a)A1's shot attempt is airborne, b)or A1's shot attemp is blocked, with 5 sceonds remaining on the shot clock, which does not strike the ring or backboard. B2 and A2 both obtain possession resulting in a held ball. The possession arrow favors Team A. The shot clock shows 0, but no horn has sounded. What should the officials do?

I don't work with a shot clock, so, take my comment accordingly...

The clock may show 0 before time has actually expired. Some clocks show 0 when there are really 0.9 seconds left. It depends on the clock design. Some will only show 0 when it is really 0.0.

Verify with the shot clock operator that the horn is turned on. If so, give A the throw-in and be ready for a quick horn...there is time left, but it is less than 1 second. Sometimes, the control unit will display more digits than the scoreboard.

Now, I get outside what I may be able to support with any rules but it stems from logical reasoning (and Rule 2-3).

If the horn was not on, you could still have time left, but you can't tell unless the control unit shows the time or the clock operator knows that it was on 0 for more than 1 second. You administer the throw-in to A, ready for the horn. If it sounds the instant the clock turned on, it was out. Call the shot clock violation and give the ball to B.

Again, I am not a shot clock user, so this may not be congruent with any official interpretation.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Oct 31st, 2001 at 04:32 PM]

This is a trick question ..... if both A and B grab the ball at the same time, then you have a reset of the shot clock on. The resaon being is that once the shot was taken team control was lost. Since they both grabbed the ball at the same time, there is no team control reastablised. If B grabbed it frist then A then you still have a reset, because you had a change of poss. If A grabbed it first then B, then you play until there is a horn. Keep in mind that on the in bounds play you must have a tip, and not a try.

Why does it ave to be a tip and not a try?

If the shot clock is at 0 and the horn hasn't sounded, then it's going to sound as soon as the clock is started. Therefore, there isn't time for a player to catch the ball and shoot it.

I don't think it needs to be a tap for three reasons:

(1) There could be up to 0.9 seconds on the clock, which is more than the 0.3 which is allowed for a try.

(2) The rules state that the 0.3 second rule only applies when the clock displays tenths of seconds. If the clock shows just 0, there is no 1/10th display, so no tap/try rule.

(3) I don't think there is a rule stating that 1/10ths apply to the shot clock. The only rule I've found is NCAA 4-65-5, which states (in part):

When the game clock displays 10ths of seconds and . . . 3/10 of a second or less remains on the game clock . . . can only score a field goal by means of a tap.

No one is suggesting that there's a rule that states this. But every shot clock that I've ever been around holds for one second at 30. Therefore, when it reaches 0, there is not 0.9 remaining.

When there is no rule, you have to use common sense.

There is a rule, however - NCAA 2-13-8: When the shot clock indicates :00 but the shot-clock horn has not sounded, the shot-clock time has not expired.

That holds true for any clock, shot or game clock. But that doesn't mean that there's 0.9 left.

You really have to check the clock during the game and determine how it works. It's possible that a player could get a shot if with the shot clock at 0, but highly unlikely, if it's started properly.

I just tell myself that it must be a tip, so that I am ready for that horn. If it takes to long, then I am ready to blow it dead. Oz is right in saying that there is no 1/10ths of a second. It is just my way of getting ready for it. Sorry for that.

Dennis, I'm afraid you're incorrect on this. It's true that team control is lost on the shot attempt, but the shot clock is not reset unless the ball actually hits the rim. So, assuming the arrow is pointing to A, if the shot goes up, and A1 and B1 simultaneously secure control of the ball, the ball is awarded to A with the unexpired time on the shot clock. This would also be the case if A1 secured the rebound and then was tied-up by B1.

If B secures the ball first, then we have a different story, obviously.

Chuck

Just to let you know, I am right on this one. It is in the book. Team control ends on a try for goal. Thus if both A and B grab the ball at the same time, who has control. Both have the ball so you have a reset. This is different than if A got it first, because A regained control. In the simultaneous situation there is no team control. This is a college rule, and the state of california uses the college rule for shot clocks.

Dennis,

You be the man on this one! Reset the shot clock on the held ball regardless of which team has the arrow, per NCAA rules.

I'm with Chuck, A gets it back with "0" on the shot clock.
We can't assume how much time is left so there's no
requirement for a tap, as opposed to a catch & shot.

Got an NCAA rule reference for that? I honestly think you're incorrect. I'm going to pull out my NCAA rulebook, but I'm almost sure that if the offensive team is going to retain the ball after the AP, they get the unexpired time.

Chuck

I agree with Chuck. The clock shot is only *not* reset if the defense causes the held ball. This is not the case here, so the shot clock *is* reset. See Rule 2.13.6c and the exceptions 2.13.7d and h.

In the yearly packet we get from the NCAA 2001 - 2002 Officiating Program. Under the Shot clock situations, it talks about this play. Under D #6 it says that if it is simultainiously grabbed by both A and B then you have a reset. This is what I was saying in the earlier post. The key thing is who gets the ball first A or B or both at the same time.

Dennis, is there any rationale given for that ruling? It seems to be at odds with the normal reset rules: 1) hit the rim; 2) defensive foul; 3) kick; 4) change of possession.

What's the reasoning behind this ruling? Is any given?

Chuck

Chuck,

Here is logic behind new shot clock on this play.

Rule 2-13.6.c The shot clock operator shall stop the timing device and reset it when a held ball occurs. (Exceptions as follow)

Exc 2-13.7.d Stop the timing device and continue time without a reset when play begins under the following circumstances: During team control as defined in 4-13, a defensive player causes a held ball and the AP arrow favors the offensive team.

Exc 2-13.7.g Stop the timing device and continue time without a reset when play begins under the following circumstances: After any technical foul.....
this has nothing to do with the play in question.

Under the first exception listed above, there must be team control. Since the airball was simultaneously possessed by both teams, this criteria was not met. Therefore there must be a reset of the shot clock.

If Team A had momentarily possessed the shot and then was tied up by Team B, there would be no reset.

In other words, the exception only comes into play if there is a held ball while there is team control. I guess I can live with that, although I don't really see why they should make that stipulation. Thanks for the clarification. Now I gotta go dig through my rule book to see for myself :)

Chuck

I think there's a typo in the NCAA rule book. The two exceptions should be 2-13.7d and 2-13.7h (*not* 2-13.7g, which is what's printed).

h . After a simultaneous held ball as described in Rule 7-4.1.g occurs
during a throw-in and the alternating-possession arrow favors
the throw-in team.

which then refers to

7-4.1 The ball shall be awarded out of bounds after:
g . A held ball as in Rule 4-35.

Aargh!!! This refers to

4-35 Definition of held ball.

Gotta love rule books!