Those insignificant rules and mechanics and other such minutia

Raymond

It had been a quiet HS/JuCo season so far with no unusual situations, then the last 2 nights I get this:

Game 1:

In warmups 1 player has on red headband matching his team's uniform color, but all other teammates with headbands are wearing white

I'm U2 responsible for V team and I count 14 players (it was hard, trust me). Later 'R' comes back from table says we almost had a problem b/c V only had 13 names in the book. Whoever copied the names in the book completely skipped a player

Game 2:

I'm the 'R' and U1 has to call my first 2 tosses back b/c I out-tossed the 6'7" & 6'5" jumpers and they completely miss the ball both times.

As I'm waiting to start the 2nd quarter, crew member from the game prior to mine points out that one of the players is wearing a frayed cut-off undershirt. I let my partner know and he goes to inform the coach. But I was happy to see the player immediately run back to the locker room.

We may or may not have screwed up a possession arrow (I still don't think we did). But I have a coach who is telling me that it's a correctable error and that we should wipe out the subsequent basket and foul :rolleyes:

Partner has an unruly fan directly behind bench. My partner DOES NOT GIVE HIM THE STARE. Partner notifies game admin who have the Sherriff's deputy escort out the offender.

I receive my first ever police escort after a game 😎

Jurassic Referee

BadNewsRef wrote
My partner DOES NOT GIVE HIM THE STARE. Partner notifies game admin who have the Sherriff's deputy escort out the offender.

No STARE?:eek:

No "T"?:eek:

Old School is just gonna be soooooooo disappointed in you.😃

Nevadaref

My comments are in red.

BadNewsRef wrote
It had been a quiet HS/JuCo season so far with no unusual situations, then the last 2 nights I get this:

Game 1:

In warmups 1 player has on red headband matching his team's uniform color, but all other teammates with headbands are wearing white (Simply make the team make a choice. They wear one, but not both colors.)

I'm U2 responsible for V team and I count 14 players (it was hard, trust me). Later 'R' comes back from table says we almost had a problem b/c V only had 13 names in the book. Whoever copied the names in the book completely skipped a player(Help your R understand the rules properly and inform him that it does not matter what was copied into the book, but rather what the team supplied to the scorer.)

Game 2:

I'm the 'R' and U1 has to call my first 2 tosses back b/c I out-tossed the 6'7" & 6'5" jumpers and they completely miss the ball both times.(Why did your U1 call back either toss? Unless the ball strikes the floor without either jumper touching it, it is a legal toss and the game should continue. Ugly does not equate to illegal.)

As I'm waiting to start the 2nd quarter, crew member from the game prior to mine points out that one of the players is wearing a frayed cut-off undershirt. I let my partner know and he goes to inform the coach. But I was happy to see the player immediately run back to the locker room.(While the previous game official is correct, he should not say anything to you as he is not part of this game. It is your crew's job to notice this and take care of it.)

We may or may not have screwed up a possession arrow (I still don't think we did). But I have a coach who is telling me that it's a correctable error and that we should wipe out the subsequent basket and foul 🙄

Partner has an unruly fan directly behind bench. My partner DOES NOT GIVE HIM THE STARE. Partner notifies game admin who have the Sherriff's deputy escort out the offender.(An official out here told a fan to "Sit down and shut up" during a game yesterday! The whole gym heard him say it. I wonder what some people would think of that.)

I receive my first ever police escort after a game :cool:

BktBallRef

BadNwsRef, good thing NVRef was around. I'm sure you didn't know what to do in any of those situations.

HawkeyeCubP

BadNewsRef wrote
I'm the 'R' and U1 has to call my first 2 tosses back b/c I out-tossed the 6'7" & 6'5" jumpers and they completely miss the ball both times.

Enlighten me: What's wrong with the jumpers (I assume you mean at the toss' apex) missing the ball?

Dan_ref

Nevadaref wrote
My comments are in red.

I'm the 'R' and U1 has to call my first 2 tosses back b/c I out-tossed the 6'7" & 6'5" jumpers and they completely miss the ball both times.(Why did your U1 call back either toss? Unless the ball strikes the floor without either jumper touching it, it is a legal toss and the game should continue. Ugly does not equate to illegal.)

If both players "completely miss the ball" then why would you doubt the ball "strikes the floor without either jumper touching it"?

Is this yet another type of 3rd world play I'm not getting?

Nevadaref

Because I've seen it many times where the two jumpers initially miss the ball, but are able to hit it on a second swipe after returning to the floor and prior to the ball striking the floor.

Nevadaref

BktBallRef wrote
BadNwsRef, good thing NVRef was around. I'm sure you didn't know what to do in any of those situations.

Shut up. 😛

Dan_ref

Nevadaref wrote
Because I've seen it many times where the two jumpers initially miss the ball, but are able to hit it on a second swipe after returning to the floor and prior to the ball striking the floor.

Oh, why didn't I think of that?

Let's go back and look...

I'm the 'R' and U1 has to call my first 2 tosses back b/c I out-tossed the 6'7" & 6'5" jumpers and they completely miss the ball both times

Oh yeah, that's why.

Any other 3rd world explanations you need to pull out of yerazz?

Corndog89

BadNewsRef wrote
I receive my first ever police escort after a game 😎

My first 3 years calling varsity was in the Florida panhandle...there were always armed police at games. They would stand near our exit to take us from the floor to the locker room...and often actually escorted us all the way. A few times they even escorted us to the parking lot. Hell, I thought that was ops normal. 🙂

Raymond

Corndog89 wrote
My first 3 years calling varsity was in the Florida panhandle...there were always armed police at games. They would stand near our exit to take us from the floor to the locker room...and often actually escorted us all the way. A few times they even escorted us to the parking lot. Hell, I thought that was ops normal. 🙂

Newport News and Hampton both provide at least 2 armed policepersons (hi Juulie) at every public HS game within their city limits. But they've never escorted any of my crews out before last night. I believe it occurred this time b/c the school with the ejected fan has been involved in 2 off-court incidents this season (neither of these 2 events involved players or coaches).

Raymond

Nevadaref wrote
My comments are in red.

Nevada, I wasn't posting b/c we didn't know how to handle each situation. Just that it was weird to me that these thing happened to me for the first time this season all within a 24-hour period.

The cut-off undershirt I feel embarassed about b/c I had noticed sometime was funny about the kid's uniform but it just didn't register in my brain what was wrong.

As far as the missing name from the scorebook, the 'R' discovered the problem during his pre-game conference with the table and had the problem corrected on the spot. Nevada, are you saying that the 'R' should have administered a T? (just curious)

Corndog89

BadNewsRef wrote
Newport News and Hampton both provide at least 2 armed policepersons (hi Juulie) at every public HS game within their city limits. But they've never escorted any of my crews out before last night. I believe it occurred this time b/c the school with the ejected fan has been involved in 2 off-court incidents this season (neither of these 2 events involved players or coaches).

I was doing a rivalry game between 2 small town Florida panhandle schools that were only 15-20 miles apart and a brawl broke out in the stands. 7 or 8 cops seemed to appear out of nowhere and had it totally under control in about a minute and a half. I got to say I was most impressed...and most relieved.

BTW, we found out later that 3 fans spent the night in jail, all over a HS basktball game...just amazing.

Adam

BadNewsRef wrote
NevadaAs far as the missing name from the scorebook, the 'R' discovered the problem during his pre-game conference with the table and had the problem corrected on the spot. Nevada, are you saying that the 'R' should have administered a T? (just curious)

No, I think he was concerned by the R saying you almost had a problem. Nevada, I think, is indicating that the visitors had done their part and a T wouldn't have been called for because the visitors had supplied the book on time.
That said, taking care of it early (like your R did) prevents a problem; because even if you don't call a T in the end, you've still got a delayed game while the whole mess gets sorted out once V13 comes into the game.

Nevadaref

Snaqwells wrote
No, I think he was concerned by the R saying you almost had a problem. Nevada, I think, is indicating that the visitors had done their part and a T wouldn't have been called for because the visitors had supplied the book on time.
That said, taking care of it early (like your R did) prevents a problem; because even if you don't call a T in the end, you've still got a delayed game while the whole mess gets sorted out once V13 comes into the game.

That is correct.

Raymond

Snaqwells wrote
No, I think he was concerned by the R saying you almost had a problem. Nevada, I think, is indicating that the visitors had done their part and a T wouldn't have been called for because the visitors had supplied the book on time.
That said, taking care of it early (like your R did) prevents a problem; because even if you don't call a T in the end, you've still got a delayed game while the whole mess gets sorted out once V13 comes into the game.

OK Snaq, I see what you are saying. I was just trying to understand why Nevada felt I needed to educate my 'R' on anything.

Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Because I've seen it many times where the two jumpers initially miss the ball, but are able to hit it on a second swipe after returning to the floor and prior to the ball striking the floor.

Dan_ref wrote
Oh, why didn't I think of that?

Let's go back and look...

Quote:

I'm the 'R' and U1 has to call my first 2 tosses back b/c I out-tossed the 6'7" & 6'5" jumpers and they completely miss the ball both times

Oh yeah, that's why.

Any other 3rd world explanations you need to pull out of yerazz?

I'm still of the belief that the toss was legal. He had TWO different tosses, which his U1 called back because the jumpers missed the ball when they jumped up for the tap. Perhaps the U1 didn't even wait to see if they might hit it after landing.
I'd like BadNews to clarify. There are many officials who don't understand this properly.

My U1 did it to me on Friday night. A1 and B1 both swung and missed when going after the ball near its apex, but A1 hit it when it was at chest level.
Since we now had an IW, without team control or the AP arrow established, I did the only thing that I could. I tossed it again.

Raymond

Nevadaref wrote
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
Because I've seen it many times where the two jumpers initially miss the ball, but are able to hit it on a second swipe after returning to the floor and prior to the ball striking the floor.

I'm still of the belief that the toss was legal. He had TWO different tosses, which his U1 called back because the jumpers missed the ball when they jumped up for the tap. Perhaps the U1 didn't even wait to see if they might hit it after landing.
I'd like BadNews to clarify. There are many officials who don't understand this properly.

My U1 did it to me on Friday night. A1 and B1 both swung and missed when going after the ball near its apex, but A1 hit it when it was at chest level.
Since we now had an IW, without team control or the AP arrow established, I did the only thing that I could. I tossed it again.

Nevada, I see you are trying to show off your HTML skills. 😎

Let me clarify the situation:

1st jump: Both jumpers missed the ball at its apex and then the ball hit hit both jumpers and landed in the circle.

2nd jump: Both jumpers missed the ball at its apex and this time the ball came down to earth without contacting either jumper.

But, IREFU2 was the U2 for this scenario, maybe he can jump in and give a better or more accurate description. I could be missing something.

Jurassic Referee

BadNewsRef wrote
Let me clarify the situation:

1st jump: Both jumpers missed the ball at its apex and then the ball hit hit both jumpers and landed in the circle.

2nd jump: Both jumpers missed the ball at its apex and this time the ball came down to earth without contacting either jumper.

I could be missing something.

No, you're not missing a damn thing and you know it.

The ball has to be touched BY one of the jumpers in order to have a legal jump. Rule 6-3-6. If the ball just touches one of the jumper's body instead, then it's not a legal jump. Your original post very clearly said anyway that both jumpers missed the ball both times. You and your partner were completely right, by rule, to re-jump both times.

Lah me, Nevada, I know you were trying to make a point re: what constitutes a legal jump, but you sureasheck are going about it the wrong way. You shoulda thrown in a "what if" to make your point. News and his partner had the right call both times.

IREFU2

BadNewsRef wrote
Newport News and Hampton both provide at least 2 armed policepersons (hi Juulie) at every public HS game within their city limits. But they've never escorted any of my crews out before last night. I believe it occurred this time b/c the school with the ejected fan has been involved in 2 off-court incidents this season (neither of these 2 events involved players or coaches).

Hey Badnews, you had your girl to protect you!!!!! As far as for me, I kept getting stopped by good looking women wanting to chat!!!!