So who do you think will work the Final Four for the men's and women's tourney.
 

Men's final four officials:

Jim Burr
Tim Higgins
Verne Harris
Dave Libby
Dick Cartmell
Reggie Greenwood
Karl Hess
Steve Whelmer

Womens Final Four Officials:

Lisa Mattingly
Jean Corteau
Dee Kanter
Tina Napier
Sally Bell
Mellisa Barlow
Mike Price
Gator Parish
Bryan Enterline

They will be ten officials who worked in the regional semis and finals.

PS
Tommy,
You need to pick ten officials. Three for each game plus one alternate.

o yah! I completely forgot about the alternate.
Thanks!

How come I don't see my name on this list? :mad:

I think Old School is missing from both lists.

Not to mention Jon Diebler......

Posthumously, of course. How soon they forget!

With a new Women's National Cooridantor the officials may change a bit.

What about:

Bob Trammel
Eric Brewton

Bryan Kersey will definately be there.

I agree with Kersey. I also think Gary Maxwell will be there. Reggie Greenwood should be omitted from the list. JMO

I see Mike Whitehead on a ton of good games, when does he get his shot? I would take him over Tim Higgins.

What about (on the Men's Side)

Ed Corbett
John Cahil
Scott Thornby?

Do you mean Mark Whitehead???

Him too, Mike, Mark, Matt the Whitehead guy!

I think that there should be a poll.

He may be on there, we only know him by his pseudonym. Clark Kent doesn't put on the suit for just anyone, you know.

We need that statue.

I think we should take a poll on whether there should be a poll about this...

No, we need a committee for that.

And a pre-meeting.....

And without me even saying it, I'm sure most people know I think Steve Welmer shouldn't be on the list. JM(strong)O

This is my list for the Men's side and I will say upfront that I'm biased towards officials who I think are good/great play callers and/or don't take no BS.

Verne Harris
Dave Libby
Teddy V
Jamie Luckie
Les Jones
Pat Adams
Gary Maxwell
Karl Hess
Bernard Clinton

Maybe not the most well known group, but if you look purely at good officiating I think you could pull a group from here that will do a great job. Also, notice most of my guys don't jump around like a court jester trying to get angles.

I'm raising funds to build a memorial made out of Billy Packer's hair. It's going to be a very small memorial. :p

We can put that on the Diebler Memorial--<i><b>"Hair Today, Gone Tomorrow."</b></i>

The only thing Welmer is good for is a drinking came played on college campuses across the nation. Everytime he adjusts the waist of his pants you drink. If you've seen him....you drink early and often.

It's not just college kids who do that. :D

Welmer is God!!!

Since I don't see a smiley face I will offer this :rolleyes:

Is it true??? Surely I'd have noticed before!
 

I just read this thread carefully, and I have a question.

There's a wommin's tourney? Really? Jurassic, is it true?

Weeeeeellllll.......

I've heard rumors that it's true. I've never actually seen any of 'em playing myself, so it just might be one of them myth thingies. You know, like the <i>Yeti</i>, Sasquatch, the Loch Ness Monster and Tennessee.

I really like your list but I think that (I knwo how you feel) Steve Welmer will be in there somewhere. Regardless, the list you put together are definitely top officials. And certainly all capable of working a final 4.

What is the farthest Welmer has gone into the tourny? I'm not trying to be funny or anything, but as far as I know he hasn't advanced to the final four before.
Anyone know?

. . . Jurassic's sense of humor, Dan_ref's hair. . .

You'd best be leaving Dan alone. The man is <i><b>suave</b></i>. <i><b>Suave</b></i>, I tell ya! the very epitome of <i><b>suave</b></i>-ness; the apex of <i><b>suave</b></i>-ity.
http://www.uselessgraphics.com/itch.gif

Welmer was pulling his pants up every time down the court in Ann Arbor last night. Didn't look very god-like.
It was a brutal game from the view in my living room. :)

I think its time to see Steve Welmer at the Final Four. You see him on all the big games in the Big 12 and Big 10 but he has never got the call for the final four and I would say its time. My list:

Steve Welmer
Verne Harris
Scott Thornley
Mark Whitehead
Mike Thibedoux
Jim Burr - of course
Mike Kitts
Tim Higgins
Mike Sanzere- good official not sure final 4 material yet?- alternate
Ted Hillary

Question: where is Ed Hightower? I haven't saw him working anywhere since early January. Most seasons he is every where in the Big Ten, Big 12 and Big East. Just wondering?

He blew out his knee in a game about a month ago. He is done for the year. I do not know much more than that.

Peace

Why is it time to see Welmer at the Final Four?

Tom - I'm curious as to why you have your feelings about Welmer?

I may have mentioned this before, but since we are in a Big 10 town, our local paper has done a "end-of-season" survey and article of various Big 10 players at the end of both football and basketball seasons. They ask all the standard questions, like "Who's the best player?" "Who's the best coach?" and "What team has the best fans?". They even ask some off-the-wall questions, like, "Which player would you least like to meet in a dark alley?" But one question they've asked is "Who's your favorite referee?" And it seems like for the last 3 or 4 years, Steve Welmer has been at the top of that list, usually by a wide margin over the next person listed. The comments associated usually include things like, "He's fair", or, "He'll talk to you and let you know what you did."

Granted, this is a survey of players, not supervisors. But it does say there's something about him that puts him in a positive light with the players on the court. And supervisors must like him, because you see him all the time. So, he must be doing something right?

final four talk???
 

I think it is a little premature to talk about who will make the final four isn't it. As I understand it, what you did during the season gets you to the tournament, but your performance during the tournament is what advances you? If that isn't correct I would certainly like to know the correct procedure.

You are exactly right. You cannot go to a Final Four without being first recommended by a conference. Then once picked is is like an elimination tournament. The officials that do a good job at the first round are advance to the second round and so on.

Peace

I just had a long-winded response, but I don't want to totally throw someone under the bus. I will just say that I'm the type person that likes to do things right and I want what is right for the game. Making/keeping one side happy means things are fair for the other side. Welmer isn't even my least favorite D1 official.

Let me preface by saying Welmer isn't my favorite official (and I'm not sure I really have a favorite, like a favorite team), I'm just trying to get a better handle on what you're trying to say. When you say, "do things right", are you talking from a mechanics standpoint, or something else? I don't think he has "textbook" mechanics, but that can be said of quite a few successful D-1 officials. But, like I said, he's seen quite a bit, and the players like him as well, so what is he doing that makes him successful? Maybe it's his personality? So, because he is successful, shouldn't that make him a candidate for a Final 4 assignment?

As all of us know the advancement isn't solely based upon performance in the tournament. A large factor is years of experience and prior tournament performance. There is no way that everyone starts on equal footing in the first round of the NCAA.

When I was talking about mechanics, I was referring to three man mechanics.
What I'm trying to say is this, getting along with everyone and ONLY calling the obvious does not make for someone I would look at as one of my favorites.

I do not think all of us know anything for sure unless we are sitting directly in the room when these decisions are made. Also I did not say that was the only reason people advanced, but it is an elimination tournament. Maybe if all things are equal I would agree past performance or resume would play a role. Either way it goes, this has been the NCAA's public stance on the issue.

Peace

I would like to put a dog in this fight and ask a question? If skill plays a part in who advances, why is the tournament the source of the NCAA video every year? A video that mostly tells us what NOT to do.

Way to stir the pot, Tom. :)

Do you expect the tournament officials to mistake free? ;)

Are you saying that you have perfect games? I know I do not have perfect games. I can imagine that any game shown on tape of any game there can be a call or two we might need to review. No one is perfect.

Peace

I'll take a guess...

1. Because the games are really visible and the errors may be of do-or-die importance.
2. The officials that are there have proven themselves to get there and a "review" of the best official's mistakes is not likely to harm them. It would look a lot worse to pick on the guy who didn't make it. It could destroy their career when the very same mistake which is also made by a final four official may be mostly ignored.

I'll throw in a couple more guesses:
3. Because it's the NCAA tourney the NCAA owns rights to the video which might otherwise be encumbered by conference's media contracts.
4. Because it's the only time all year that Mr. Nichols really is in direct charge of the refs and he feels much freer to pick out examples of things he wants done differently. It would be somewhat unfair to pick examples from the regular season where a different assigner may have wanted things done differently.

For the selection of the tournament, the no. 1 and 2 officials from each confernce go. The vets like Hightower, Burr, Higgins are in it no matter what since they are so successful. I think Welmer is so well like because of his court presence. How ofter do you see an official that tall how creats so much belivability on every call. He doesn't over sell but can when he has to. Plus fixing is pants is like his trade mark. I caught my self doing it twice on of my high school games I got on DVD. I'm should also include that I chew gum on the court to keep the mouth from drying out. I feel it's time from Welmer to see the final four.

I'm not saying I have perfect games at all. I was just making a point that I feel is valid. I don't think we should sit here and think these tournament officials ref 80 games a year for 20 years and never develop some control over what they call and what they pass on. Most of us can do that right now at the high school and lower college level. It is an example of "do things this way" and then officials moving on in the tournament who don't do it. Why don't the NCAA POE's always include something new year after year? If we are given a new rule, guess what, we call the new rule. Do you guys really think that couldn't be the case with philosophy?

I will say up front that the traveling calls on the NCAA video could be tough because players are so quick. However, following what Hank Nichols says every year, there should be more off-ball calls made in almost every game. I'm not saying go crazy, but do we really think there is a game where the post (off ball) is clean?

The first time an official calls a perfect game, that official should probably just hang it up and retire. But let's not underestimate how good these officials are and how much control they have over what they do every game.