In our area we are experiencing some difficulty in getting all officials to call the "Allen Iverson" style "carry " consistently. We teach that it is a carry when the ball comes to rest in the hand with the back of the hand facing the floor during a dribble. Are any other associations or groups experiencing the same and if so, what are you doing to correct it.
Pistol |
It is not a requirement that the back of the hand be facing the floor for a carry to occur. That is a no-brainer. It is when the dribbler is manipulating the ball without actually having his/her hand underneath the ball where some of us are not making the correct carrying the ball call. In my pre-game I like to emphasize that if it is close and early in the game, it is a carry. The problem tends to go away by getting the border line call in this way.
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Part of the problem is....
Our state (Wisconsin) used a tape produced/distributed by the NFHS which had several extreeeemly poor illustrations. The demonstration of a "carry" was not "up to par".
Another very poor example was the "Block/Charge" illustration, but that is grounds another thread. |
Yep, I'm seeing inconsistent calls on this in my area
also. We "punish" those who are slow to call it by moving them up to the varsity list. Consistent violators go to state championships. (Only semi-tongue in cheek.) |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Padgett
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If big guy A2 is standing with one foot in the lane near the low block while A1 dribbles the ball above the 3-point line waiting for the final shot of the half, then A2 is not involved in the play. (You might say that he is involved in a possible put-back after the shot, but there's no way you're going to call 3-seconds while A1 dribbles down the clock.) Chuck |
When that big guy is standing with a foot in the paint I bet I yell "Get out of the key!" though. HS players will move; JH players are statues.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias
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Too often have I seen a player camping in the lane way outside - there is no call - and then that player gets a rebound he was not entitled to, or receives a dish off pass and has great position to go to the basket. If you want to adhere to the theory that you don't call this, go ahead. Perhaps a compromise would be to use a very vocal count, so the player has a warning to clear the lane. Of course, you would have to do that all game long, since players are always in the lane for some period of time. Call it properly according to the rule the first time it happens and by the third or fourth time you call it, they will get the message and you won't have to make judgement calls all night as to whether a player "is involved in the play" or not - because just when you think he is not - he is. |
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<I>Too often have I seen a player camping in the lane way outside - there is no call - and then that player gets a rebound he was not entitled to, or receives a dish off pass and has great position to go to the basket.</I>
<P> I'm not sure what you mean by "way outside" but there is no 3-seconds after the ball leaves a player's hands on a try, so what difference does it make? <P> <I>Call it properly according to the rule the first time it happens and by the third or fourth time you call it, they will get the message and you won't have to make judgement calls all night as to whether a player "is involved in the play" or not - because just when you think he is not - he is.</I> <P> Three seconds is the right call in many instances. However, when a trap is set at half court and there is a post player "in the lane" it is <B>NOT</B> a good call. That sort of play is what others are talking about -- something that is outside the spirit and intent of the rule. <P> BTW, how many multiple fouls did you call last season? :) |
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As to the post being in the lane during a trap and being called not being in the spirit and intent of the rule, change the rule so it is consistent with the spirit and intent. Besides, I'm not sure I agree with your statement anyway. Lastly, I have never called a multiple foul in 23 seasons. That's not because I don't want to, it's because it has never, ever, ever happened ;) |
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The 3 second violation is designed to prevent players from camping out in the lane, receiving a pass, and making an easy basket from an advantageous position. If a player is in the lane on the side opposite from where the play is being made, who cares? He is not even involved in the play! If a player is in the lane, and has the potential to receive the ball, and does not get out -- call it. If the player is in the lane 2 seconds, receives the ball and makes a move for the basket -- pause your count. If that player scores, great. If not, resume your count and make the 3 second violation call if he does not get out of the lane. However, IMHO, far too many officials make the 3 seconds call when it has absolutely nothing to do with what is going on in the game. It is just as important to understand the spirit and intent of the rule regarding 3 seconds is as it is for all the other rules. (i.e. Do you always call a technical foul when the books aren't ready 10 minutes before tip?) |
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Although we are off the original topic I have to agree totally with the last 2 threads re: 3 seconds calls and when to disregard same-Right On!
Pistol |
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All bets are off once the shot goes up... Who's to say that the player couldn't have gained the same rebounding position anyway? We can't be mind readers. Call the obvious violation and leave the nit-picky stuff to junior high officials :) |
I understand what you guys mean when you refer to the spirit of the rule but we shouldn't forget that if a player is in the lane for 3 seconds and the violation is called, then the other team gets the ball. To me it is kind of like sliding your pivot foot a half inch. The player doing it rarely would gain any advantage but if you don't call it, the other team is put at a disadvantage by not getting the turnover. I'm certainly not arguing with anyone because most of you guys have been calling ball much longer than me and I highly respect your opinions but I tend to agree with Mark that if you start calling it early, by the time the game heats up, they have quit doing it. Thanks, Ralph.
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I don't know how we got on to this 3 sec discussion.
Are we all afraid to discuss the inconsistencies we all have with the "carry" I originally talked about? One person inferred that if we call it correctly we won't advance up the ladder. Is that true in your area? One person said it's a no brainer- Oh - Excuse me - if it's that easy why aren't we calling it consistently. I watched a varsity tournament last year where one very popular player violated the carry rule every time he wanted to go past his defence. I am talking about the" change of pace dribble" where the dribbler carrys the ball during a straight forward dribble(not a cross -over or a 360 turn) and beats the defence as a result of this illegal action. I ended up selected to work the final of that tournament(the equivalent of a State AAA final) and called the player the first time he made the illegal dribble. Guess what ?- he didn't even attempt it for the rest of the game. Does that tell you something??? Don't be afraid to discuss this and forget 3 secs- it's not that important!! Pistol |
I agree that the carry rule is not necessarily a "no brainer". Sometimes it's blatent, and those are the easy ones. But the "hesitation dribble" or the crossover or the dribble that goes all the way around the back are often tougher to judge as to whether the ball came to rest in the dribbler's hand.
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I once called carrying on the same player 4 times in the first half of a college game. The coach asked my partner what I was doing. My partner said, "They sent out a letter to crack down on the carrying. He [meaning me] is just the only one who read it." Not everyone will adjust. So if your whole board isn't on the same page, it will just cause you grief. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be called (obviously, since I called it 4 times in a half). But if you are strict about it, you'll get grief, b/c a lot of your brother officials are weak on that call. Chuck |
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