college goaltending question
 

A1 shoots a layup, B2 contacts the ball after it has hit the glass but before it is above the rim, is this a goaltend in college ball?

Count the basket!!! If it is on it's downward flight and have possibility of entering the basket. If it's on it's upward flight play on!!! Goaltending applies (1) during a try for a field goal or free throw, or (2) when a tapped ball is in flight toward the tapper’s basket. The ball may not be touched while it is on its downward flight during a try for field goal while any part of the ball is above ring level and has the possibility of entering the basket.

Gotta be outside the cylinder, on the way down, be entirely above the rim and have a chance to go in. Nothing about the glass in the rule.

Sounds like your case is legal.

edit: we pushed 'enter' at the same time, you must live closer to the forum server :)

I feel safe saying you can't have goaltending on a ball that is not above the rim.

Ball never made it above the rim, cannot be goaltending in this case. That applies in high school also.

However, in the NBA I think there is a rule about hitting the ball after it hits the backboard.

I knew that in the fed rules, the glass didn't play a part in the ruling, just wasn't sure about the NCAA thanks guys...

I had this happen in a game the other night. Good thing I was looking. I was in the trail table side. The funny thing is the slot (C) didnt catch it and it was on his side of the of the basket. Anyway, blew it dead, scored the basket and patted myself on the back!

You better not have patted yourself on the back if your scenario was the same as the OP. :(

This is not goaltending: "A1 shoots a layup, B2 contacts the ball after it has hit the glass but before it is above the rim, is this a goaltend in college ball?"

Good point!! I stated the requirements in my original post. truerookie :"If it is on it's downward flight and have possibility of entering the basket. If it's on it's upward flight play on!!!

Trust me, it hit the corner of the square and was on it way down into the basket.....tweet!!!!!

That's not the same scenario as was stated in the OP. It's an important distinction.

Thanks for pointing that obvious fact out to me.

Don't want anyone thinking you called a GT for the same scenario as the OP's.

I'm a very literal person. :)

Never, give me a call.

In high school ... ball hits glass on a try. Can it be touched and not be goaltending?

Yes. It's legal to touch the ball if it's outside the cylinder and still on the way up. Whether the ball touches the backboard or not is irrelevant.

On page 66 of last year's Simplified & Illustrated there is a picture of a try hitting the backboard above the level of the ring and continuing on its upward flight. The shot is now blocked by a defender while it is still outside of the cylinder. (I wish I could post the picture, but I don't know how. Perhaps someone else can.)

The NFHS caption reads:

9-11; 9-12 This block is legal as the ball is still in its upward flight and is not in the imaginary cylinder above the ring when touched by the defender. If the ball had been in its downward flight outside the cylinder and had a chance of entering the basket, it would have been defensive goaltending, if the touching had occurred with the ball in or touching the cylinder, it would have been basket interference.

In high school ... ball hits glass on a try. Can it be touched and not be goaltending?

Anybody see the movie "Groundhog Day"?

All I can say is, "Don't drive angry".

http://www.theblab.com/archive/blab_.../groundhog.jpg

SECTION 22 GOALTENDING
Goaltending occurs when a player touches the ball during a field-goal try or tap while it is in its downward flight entirely above the basket ring level and has the possibility of entering the basket in flight, or an opponent of the free thrower touches the ball outside the cylinder during a free-throw attempt.

If it hits the backboard and is on its way down, the answer is no.

Johnny, post #17 was intended to answer your question. The answer is yes, it can be touched and NOT be goaltending as long as the ball is still on its way up. This is also true in the NCAA. However, the NBA rule is different.

This is so incomplete it qualifies as just plain wrong.

Should I have said, "as long as the ball is not on its way down," Dan? :confused:

...and it has a chance to go in and it's not in the cylinder and it's above the rim.

In the context of this thread your answer says the ball can be blocked off the glass only if it's on the way up.

Ok, after putting on my hyper-technical hat, I see what you are saying.
I took Johnny's question to be that he desired to know if it was legal to block a shot that had already hit the backboard, was still above the level of the ring, was not in the cylinder, and had a chance to go in.
I simply replied that as long as the ball was still on the way up, then this is a legal block per the Simplified & Illustrated reference that I already cited.

In otherwords, I took all of the other criteria as given. In the context of his question, I was not dealing with a ball that strikes the backboard, but is below the level or the ring, or has no chance to enter the basket, or is in the cylinder.

Of course, to answer the general case, you are correct to point out that all of those other factors need to be considered.

That's what I get for thinking that Johnny asked a relatively straightforward question. Perhaps I read to much into it, but I believe that he was seeking an answer for a very specific case.

We'll just have to wait and let him clarify. Hopefully, we've both helped him to understand this better. :)

Yeah, fwiw it pisses me off too, Nevada, when Dan goes all hyper-technical on us like that.

So, it all boils down to: was the ball in it's downward flight - no matter if it hit the backboard or not. If the try is in it's downward flight and has a chance to go in - it is golatending. The hitting the backboard really has nothing to do with it.

That is correct.

3 Things
 

1. Ball completely above the rim.

2. Ball on downward flight.

3. Ball has a chance to go in.

If any of these things do not apply, you cannot have goaltending. You notice hitting the backboard is not apart of this equation. ;)

Peace

Thanks ... I had always been told and under the understanding that once the ball hit glass it can't be touched. I can't recall ever calling this wrong - so, I now will never make this mistake! :)

No, they don't. If the try is on its upward flight, then it's not goaltending, period. You don't need to consider anything else. Because in order for it to be goaltending, it MUST be on it's downward flight. Therefore, if it's going up, then it's not goaltending. It might be 100 other things, but it's not GT. Nevadaref's answer was absolutely correct as stated. As long as the try is going up, it's not goaltending to touch it.

No. The question was can the ball be blocked off the glass legally. It was such a good question Johnny Ringo asked it twice. Nevada's answer directly addressed Johnny Ringo and he said "The answer is yes, it can be touched and NOT be goaltending as long as the ball is still on its way up."

In a vacuum Nevada's answer is correct. In regard to how the backboard comes into play in this rule he is wrong. The backboard has nothing to do with GT, whether the ball is going up, down or levitating in mid air.

In a vacuum or out of it. If the ball is going up, no goaltending, regardless of anything else (with the one exception of goaltending a free throw). The backboard is irrelevent, as you point out, but that doesn't make Nevada's statement "so incomplete as to be just plain wrong". It's entirely correct. It just doesn't address the further misunderstanding about the backboard.

I understand your point, but I don't want some newbie to come along and see the following exchange:

OP: Is it goaltending to block the shot off the backboard if it's still on the way up.
Nevada: It's never goaltending to hit the try on the way up.
Dan: That's incomplete and incorrect.

Yikes! That gives a very bad impression of the actual rule. I know what you were getting at and you're right that Nevadaref's answer doesn't address the point that the backboard has nothing to do with goaltending or basket interference. But it is equally true that it's never goaltending to touch the try on its upward flight (unless it's a free throw).

I'm going to attempt to attach the picture that you are talking about.

I couldn't get the attachment to upload even though it was below the file size requirement?!

Right.

In other words it's so incomplete as to be just wrong.

Glad we agree.

You can keep typing it. It doesn't make it any more true. :D

You can keep tilting at that windmill, but Nevada and I both think you're wrong, scappie-doo.

In fact, here's what he said. Feel free to continue the argument with him, 'cause I'm done.

Sometimes the message can get lost in the semantics.

Whether I was right in the first place or not doesn't really matter to me. I believe that we have helped Johnny R to have a much better understanding of this aspect of officiating and that is what we strive to do here and what is important to me.

He only said that to be polite because he's afraid of getting on your bad side. But I know you're a big pussycat. :)

Agree.<i></i>

Can I at least have a cookie to go with the juice?