Blarge--does it exist?
 

This is from a discussion being held over on the NFHS forum. This was posted by an official who calls himself Joe Advantage. It was in response to a poster asking how you should handle a classic "blarge"- i.e. one official calling a block and the other official calling a charge. It basically was the exact same play as outlined in case book play 4.19.8SitA.

Following are Joe Advantage's comments re: a blarge.

<i>It is impossible. Someone is wrong. Legal guarding position was obtained or it was not a block OR it's a charge. IT IS NOT BOTH. That's a BS call. It's the worst call in basketball anyone who calls it does the game a great dis-service. How hard is to say to the other official "well, I didn't have the best look or you may have had a better look or it was your primary". It's a BS call. A total cop-out and I have never called it in 18 years and will NEVER call it. Plus read what is legal guarding position and what is a charge and tell me HOW you can have both. Impossible. It's one or the other. The book only gives you an escape route. In this case you have two bonehead officials who won't agree that someone had a better view.
First, there is NO rule for a "blarge". There is only a "what to do" if you have it, a "what to do" if you have two separate calls and can't agree on one of them. There is NO rule, only a resolution, and it's the only listed resolution because the NFHS did not want to say - "the two officials will have to stand there at mid-court and argue who is correct until a decision as to whether it was a legal guarding position or not is decided by the two officials involved. Again "COP-OUT" and please show me in the rule book how you can have legal guarding position on a player at the same time. Impossible, it's just two people with contradicting calls.
The case book isn't "rules". The forward states "the interpretations and rulings...are official" but they are NOT rules. They are listed as "situations" and if two knuckleheads call a double foul in situation 4.19.8SitC that's how to rule it, but NOWHERE does it say that you HAVE to call a double foul. And I still say "Don't" because you cannot have a charge and a block between the same two players at the same time. It's one or the other. </i>

Those are JoeAdvantage's statements pretty much <i>verbatim</i>. Your comments? I'll hold mine until later.

I agree with him, but perhaps with a bit better use of paragraphs and maybe a little less repetition.

If I were ever to end up in a blarge situation, we certainly wouldn't come out with a double foul. I'd pretend I was working an NCAA-W game, if only for a moment.

But knock wood, it hasn't happened in 20 years, although earlier this year my partner and I both called a charge simultaneously by pointing down the floor. :)

I will hold my comments until yours. :D

How hard can it be to say "Well, you had a better look than me"??? I don't have a problem with that, but I know folks that do. And if they're working together, well, there you are. From the perspective of the NFHS, and the NCAA, it's that simple.

I also don't like anyone calling the call BS. But that's just part of my current campaign against vulgarity (on the board, Tony).

i agree with him -- you cannot have a block and a charge --

let me predict JR's response

"The rule states XYZ -- therefore XYZ"

rain -- he was calling the blarge BS -- which it is

Ahhh if I remember, I believe this is one of the first topics I posted on whenever I joined The Forum. As I recall, MTD Sr. and I agreed on this subject, but like Tom, I'm holding mine until I hear yours! ;)

I like it! I was always taught to hold the call as the outside official, and give it to the official the play is coming to. If there is some confusion and he defers to your look, make your call. Considering most of these calls happening in or near the paint.

I hope to never have to have a blarge in one of my games. Maybe cuz I'm chicken. I got lucky the other night, like Rich, where me and my part. both had a quick charge call, pointing and everything, in fact I was doing the nba thing and waving it off! woulda looked stupid if I was doing that and my partner had a block. I think I blew it quick, cuz it was an obvious charge. I had one later in the game which wasn't so obvious and I held for a split sec.

Call the "Blarge" and move on.:D

What an insightful and informative comment. Your wisdom and personal maturity come from where, pray tell? :rolleyes:

why can't you just agree with me all the time, like you agreed in another thread? :))

Why?:confused: Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I certainly have mine, but that's just me and no one else. What I personally think should never be a factor in what anybody else thinks.

And I don't believe for a minute that anything I say will really have any affect on Tomegun's thinking either. :) He'll make up his own mind, never mind my view. And that's the way it should be.

I retract my earlier statement -- I now 100% agree with rain on all future and current threads...

I understand his views and believe that logically he has a point. However, once both officials signal, the proper rules must be followed. In that regard both Joe and Rich are totally wrong. What they advocate doing is directly contrary to this year's POE #5. It was written for people who have just those views.

Now, see how simple that is? :D

In return for your gracious contraction, I promise that if we ever work together, and have a double whistle on a block/charge, I'll let your call stand 100%. How's that?

Actually, I don't mind you disagreeing about the blarge. I just don't like the name-calling.

Please note that is is about what you do <b>after</b> a blarge has occurred. Iow, <b>after</b> both officials have already made conflicting signals.

That's what a blarge is.

fine i wont call you or anyone else here a blarge ever again

There is no blarge. But we do it to ourselves as officials. Last week, I had a boys varsity game. I was the U1. The R for the pre-game talked about the blarge. He said if we have it, we will sell it and call it as a blarge. I said that if we have a blarge then it will either be a block or a charge. He said he had it in a game the other day. He said both coaches were mad, but that is just the way it is.

I said we are going to have a block or charge not a blarge. Guess what in the game we had this game situation. The ball was in my primary as C, I called the charge against the Visiting team. The T was going to call a block. I took the call. IT WAS CLEARLY A CHARGE. The visiting coach begged for a block and proceeded to say it was a "blarge". I told him not to go there. I saw the play and it was clearly a charge.

At half time the offical who was at the T wanted to know why we didn't call a blarge. I re-iterated that there is no blarge. I told him if the ball was in his primary I would have backed off and let him call the block. BUT REMAIN IN PRIMARY UNLESS YOU ARE 200% SURE YOUR PARTNER KICKED IT!!!

He said that he had been taught that a blarge was okay. I told him it was a bail out call. The R said that I should never say that. Sometimes you can't avoid the blarge. Then I told him that is why pre-game is so important!!!

These blarges and other things (e.g., coach's box, calling the travel before A1 creams B2 after A1 gains control of the ball and turns and hits B2) we call or don't call, we bring upon ourselves. When you have the officials calling it correctly, you look like the odd ball.

Are you saying that case book play 4.19.8SitC doesn't exist? Or that it should <b>never</b> be followed? Even if both officials have already made conflicting signals?

Please explain what you're getting at. I'm not quite sure.

Juulie, do you discuss play situations with the chihuahua that lives down the street?

Think about it. Then just ignore.

If this was an NFHS game, then I'm 100% sure that YOU kicked it.

On the play you describe, once the Trail signaled a block and you signaled a charge, you need to correctly apply the rules as written in 4.19.8SitC.
The visiting coach had every right to insist that a blocking foul was also reported on the play.

If I am working an NFHS game or an NCAA-M game, then we as a crew will report both fouls and go with the POI...if I am woking an NCAA-W game, we will decide which one to go with...the guy from the other forum can feel however he wants to about the NFHS way of handling it, but to make up his own way or handle it like iref4him did is to unfairly penalize one team/coach...you can't do that under those rulesets!

Having said that, I think those who have been on this board long enough know my personal feelings about the blarge and the way it is handled under the different rulesets. But, when in Rome...

That's my point: I don't NEED to do anything.

I have never understood why this is a special situation.

If my partner signals a held ball and I have a fist up for a foul, we don't apply both. If I call a travel and my partner has a foul, we don't call both.

Like I said, 20 years without this happening and the closest I got was earlier this season, although my grandmother could've made the charge call and she died 20 years ago.

I would like to think I could sidestep the rule book and do what I posted earlier, but I'm cursed with a pretty good knowledge of the book and a history of enforcing it even when it wasn't the easy or popular thing to do.

Do you two have an announcement you'd like to make?

Rich:

I agree with you 100%. I have argued this point for years. The rules as written prohibit blarges. Either it is a block or it is a charge, not both.

MTD, Sr.

I took the question as if I know the rule and what my opinion would be despite the rule. That is how I will answer it regardless.
Take some game awareness, scoop out some ego (throw it away) and add a pinch of calling in your own area and there would be no such thing as a blarge. You take that out of the rule book or make it optional and it would never happen in one of my games. It is a cop out rule IMO, but I follow what is in the book. Hey, we can't agree with everything; we just have to apply the rules.

Hey, where did this guy come from?

so what do we have for the signal? one hand behind ur head indicating charge, one fist moving down towards your hip indicating block, and one leg pointing the direction we are goin?:eek: :D

Stupid discussion. You might as well argue that there's no such thing as a jump stop.

As Rocky said each rule set has their own way of handling this sitch. The one and only time I was involved in a blarge (ncaa-m game) we got together, I said "you had a what??" he said "you had a what??" and we penalized both fouls. Both coaches were fine with it..."heh...yeah, all right...that's fine..." and they both asked who gets the ball. No biggie. Life went on.

I'm a hockey fan. The one call that infuriates me is a hook/hold on one player and a unsportsmanlike dive on the other. If he had to dive to go down, why penalize the hook/hold?

He already made it. I'm always right from now on. End of discussion.

Oh, oh....BS!

:D

I'm not in agreement here. While I think it's not common, I think the rules allow for a block/charge just as they allow for a double foul away from the ball. It's very possible for two players to foul each other simultaneously; even if one has the ball.

A1 dribbling down the court holding up an "arm bar" and pushing B1 just as B1 is reaching and hacking the dribbling arm. What do you call?

Or A1 extending his arm to push B1 who is moving but not in LGP; both players fall. What do you call?

You know, I have reached the same agreement with...wait for it... my wife. :D

I'm just sayin'.

Are you saying that case book play 4.19.8SitC doesn't exist, Mark? Or that you refuse to follow it?

Please elaborate.

The problem with a blarge is that the signals have already been made. That's the unfortunate part.

That's is not a blarge. What you've described is a bareach (in layman's terms) or an illegal use of push. In your second one, it's a blush. ;)

Your wife works for the...wait for it... SEC?

Nfhs
 

I think this rule should be changed like in the NCAA-W League. If you have a so called blarge, come together and try and decided the call. Or, NO PRELIMS!!!!

I would respond, but its Friday and naaaaaa......forget it.

Yeah, really fair.
 

Yeah, and the coach who got the call against them is going to be really happy that you choose them as the only foul. Now that other call you did not give them, they really are going to think they got screwed on that play. Considering you had to come together and make a decision. Really good rule. :rolleyes:

Peace

JR, you are confusing iref4him with IREF4U.

Unless, of course, you are saying that in your case that u and him are the same person. Which would mean that Jurassic thinks he is....wait, here it comes......God. It's true, it's true!!!:p

Nope he is referring to my post somewhere else.....just another case of mass confusion and trying to be in two places at one time. By the way, I am the jacket carrier tomorrow!!!!

He's referring to iref4him in this thread and IREF4U in the "Dukies" thread. Trust me, I know of what I speak. That's why I'm the 'R' tomorrow. :cool:

Quote:

The case book isn't "rules"

All I had to do was read this. If he would have posted this in the beginning then it would have saved me the trouble of reading his post. I don't have a problem with him having an opinion on how it should be handled but to say that you are WRONG to administer it the way the rule book says is ludicrous.

You're right. I did. That was stupid and wrong. I went back and deleted my posts, and I apologize to both parties.

...and I was just about to start a thread entitled "Is it possible for JR to be stupid and wrong?"

Of course. It's called <b>multi-tasking</b>. Apparently I'm quite adept at it.

Interesting discussion.

Under FIBA rules there is no such thing as a blarge. So, what do we do if something like that happens? First of all we always make a decision for one foul, block or charge.

Now for mechanics, to avoid one partner signalling a block while the other is already punching in the new direction for a charge, we teach young referees, not to point at the defender or give the block signal when you have a block on a very close call. Just raise your fist, and make eye contact with your partner if you have a double whistle. If he got a charge, go with the charge. Since it is very common to raise your fist first and then punch for the charge, in a best case scenario nobody will even notice that there was a disagreement in the first place.

If both partners have already given their signals, we will get together and decide on one foul. The guy who changes his call will signal the final decision to avoid the impression that he has been overruled. For the problem of two guys who both can't give in and take back their call, they won't be around for long ....

Do we need to start another forum category just on the "blarge". We've hashed this over for a long time, every year. We all know that if good mechanics are followed, you won't end up with this situation. We also know that on occasion it's going to happen. I haven't had it in a game yet, but I know better than to say it will never happen. Most of us would get together and go with whichever call came from the primary. If you can't come to agreement, call them both. It's really not all that complicated.

Case (b) is easy: the contact is caused by A1. It is a foul for the defender causing a contact without having LGP. It is not required to have LGP at all times: the defender who has LGP at the moment of the contact doesn't have responsibility for it; the rules don't say that a defender not in LGP is responsible for any contact.

In case (a) the defender must have very long arms, if I picture correctly the situation. Penalize the first contact.

The rules don't prohibit a "blarge" call, just because they can happen; it's the fault of the officials, though. Blarges shouldn't happen if they make a good team job.

In FIBA we are required to raise the fist before giving the team control foul signal. This helps to avoid blarge calls, because it gives time to realize there has been a double whistle; the official with the play in their primary will decide if it is a charge or a block. Or maybe the officials will confer, if one of them has something that the other one could not see. Blarge calls happen, in fact, when one of the official makes immediately the team control foul signal.

I have to contradict you: one thing is the mechanics to be used in "double whistle" cases, another thing are the rules. If one official calls "block" and the other one calls "charge", both fouls should be charged: it is too late to ignore one of the calls.

47.7 Each official has the power to make decisions within the limits of his duties, but has no authority to disregard or question decisions made by the other official(s).

As I have written in another message, it is surely possible that the officials confer in order to make a decision. But they have to sell it very well: for example supplying information that something big has happened that one of the officials couldn't see. In a simple charge/block situation with a blarge call, the officials have to live with their error and charge both fouls.

Remember to always raise your fist on a foul, you'll never be in troubles about blarges.

Ciao

It also isn't the point of this thread either, Junker. The point isn't that you should never have a blarge or how to avoid a blarge. The point is that if a blarge actually <b>does</b> happen, do you then follow the direction of the applicable rule book, be it NFHS, NCAA Mens or NCAA Womens, which is what you said above that you personally would have done? Or would you follow your <b>own</b> view of how the play should be handled? JoeAdvantage, IRef4Him and MTD Sr. are all basically saying that they would apply the NCAA Womens ruling to all NFHS and NCAA Mens situations, even though both of those ruleset rulings are completely different. Iow, it's the same as applying a FIBA rule to something that happened in a D1 Mens Final Four game, simply because you like the FIBA rule better.

Anyone, feel free to correct me if I mis-read any of those parties' posts, but I think that I interpreted them correctly.

My original question was just simply wondering how everyone feels about JoeAdvantage's (<i>et al</i>) position that the procedure outlined in the cited NFHS case book play should <b>not</b> be followed <b>after</b> a blarge has occurred.

Note that I still haven't given my personal opinion....yet.

But Junker, this is proper if one or neither of the officials give a preliminary, but if BOTH officials give conflicting preliminaries, then by rule we are supposed to have a double foul. And a lot of coaches know this.

I would rather piss off both coaches by enforcing the letter of the rulebook as opposed to pissing off one coach who can then go back to our assignor, cite the case book, and say we didn't enforce a rule properly.

What he said. I don't like how it's written but if it happens I have to follow the caseplay.

I agree, if no prelims are used, then everyone is safe. But is so hard!!!!!!!

And all of us await with baited breath. (Of which I never understood that term, because I really don't like the taste of worms...)

By rule, both a block and a charge/player control foul really can't happen at the same time. So, "blarge" is simply a term used to describe what happens when two officials have different calls on the same play, not the play itself. With proper mechanics, blarges should never happen. I have even been involved with a call where it happened in my primary, I came out immediately with the block call, and didn't know until later my partner was starting to come out with the charge, saw me give my signal, and dropped his. Of course the coach saw my partner start to give his signal, and asked why he gave it up. He told the coach he wasn't really signalling, he was just fixing his hair. :D Good way to wiggle out of it, but if he hadn't seen me, then we would've had to do what the book says: call both fouls and go to POI. I don't like that, and we would also try to do as much as possible to avoid that situation, but if it happens, it's pretty clear how the Fed. wants it handled.

For those who didn't want to read the novel, the <b>Coles Notes</b> version is above.

Or....shut (mostly) up.:D

Btw, the Cubbies just signed Cliff Floyd. Which brings up the natural follow-up question...."Is a MLB team allowed to have <b>two</b> DL's?"

I agree, I don't understand the term "baited breath." I do, however, understand the similar-sounding phrase "bated breath."

Hey, I haven't been around much lately, so I've got a lot of pent-up posting in me.

So, shut (all the way) up. :D

I'm not sure how that works, if you have two DH's, do you just go with the one and ignore the other, or do you report both? :confused:

I would like to ask a question to those in the "call it as I want to" category.

If you are in the last 5 seconds of a High School Championship game with the score tied and there is a blarge. Both coaches are former officials and know the rule. Are you going to handle it per the rule book or your own rules?

It sure seems that the smart way of handling this situation is to do what the rule book says so that you are in the clear.

I love multiple-use posts...

There were a number of threads lately about all games being equally important. With that in mind...how about if this was a Tuesday afternoon 4th grade CYO contest coached by first-time Bob Knight wannabe's?

NO I am not saying that it doesn't exist. What I am getting at is that if we have 4 eyes on the ball in the block/charge, then we don't trust our partner. The other thing is what is happening wiht the other players. We talk about primaries and trusting our partner, etc. I'm not saying it can't happen, I've seen it. Even though it is in the case book, what about the mechanics and officials manual - primaries, Who the play is coming to, etc.

A blarge is a bail out for crews who won't stick to the mechanics, IMO!

C'mon, not this tired argument.

The blarge is most likely to happen in cases where 4 eyes *should* be on the dribbler. If A1 is driving into the lane against a sea of defenders from the top of the key I'm not worried about who's watching "the other players". In this case we might even have 6 eyes "on the ball", at least until the shot goes up or he kicks it out.

I agree it's a break down in mechanics, but the breakdown is not because of where the officials were looking.

That's right, because there are no dual coverage areas. There will never be a time when both officials could legitimately have their eyes on the ball. That's right, no matter where the ball is, it is never okay to have two officials see the same play and blow their whistle right away. :rolleyes:

Snaqwells, you are absolutely correct....what would happen if say, you and I were working a game, and I had a foul, but I didn't get the shooter....and you were looking there and helped me out with that :eek: ....we would have anarchy....why would I ever want you to help me out there...why why why LOL....:cool: :D

1) Well, I'd check that out if I were you because someone must be using your computer. Someone calling themself <b>iref4him</b> posted the following yesterday at 6:36pm--<i><b>"There is no blarge!"</b></i>. :)

2) You also said in your own words <i>verbatim</i> in that post....
-<i>"I said that if we have a blarge, then it will be either a block or charge."
- "I said that we are going to have a block or a charge, not a blarge."</i>

I was just pointing out that you are saying, as per your statements above, that you would <b>not</b> follow the procedures laid out in case book play 4.19.8SitC and call the double foul. Iow, you would simply ignore the NFHS ruling. Is that correct?

Just making sure that <b>everyone</b> understands where you're coming from in this discussion.....:)

4.19.8 sit C reads: One official calls a blocking foul.........the other official calls a charging foul.

Signals are not mentioned. Is a signal binding? I think not. I make wrong signals all the time....well, not all the time. Just sometimes. Usually about
8:15. As I read this situation, you call a blarge if neither official is willing to change his call. This is not something I would hope to see happen, but if it does, (and it has happened to me) I prefer to confer quickly (What you got?) and come out with one call. We are not talking about two players simultaneously slapping each other on the arm, we are talking about contact on at least one player's torso. The definitions of block and charge speak for themselves.They can not possibly happen at the same time. I know, double foul definition includes the word approximately. Still, I say the two officials should get together, decide who did what to whom and which happened first, call it and forget it.

You mean a player can't have one foot below the FT line and one foot above? Or one foot in the lane on the trail's side and one foot out? Guess we have quantum players now! They can be on either side of a line but not on the line???

Did you miss the sarcasm or are you extending it? :)

Late...

I agree with Rich, MTD Sr., Joeadvantage, and whom(who)ever else pregames that if a blarge happens...get together and decide one or the other.

Beat me, whip me, shoot me...with apologies to the rule book purists...but, lets just say I don't understand this case book play...therefore, I must enforce this situation just as my crew and I pregamed.

Oh yeah...we pregame other situations too...such as, advantage/disadvantage, 3 seconds in the key, coaches boxes, assistants off the bench when they are not suppose to be, profanity by a player (under his breath), etc. Maybe not every pregame...but, get the point.;)

And when Coach ###*(*(* comes to you and says "I thought per the rulebook if 2 officials display conflicting foul calls in this situation then the officials are supposed to issue a double foul?" (remember, I'm playing the role of a coach, thus improper terms in my question :) )

What is your answer to said coach?

"Really, Coach...I think the rulebook also says something about Coach's not stepping out of their boxes too."

or (if the Coach is actually standing squarely in his box)

"Coach, we pregame this kinda stuff...one official had it one way, and the other offical had it the other way...we got together and determined who had the best look."

If the Coach continues...then, "Coach, we'd do the same for you if it was the other way." Then move on...

Interesting discussion. I do girls in NY (NCAAW rules, NFHS for boys). Why? Don't know.:confused:
According to the NYSGBOA on a double whistle foul (2-man), the call goes to the person whose primary area of responsibility the play is in.
Sometimes hard to do when it also states that both officials are on ball when the ball is in the paint.
As far as the block/charge it states "When in doubt it is a charge. Don't penalize good defense!!"

I'll just put it this way, NFHS rule is the same as the NCAA Mens' rule, and the NCAA Mens officials enforce the rule as written.

I'll just put it this way, are you sure you can speak for ALL the NCAA Mens officials?

And what do you do if your assignor or your evaluator asks you why you didn't follow the rules? Are you gonna try and lay the same...uh...stuff on them? Or is it an accepted procedure in your area not to follow the directions laid out in the rules?

Just wondering....

Yes......sir.

I can speak of seeing it happen on televised games. There was a thread about it the first week of the NCAA season. If it's good enough for them to follow the rules in this situation, it's good enough for me.

And anytime the subject has come in camp....nevermind.

Point is, it's in the rulebook. Plenty of coaches know it's in the rulebook. I want someone to illustrate the conversation they are going to have with a knowlegeable coach as to why the crew has decided to eschew a rule.

And tomorrow night, when I'm the crew chief, we'll pre-game the NFHS way. No one I have ever worked with has ever pre-gamed it differently.

All I can go by is conversations that I've had and blarges that I've seen handled in NCAA tv games(including a few this year), but I've never seen it handled any other way except by the procedure laid out in the rules. Iirc, there was a blarge in a recent Final Four or Eight game, and they went the double foul route. I just can't imagine them doing anything otherwise in a high profile game like that, after both officials had come out with conflicting signals.

Obviously, you have seen NCAA MENS officials handle it differently. What conference was it in?

OK....fine.:)

wait....wait.....here it comes............................

I'm still waiting also JR.

JR...I'm going to start typing this post before I even wait for a response from you for my last post. (Because I know you won't let that sleeping dog lay):p

You keep quoting Case book play 4.19.8(C)

For the record...here it is.

4.19.8 SITUATION C: A1 drives for a try and jumps and releases the ball. Contact occurs between A1 and B1 after the release and before airborne shooter A1 returns to the floor. One official calls a blocking foul on B1 and the other official calls a charging foul on A1. The try is successful.
RULING: Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player-control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try and the goal is scored. Play is resumed at the point of interruption, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line. (4-36)

As one poster said earlier...just because a signal is made, does that make it a call. If the "signal" was never reported...then does that mean it never happened, and thus was not an actual call? (you know...sort of like the tree in the forest);)

Your case play states two calls are made. Therefore, I am assuming both officials could not get together and decide which call to make. Soooo, in this case...you are correct...score the basket.

I am simply saying...that in my games...we will get together and come up with ONE call, not TWo...as stated in your case play.

If I am reading this case play wrong...then I guess I will miss this inteurpt...but, at least I will be consistent with what my fellow officials do in this area.

And that is just one of many reasons we have coaches that don't know the rules....there are officials that know them but think they are too big to follow clear rules so they make up their own....and some of the coaches will believe them.

Classy...threaten a coach with a T when he calls you on your made up rule.

I could pregame that we'll call a foul on B4 everytime he pivots left too...Or call a T on any player that hits the backboard in the process of blocking a shot....or call GT anytime a shot is blocked after it hits the backboard. That doesn't make it right.

Geeze, we got everybody doing it now...LOL...

Poor ol' SEC.....

Lah me.....:D

I take it then that <b>all</b> officials in your area will <b>always</b> come up with <b>one</b> call, even if they have already made conflicting signals. Iow, that's your standard philosophy- to basically follow the NCAA Womens rule in <b>all</b> games? Correct?

Question? Does that philosophy get applied uniformly and consistently at the state tournament level there too?

I do the same. However, I have seen many officials pregame to do things other than the NFHS way. One example that comes up frequently is defensive position under the basket. I've seen many crews/officials in NFHS games say that this is not a legal position from which to draw a charge. They will either call a block or nothing on the play. :(

Ok...I'm back. Sorry it has taken so long to respond to all these heart felt messages....but, I just got done with a H.S. Boys Varsity game that went into OT. Great game...no "blarges".

Edit:
I just deleted a whole bunch of rebutals I had to all the different responses.
I decided it isn't worth it...I'm apparently on the wrong side of this RULE debate with many on this forum...but, I can assure you I am on the right side of it around these parts.

JR...you are correct...all the college officials (mostly CC) that I officiate with go with the same procedure I have described.

While at State? I do as the Romans do.

When I get a chance, I'll ask a couple of D1 guys I know on how they would handle it in one of their Gonzaga games, etc. I promise you I will tell you what they say.

Gotta go...meeting a few friends at the local Applebee's for a couple Coors Light and some Late Night News footage.

That doesn't answer my question though, Dude. What do the Romans do at State? Call blarges if they occur by the case play or follow the NCAA Womens procedure?

I can't recall if the "Head Roman in Charge" (Crew Chief) even discussed this particular issue at any of the State tourneys I've been at, JR. But, I can assure you... if Julius wants it by the book...Julius will get it by the book.;)

Sidenote: I gave up my berth, to a State tourney this year, so someone else in our Association, that has never gone, can go. I'll ask him to bring this issue up and see how they want it called.
I will be doing some District and Regional games out of town...so I'll ask the boys, in those neigborhoods, how they administer blarges.

Thanks, Dude. The info will be appreciated.