul.

Originally Posted by Splute

If a player is going for a try which initiates the Charge / block call, then there must be team control.

If the shot is in the air before contact, there is no team control.

[Splute]

[quote=Snaqwells]Some say, philosophically, that it's not possible. However, the NFHS rules state that when two officials both give opposite signals, they're supposed to go with a double foul.

Okay, I have missed that in my reading. Back to the books.

[FrankHtown]

#2...can of worms...players are not allowed to remove their shirts, even for blood, in the bench area. (I think there is a case book reference to this). They need to go to a locker room, or out of sight of the court to change, I believe.

And as tjones and JRut said, I believe the intent is to let them play. The number is changed in the scorebook without penalty.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Splute

Okay, I have missed that in my reading. Back to the books.

See 4.19.8 Situation C and you've got it.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Splute

How can you have a double foul on a single incident? It seems it would be one call or the other. Wouldnt the closest Ump or the Ref make the final call?

IMO, this is always caused by poor communication. In a game that I'm involved - during pregame - I make sure to say to yeild to the primary on a double whistle. If I'm involved in a double whistle the first thing I do is look at my partner - if it's his I drop my hand and nod - if it's mine, I take my left hand and touch my chest to signal I have it. The problem is that some guys crack the whistle on a crash like this and want to realy SELL the call and don't pay any attention to their partner. A blarge is never fun - but at least it's specifically dealt with in the rule book now.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

A blarge is never fun - but at least it's specifically dealt with in the rule book now.

Did you think that it wasn't before? It's not new. I have kept my books since 2001-02 and this same case play is in there. I'm sure that someone else can confirm that it goes back even earlier.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Did you think that it wasn't before? It's not new. I have kept my books since 2001-02 and this same case play is in there. I'm sure that someone else can confirm that it goes back even earlier.

You are right - I don't know what I'm thinking. They did change it though. I think when they added the team control foul thing. It used to be never count the bucket - now you do in certain situations. And the POI was something else that wasn't in the book.

I claim insanity . . . of course in my defense, now as opposed to 15 years ago - I'm still right! (well, maybe!)

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Did you think that it wasn't before? It's not new. I have kept my books since 2001-02 and this same case play is in there. I'm sure that someone else can confirm that it goes back even earlier.

It's in my 1914 book - the one I bought personally from Dr. Naismith.

[Adam]

Regarding #1. Was there a shot involved. If it was released before contact, then they would go with the arrow, unless the basket went in. If it wasn't released before the fouls, they would give the ball back to the offense.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by hough7865

Hey all,

I coach a middle school team, and my brother is in high school, and I was watching one of his games this year and two situations happened and I wanted to know if what the officials did was correct. High School rules please...

1) I think this is what people call a BLARGE [sp?]. Three officials on the game, and there is a collision in the paint. One official called it a charge, the other a block. They gave both players a foul, called a double foul, and went with the arrow....is this correct?

2) Different game, a player on the other team got blood on his jersey. The officials let him take the jersey of a player, in the book, sitting on the bench. Is this allowed? What happens to the other player? What if they get the bloody jersey clean...can the original player use it again, and can the other player put his original jersey back on?

Thanks!

Um, that is a double foul which means you go to the point of interuption, not the arrow. The charge is a player control foul.

[Adam]

Point of interruption is the arrow if the contact happens after the unsuccessful shot is released.
It's my understanding that being a double foul makes this so it's no longer a PC foul. IOW, the basket would count if the shot was released prior to contact.