No big dogs
 

Tonight I reffed a JV game with two referees who are NOT super focussed on doing state games or advancing. Just content to do the best they personally can do.

What a difference. More fun.

Rita

I have reffed with several people who are focused on advancing and working state tournament AND they have a blast too. Those two things do not need to be mutually exclusive of each other.

Tsk. Tsk.

I said it was more fun. I didn't say the others weren't fun.

Rita

I thought for a second you were talking about "seeing eye dogs."

I seriously hope (more for you sake) that you are not judging one day as the norm. It might be that these particular individuals were more fun to work with compared to what you have been dealing with previously.

Also the people that tend to be the most fun to work with are the people that want to advance, want to work post season. Why? These officials are usually trained more by attending more camps and they do a lot of little things to make sure the game moves smoothly. As compared to the working with the weekend warrior that is more concerned with their check than doing a good job.

Peace

I also find that the other officials that I work with that are motivated toward climbing the ladder to higher levels, etc. are more confident and thus will be more likely to joke around at appropriate times. Pre-gamming with them is much more efficient because we aren't covering obscure little things and therefore have time to debate weird things that we have encountered. Also many of the more experienced/motivated officials are a bit older than I am, and know that I've got a 4 year old, my wife and I are expecting our 2nd, and I am finishing up my degree, therefore they give me the kid in need of some charity treatment by buying dinner when we go out after games and the such. Actually have had a couple of guys give me equipment that they've only used once or twice and just didn't like the feel. They had it dry-cleaned and everything first.

I guess the thinking behind this thread got shot down pretty quick. :D

Seen my share of ref's that get caught up in the competitive spirit, they are driven to get the biggest games, gym's, players, game checks, etc.

They chase the "stage".

Others enjoy the basics. A good sweat on a competitve court of play and $35.00 pocket money.

Nothing wrong with either - but when these two forces share a locker room ..... :mad:

Yeah, they got defensive fairly quickly.

But none of you asked why, really.

I appreciate the pregames and the postgames of the big dogs. I learn a lot from them. But one game once in a while where I can just go out and officiate and enjoy the game and be my own critiquer and work on what I need to work on and then go home is quite refreshing and a needed break.

I know they just want me to improve and I do too. But it's been a tough season for me physically and mentally, especially since I lost a lot of games to weather and illness. So it's nice to just "play" for one evening.

It's a heads up for some of you who wonder about how to retain the new officials. Why do they leave after a couple of years? What I'm feeling may be a part of it.

Rita

Sorry if you thought I got defensive. I didn't. I just didn't think your point was valid.

I can't remember a recent game that I didn't enjoy, nor can I think of one when I wasn't working on something. And I work with big dogs as well as little dogs regularly.

I've seen many reasons why officials leave the game after a couple years.
"Working with the big dogs" has never been on the list. :)

it was a 3-person crew at the JV level?

I had two games I didn't enjoy this year. Games I probably shouldn't have worked but I didn't realize how sick I was before I went. (And didn't know till I went to the doctor a few days later. Sinus infections can sneak up on you.) My partner snapped at me out on the court. In the locker room he told me I had to suck it up. I was but not enough for him. It was terrible. If I had the ego some people bring to officiating I wouldn't have come back it was that bad.

But I do have enough ego that I have been having to work at bringing the fun back since. Hence the relief last night was.

Rita

That's required here. Plus it allows the "middle" officials that I'm supposed to be to gain three person experience before advancing to varsity.

Rita

Sometimes the crap people come up with amazes me. If you wanted anyone to know why, then why did you not put that in your post?

So you want to go in to a game not knowing the expectations of your partner whether it is mechanics, rules or how to handle tough situation which tend to come up during any game? That is telling in a lot of ways.

Actually Rita, I do not want to work with officials that have your attitude. Maybe officiating is not for you. I know younger officials that do all those things you seem to despise. Also I know younger officials who do this more so than veterans who have been around for decades and are less accomplished. Whatever floats your boat.

Peace

[QUOTE=JRutledge



Actually Rita, I do not want to work with officials that have your attitude. Maybe officiating is not for you. I know younger officials that do all those things you seem to despise. Also I know younger officials who do this more so than veterans who have been around for decades and are less accomplished. Whatever floats your boat.

Peace[/QUOTE]

You don't want to work with someone who wants to do her best at every game? As I said, it's been a rough year but I can see improvement. I found the other day that when I was reading the officiating manual that it was finally making sense on the level that means I've gotten to the point that I'm starting to fine tune the mechanics instead of having it all be Greek.

What did I say that I despised?

Very interesting. Chip on your shoulder too?

Rita

Doing your best is not having a pre-game? Then you talk about quitting because someone going over a post game?

Remember, you started this post. None of us have a dog in the fight as to why you want to officiate or not.

Rita, you are upset because "big dogs" (your words) want to go over stuff before the game. You did not say anything about "big dogs" being rude or unprofessional. You said they it was more fun to work with people that did not go over those things. I did not make that claim or create a post about this topic, YOU DID!!! Not sure how I would have a chip on my shoulder by pointing this out. Also if you want to be seen a professional and someone that wants to improve, you go over things before and after games. Even when I work with younger officials, I ask them "Did you see anything (that I personally did) that you want to talk about?" I want to talk about things because I might have done something that was not correct or they might think I did something right. Either way in most games we officiate, no one is around evaluating us. So I like to hear things from my partners that we could have done better. That is "trying to get better" in my opinion. Trying to get better does not mean getting upset with your partners and contemplating why younger officials quit just because someone had a pre-game and post-game.

Peace

You need to read more carefully. I did say I appreciate the input of the "big dogs". I never said I was upset that we do pregames and post games. And if more of them were like your last paragraph, it would be delightful.

I didn't say I would quit over a postgame like what you described. I did say the postgame that made me think about it was terrible. He didn't let up and told me the same thing over and over and told me to suck it up. And he snapped at me on the court. (Totally out of the blue. I had no idea something was wrong.) You don't think that was unprofessional? I did. And told him so later. And got an apology.

But maybe that's one of the things missing this year: Postgames like you describe. Maybe I need to listen and see. I know that's how it used to be and I felt more a part of it. Maybe that's one of the things missing this season.

But it's all more than just being professional. It also needs to be fun. Maybe I'm just using you all as a sounding board to find it. Even though I think you are misreading me, your words are helping find something.

I know what I'm feeling and I know what I'm saying. But I find it interesting what all you all are hearing. It's giving me some good insight.

Rita

Rita, these are your words from posts in this thread. Now you tell me what about this might you think me and others might have a problem with?

Rita, I did not describe anything about a pre-game in detail. I just said you should have them and if you want to get better, there is nothing wrong with them.

Also the incident you described had little or nothing to do with having a pre-game or post game. That was more likely a guy being a jerk and unprofessional. But this was not the justification of your post. If it was, you should have said something else. I read exactly what you said and it was not very clear if this was part of your angst.

Rita, I am just one official. I have a style that might not fit others that officiate. That does not mean that others are unprofessional because they want to discuss things before a game and after a game.

Having fun with anything is what you make it. If others are taking away your fun, then you need to reevaluate (in my opinion) why you are out there. All those things would not take away my enjoyment. Those incidents might be challenging, but I cannot see those taking away my fun.

I am not sure that is true. You called someone defensive because they did not agree with your take. So if these are good insights for you, you have to be willing to take advice that you might not want to hear. Not everyone is going to pat you on the back and tell you how wonderful you are. At least not in the real world.

Peace

Rita, I for one understand the sentiment in your original post, and I share your perspective. I'm sorry that your two sentences had to be so overanalyzed and picked apart, but sometimes that's all people on this forum have time to do. Rock on!

If you come to this site and you post a thought, you have to be able to accept that people will have a take on your threads. If you do not want that to happen then do not go anywhere on the internet and post your thoughts. Also no one was overanalyzing her thoughts. I know I just find it curious that someone that has not achieved much yet is complaining about something that makes most officials successful. And then she had the nerve to complain as if that is the reason younger officials quit. I have NEVER, NEVER, NEVER been that sensitive about a veteran telling me something I did not want to hear. It was almost like she was blaming everyone that is a veteran for her problems. Sorry, that is not our problem if you cannot tell a veteran to shut the hell up and stop being a jerk.

Peace

Does anyone besides me realize that the tag "big dog" is ridiculous? What does someone have to be or do to be a "big dog."

Rita, this just isn't something where you are going to have a lot of what you want. The only relation to a dog I can think of is when people say that a trained dog is happier. An experienced official is happier IMO. Knowing what you are doing makes it easier to do it. Sometimes it pains me to say anything to younger officials because they aren't as receptive as they should be IMO. It is a waste of breath and meanwhile the game suffers because a smaller and smaller percentage of officials are actually working hard to get better. That is just my opinion.

I took it that she had a relaxed game that, towards the end of a rather difficult season, helped her remember why she does this. I think, even for those of us who are always trying to get better (and I'd say Rita is in this group based on her previous posts), it's nice every now and then to have a game where you get to just get in, enjoy yourself while getting it done, and get out.

I had a ms game like that a few weeks ago. My partner gets a decent varsity/JV schedule, and we called a good game. It was just relaxing.

I look at it like my regular job in this respect. It's nice to have a day every now and again where everything goes smooth, the boss isn't hovering over your desk, and the coworkers are all on the same page without a whole lot of "how do we fix this" type of discussion.

Snaq, I don't want this to sound too harsh, but I want to put is as plain as possible.

You want to have more relaxing games? Get better. That is the cure to heal many things as officials. I'm in the same boat for the level I want to achieve so I'm not excluding myself.

I look at this as a business not a job. If it is your business then you might take a different take on what happens to you.

Peace

Tom, you don't have to worry about me. I'm a military cook, a basketball official, and I vote for the wrong political party according to my family. I've got thick skin. :)
You're right. The most relaxing game I had was an easy game to do, so my skill level was more than adequate for the occasion. That's what made it relaxing.
Here's the thing. I don't want more of these games, per se. It was not the sort of game that is going to make me better as an official. It was nice to have, but I don't really want a lot of them.

This is a good point, Jeff. It's a different mindset between the two.

Thank you. You've got it. It's only because I am getting better that it was fun.

My father had an old Danish saying: If you throw a rock into a group of dogs, the one that gets hit yelps.

Rita

I love how people expect others to read their minds but get mad when others do not understand their point. I guess we were supposed to know that this situation was the same as an official going off on you (which you did not talk about at all in your first 2 or 3 posts) on the court in a previous incident. ;)

Peace

Wow, talk about uptight. I guess we're to that point in the season. :rolleyes:

I had one of those games (two actually, it was a double-header) recently too, Rita. I've actually had a really good season, but it was definitely fun to have a game where things were just fun and easy. It was a girls varsity at a little private school. The other team had been on the bus for three hours to get there. Everybody was just happy to be playing. The ball wasn't very good, but the kids played hard and had fun and the coaches were relaxed and just did their thing. I was with a partner who's about the same level as I am. We drove down together and enjoyed chatting the whole way. Before the first game we did rock-paper-scissors to determine who would toss. Between games we chatted with some of the teachers from the school (who knew that in the middle of Utah there was a prep school with kids from 32 countries?). Afterward we showered in lovely warm water (never a given even at bigger schools) and headed home. What a great night!

Loser tosses? ;)