Cat Fight!
 

Last night just after the start of the 4th quarter in my JV girls game (cross town rivals) we had a fight start in the stands. I am T (opposite) and I sense a commotion behind me before hearing someone yell. I glance back and two girls are really laying into each other. I am about to blow my whistle and get the players out of the area when I notice the girl with the ball is about to shoot. I hold my whistle a second, let her shoot and as soon as she releases give a tweet.

I immediately start trying to herd the girls to the bench and one girl from the visiting team takes a few steps backwards toward the fight...which has now moved onto the edge of the court. Not wanting her to get sucker punched from behind I grab her arm and yell "Watch it, clear the area"...to which she yanks her arm away and yells "Get off me", then notices the fight and scurries to the bench.

Teachers and security are there in a flash and break it up before a riot starts (and the gym was packed). We kept the game stopped while the police get there and escort the participants out. Coaches talk to their teams for a minute and we finish the game...took them a while to get back into the flow, each team turned it over on their next two possessions. Just before we resumed play, I went to the visiting team coach and told her I grabbed one of her players by the arm as she was unwittingly backing into the fight. She said "Yea, I saw that and got onto her for yelling at you." I just apologized to the girl and told the caoch "Completely understandable. All she knew was someone grabbed her just as all H was breaking out." Player said thanks as she was walking out onto the floor.

Guess the question is, would you have held the whistle for that second since the players were not in the immediate area of the fight? Keep in mind, I turned a little and could see what was happening off the floor out of the corner of my eye.

Larry, jmo but I think that you handled the whole situation well.

I think I'd stop play as quickly as possible for the purpose of safety, especially if the players are at risk in some manner. Just isn't worth anyone getting injured. Sometimes it's a wonder that sort of thing doesn't happen more often.

Seems to me you saw no danger in holding whistle until the shot was up. JMO you showed a lot of restraint, while understanding what was happening in front and behind you. Kudos to you. I don't think you're going to get any complaints either way considering the circumstances. If I had a choice in your situation, I'd like to think I would've handled it the same way.:D

Sounds like you handled a really bad situation in the best way possible. I hope I never have a fight situation, but if I do I hope I think as quickly as you did.

I agree. If you blow the whistle a second earlier, then Team A has possession and gets the ball back after the stoppage. If you wait a second to blow the whistle, then they get the shot they wanted. It's a no-lose.

A couple years ago, during a close score rival high school game, (the two teams' student cheer sections were sitting at opposite corners of the gym, filling their corner of the stand completely). They students were obnoxiously loud the whole game. As the final buzzer rang, one student threw a water bottle across the gym towards the other team. Just then, both teams cleared the bleachers in a matter or seconds and met in the middle. Us refs were running out anway, but could have got caught in the middle, if we werent already heading out. Police and school officials were on hand and overted an ugly scene, but it was a little unsettling to see the bleachers clear so quickly. It was at a christain school, so that may explain it. JK

I'd err on the side of blowing it dead sooner. Give the ball back to the team that had it, and no one is going to complain.

Just like we don't tolerate racism, I would hope that we don't tolerate blanket statements against religions here. Yes, there are Christians who are hypocritcal, but you can't paint us all with the same brush. I take offense to your remark.:(

I oppologize for that remark. I'm christian too, so it was like making fun of myself, but I guess you gotta be careful how you joke nowadays.

I am Christian myself, just an oberservation I have made tho, some of the worst games from everyone envolved are at Christian Schools.

Nice job handling a difficult situation. I had a similar situation earlier this season and did somewhat the same. In either case, I don't think anyone would fault you for your choice. Fact is, it all worked out OK, and you kept your head. Keep up the great work.

So, Larry, what was the result of the try and how did you resume the game? :D

BTW nice work on everything else. :)

I have had some bad games at Christian schools. I have had some excellent games at Christian schools.

I have had some bad games at public schools. I have had some excellent games at public schools.

Would you ever consider saying, "Just an observation I have made tho, some of the worst games from everyone involved are at black schools." I hope not. Because that's stereotyping. But it seems some people have no problem stereotyping Christians.

{rant on} As someone who has taught at Christian Schools and coached at Christian Schools for 15 years I take issue with some of the disparaging comments. I have attended/coached/officiated hundreds of games at Christian Schools. Only one time do I ever remember anything being remotely out of hand. I am curious though, do people think that because it happens at a Christian School that makes it any more wrong? Because a person is a Christian does not mean they have any more control of their emotions. Yes, we can get into a whole spiritual discussion here, but let's just say that Christians are not supernatural - they are human and we all know that sports brings out everyone's worst. The fact that you say "Well, it was at a CS so what do you expect" does bother me. I schedule officials for one of the local CS's here and my guys beg to go there because there's never a problem.

*sigh* OK, I feel somewhat better now. Thanks for listening. {rant off}<RANT off>

I thought enough ahead and knew the try was successful. As soon as the players were in the general area of their benches, I told my partner "We'll resume with black ball, end line throw-in after a made basket." I then signaled to the table to count the bucket. The coach of the home team asked me if I was sure it was black's ball as we were resuming play...I was able to tell her "100% sure, Coach."

Again, good job, Larry. Well handled imo.

I might agree, except that one point I think is crucial that hasn't been made. Which is that an awful lot of kids at Christian schools aren't Christian, so behaving badly isn't hypocritical for them. And some kids are there because they are problem kids who their parients are trying to keep in line, so they have a tendency toward bad behavior. So having the occasional riot at a Christian school certainly isn't surprising. Also, doesn't reflect on all Christian schools, or all Christians.

So acting badly is only hypocritical if you're christian?

And christian schools are now the dumping ground for kids with problems?

IMO we should be surprised at ANY riot at ANY school. But that's just me, what do I know?

No, that's not at all what I'm saying. Just that people tend to assume that anyone who uses the word Christian ought to always be a model of good behavior, and there are lots of different reasons why that assumption is simplistic and inaccurate. I was merely pointing out a couple reasons more that could be added to the list.

I think we should be saddened by ANY riot, at ANY school, but perhaps not always surprised. There are certain places and certain rivalries that just do have more problems.

As a Christian school coach, we do see a lot of people that think we are a "reform school".

Most of the kids here are members of the church that the school is tied to.

It is rare (at least in our school) that the others enroll more than a year. But I have seen a lot of problems arise from them. Same problems that they brought to the table when they were in a public school the year before.

On the flip side, yes, the Christian kids do have their share of problems, they still are kids.

Last I checked, christian kids go to public schools too. And I think that, yes, christian schools should be held to a higher standard.

Did you really have to black ball them? :p

Seriously, nice work. :)

I agree 100% with this statement.

I said I wasn't going to enter into this, but here goes.
1. Some Christian/Parochial schools have coaches, players, and fans that are jerks.
2. Some public schools have coaches, players, and fans that are jerks.
3. Some Christian/Parochial schools have coaches, players, and fans that are class acts.
4. Some public schools have coaches, players, and fans that are class acts.
5. Some games with Christian/Parochial schools have been a royal pain in the butt.
6. Some games with public schools have been a royal pain in the butt.
7. Some games with Christian/Parochial schools have been a joy to work.
8. Some games with public schools have been a joy to work.

Should Christian schools be held to a higher standard. IMO yes...because of the mission of the school, my Judeo-Christan value sytem, and my understanding of how a Christian is supposed to conduct themesleves on and off the court. That said, all coaches, adminstrators, school personnel, and teachers in all schools are held to a higher standard because of their positions of influence. AND AS LONG AS WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT, WE REFEREES SHOULD BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD! How many times have you been in a ref room and heard the vulgarity and filth spewing freely -- the same stuff that we would toss a coach or a player or fan for in a second and never look back. Last year my son and I were working a tournament. At the referee gathering place the guys were acting like a bunch of jr. high idiots with fithly jokes, horrible language, and bad behavior. My son who was a sophomore at the time watched guys who officiate his HS games and asked me, "Dad, how am I supposed to take those guys seriously? Everything they tell us in a pre-game speech not to do they were doing and saying?" The guys were acting like rejects from jr high. The kid had a point, you know. So before classifying any type of school as being better or worse, take a long look at the person staring back at you in the mirror and ask what kind of example you've been setting on and off the court when you're combing your hair before going on the court next game!

This is just one of the reasons I am thinking about giving up officiating. If not the crowd, its the coaches and players. No one has respect for officials or the game of basketball. I love the game, but after doing this for 10 years I have to think very hard is it all worth it.

Hang in there, Clay. It goes with the whistle, unfortunately.There are a lot of good coaches, players and fans out there. It's really a case of the <b>silent majority</b> versus the <b>vocal minority</b>. Unfortunately, one side gets noticed a heckuva lot more than the other.

Just remember.... they're booing the stripes, not the person.

I was talking with a friend last night, who said he could never referee because of the "heat" you take from other people. I think some people just can't take it. It takes a special breed of person to "feed" off the pressure, which I think I do in a sense. Or it just doesn't bother me what people think, when I know I'm always in the right. haha. Clay, I think, since you've been doing this 10 years, you must be cut out for it!! Keep on keepin on.

Did two -7th gr boys games last night. Between the games, a parent walks by our chairs tableside, said we did a good game but that we werent paid enough for the "grief we got".
I turned to pard, asked,"did you hear much out there?". I kinda remember a couple comments from fans(the usual, "He was fouled"), couches grumbled a little, but really an overall quiet game re: complaints.
I guess I let fans comments go in/out my ears and forget them as nonsense, and was stunned by that parents comment to us(not the compliment part, I heard that LOL).
Focus on the game and all else mostly fades away. Its like if you ever played a sport- during the game you dont even see/hear fans-just the game. Officiating BB, Ftball, Baseball is the same way for me...

Yes I would have held the whistle for the try, UNLESS the shooter had a clear try because the defender stopped due to being close to or affected by the fight.

I also think it's ok if for the purpose of preventing someone from being injured, you grab a player, especially when they don't know the imminent danger.