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ranjo Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:31am

Personal Posession Keeper
 
I have in recent years always switched the spare whistle in my pocket to keep track of the posession arrow. In some of the camps I have attended, this practice was looked down on as something only a rookie would do. I thanked the advisors for the advice, and have continued to do it. I do try to change it without drawing attention to what I am doing. Other than a little extra wear on my pants pockets, it has worked well for me.

I know some of you big dawg's claim to keep to keep the arrow in your heads, but my brain tends to loose track after the 7th or 8th held ball in a girls game.

How many others of you use this or another system to keep track of the arrow? Do you think its not professional?

Terrapins Fan Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:37am

Book keepers and scorers
 
Why not let the table do their job? I don't keep it. It's the tables job, the book keepers and rarely do they get it wrong in my experiences. I do keep track that the arrow has been turned properly.

But do do mostly high school ball, I will do my first middle school game, of this year, next week.

stewcall Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranjo
I have in recent years always switched the spare whistle in my pocket to keep track of the posession arrow. In some of the camps I have attended, this practice was looked down on as something only a rookie would do. I thanked the advisors for the advice, and have continued to do it. I do try to change it without drawing attention to what I am doing. Other than a little extra wear on my pants pockets, it has worked well for me.

I know some of you big dawg's claim to keep to keep the arrow in your heads, but my brain tends to loose track after the 7th or 8th held ball in a girls game.

How many others of you use this or another system to keep track of the arrow? Do you think its not professional?

Rec Leagues and Middle school- be prepared to keep track of the arrow.
Penny, Whistle or whatever.... otherwise leave it to the table-- make sure it is pointed correctly after the initial tap and the beginning of each quarter
Stew in VA

mj Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranjo
I have in recent years always switched the spare whistle in my pocket to keep track of the posession arrow. In some of the camps I have attended, this practice was looked down on as something only a rookie would do. I thanked the advisors for the advice, and have continued to do it. I do try to change it without drawing attention to what I am doing. Other than a little extra wear on my pants pockets, it has worked well for me.

I know some of you big dawg's claim to keep to keep the arrow in your heads, but my brain tends to loose track after the 7th or 8th held ball in a girls game.

How many others of you use this or another system to keep track of the arrow? Do you think its not professional?

For some reason this is a pet peeve of mine. I will never claim to big a "big dawg" but when I see someone digging in their pocket every a/p situation it drives me nuts. I don't remember it in my head either unless we had one in the last couple of minutes. The table has 2 people that should be keeping track of this.

I just make sure that it is switched after the proper team inbounds the ball.

tomegun Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:55am

I think keeping track of the arrow comes with experience and if you want to do it. Work on it just like anything else and it will come. IMO, this sort of goes hand in hand with play recall. The ability to recall plays will help a great deal and when you can recall plays you can recall jump ball situations and know who should get the ball.

Raymond Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun
I think keeping track of the arrow comes with experience and if you want to do it. Work on it just like anything else and it will come. IMO, this sort of goes hand in hand with play recall. The ability to recall plays will help a great deal and when you can recall plays you can recall jump ball situations and know who should get the ball.

I agree. I used to do the spare whistle thing but I would end up forgetting to switch my whistle and it became cumbersome. Now I just keep track in my head as best as possible and if a situation comes up I'm usually able to think back and recall the last AP situation.

Biggest thing though is the ability to recall certain plays when the need arises.

ranjo Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan
Why not let the table do their job? I don't keep it. It's the tables job, the book keepers and rarely do they get it wrong in my experiences. I do keep track that the arrow has been turned properly.

But do do mostly high school ball, I will do my first middle school game, of this year, next week.

Part of my job is to be sure the table is doing their job correctly. I watch the clock to see if it starts and stops properly, I check the book and make sure the home and visitors agree on score,time-outs, and individual fouls, and I keep check on the posession arrow because I know they don't always do their job.

JugglingReferee Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranjo
I have in recent years always switched the spare whistle in my pocket to keep track of the posession arrow. In some of the camps I have attended, this practice was looked down on as something only a rookie would do. I thanked the advisors for the advice, and have continued to do it. I do try to change it without drawing attention to what I am doing. Other than a little extra wear on my pants pockets, it has worked well for me.

I know some of you big dawg's claim to keep to keep the arrow in your heads, but my brain tends to loose track after the 7th or 8th held ball in a girls game.

How many others of you use this or another system to keep track of the arrow? Do you think its not professional?

I use this exact mechanic. It is now worked into my game and it works very well. I switch it before the throw-in at quarter time, and after the ball is inbounded other times.

I'm not looking to "climb the ranks" the way that other people are. I don't care to do conference-panel assignments such as D1-D3. If it's necessary to work into your game the arrow 100% of the time, get practising!

Since I'm happy doing the games I do, its look of professionalism doesn't matter to me.

Jimgolf Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:12pm

Someone posted a good suggestion a while back to keep track of next possession. When you're doing any counting, instead of saying "One Missisippi, Two Mississippi", say, "One Red Possession, Two Red Possession", or something along those lines.

As someone who has worked the table frequently, if you're relying on them, you are an optimist. They may forget to change the indicator after the start of a period, and are often unclear on which direction to point the arrow after a violation during the initial jump ball. If you are going to rely on the table, I strongly advise you to have someone on the crew make sure they change the indicator appropriately.

LarryS Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:15pm

While I agree that it is the table's responsibility to keep the arrow, I have also been keeping it myself without the aid of a "physical" crutch. At the beginning of last season I was talking about this with a veteran and mentioned I was having trouble. He said something that caused a "Duh" moment. It went something like..."Dude, as an official you count a lot during the game. If red controls the tip, then when you count say 1 white ball...2 white ball...etc. When the arrow changes, change colors in your counts." I incorportated that into my game that night and have only had the arrow wrong once since then without looking at the table. When I started doing this, I would sneak a peak at the table during a dead ball to make sure I had it right.

FYI...during that time the arrow on the table agreed with my tracking on all but one occassion...and that was when my partner caught my error.

LarryS Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:16pm

Jim types faster than me...:(

ranjo Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun
I think keeping track of the arrow comes with experience and if you want to do it. Work on it just like anything else and it will come. IMO, this sort of goes hand in hand with play recall. The ability to recall plays will help a great deal and when you can recall plays you can recall jump ball situations and know who should get the ball.


GOOD ADVICE -
Its getting easier every season, but its not there 100% yet and I'm not getting any younger.

Ref-X Fri Jan 19, 2007 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
I agree. I used to do the spare whistle thing but I would end up forgetting to switch my whistle and it became cumbersome. Now I just keep track in my head as best as possible and if a situation comes up I'm usually able to think back and recall the last AP situation.

Biggest thing though is the ability to recall certain plays when the need arises.

I keep possession in my head also.
I was working a county tournament game about two years ago and an observer saw me using a rubber ban. He told I should work on keeping possession in my head.
After that I never used a rubber ban or any thing else again.

whistleone Fri Jan 19, 2007 02:40pm

I try to keep it in my head as much as possible but I use the button on my back left pocket as a backup. If the button is unbuttoned, the ball goes to the left of the table. If the button is buttoned, the ball goes to the right of the table.
Sure, it's a physical way to keep track but I feel it's a lot less obvious than switching something between your pockets.

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 19, 2007 04:09pm

I shift Wilbur from side to side in my pants to keep track of the arrow.

Works for me.

Hartsy Fri Jan 19, 2007 04:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref-X
I keep possession in my head also.
I was working a county tournament game about two years ago and an observer saw me using a rubber ban. He told I should work on keeping possession in my head.
After that I never used a rubber ban or any thing else again.

I agree with the observer if this rubber "ban" was worn on your wrist, or if it were switched from pocket to pocket.

I lean toward letting the table crew do the job, with a "trust but verify" clause.

BEAREF Fri Jan 19, 2007 04:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
I shift Wilbur from side to side in my pants to keep track of the arrow.

Works for me.

I've never tried this method....I'll try it tonight in my brand new pleated pants!

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 19, 2007 04:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEAREF
I've never tried this method....I'll try it tonight in my brand new pleated pants!

I learned it at the Ron Jeremy Basketball Officiating camp last summer.

I heartily recommend it.

Heartily, I tell ya!

CaliOne Fri Jan 19, 2007 05:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mj
For some reason this is a pet peeve of mine. I will never claim to big a "big dawg" but when I see someone digging in their pocket every a/p situation it drives me nuts. I don't remember it in my head either unless we had one in the last couple of minutes. The table has 2 people that should be keeping track of this.

I just make sure that it is switched after the proper team inbounds the ball.

My personal favorite is the rubber band on left or right wrist. My problem would be, trying to rembmer which team is which hand....

Rusty Gilbert Fri Jan 19, 2007 06:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliOne
My personal favorite is the rubber band on left or right wrist. My problem would be, trying to rembmer which team is which hand....

I use a small, flesh-colored rubber band on my index finger. I bought a bag of the rubber bands at an office supply store, and go through about 5-10 rubber bands each season. (Either get lost or break from the wear.)

When the arrow should go to the team in white jersey, the rubber band goes on my right hand's index finger (white - right).

When the arrow goes to the other team, then the rubber band goes on my left hand's index finger (all others - left).

In those rare instances when no one wears a white or a real light-colored jersey, then someone usually is red. (red - right)

Been doing this for many years. You never would notice it. I move it after the A-P throw-in ends and use that moment to check the table for its change of the arrow.

When a held-ball situation occurs, a brief "thumbing" of the index fingers tells me which team has the arrow.

Interestingly, I went without this for the first time 2 weeks ago (changed whistles just before the game; I keep the rubber band on the whistle and lanyard between games). Missed it greatly!

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 19, 2007 06:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliOne
My personal favorite is the rubber band on left or right wrist. My problem would be, trying to rembmer which team is which hand....

It's illegal for players to wear rubber bands, and we would never allow them to do so. Why would you wear something then that has already been specifically banned by the NFHS?

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 19, 2007 06:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Gilbert
I use a small, flesh-colored rubber band on my index finger.

Would you let a player wear one of those?

Camron Rust Fri Jan 19, 2007 06:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
It's illegal for players to wear rubber bands, and we would never allow them to do so. Why would you wear something then that has already been specifically banned by the NFHS?

While I don't think we should be using a rubber band to keep track of the arrow, the equipment/uniform requirements for players simply don't apply to officials. If they did, we wouldn't be able to wear a lanyard for our whistles since that is akin to a necklace. The safety issues that affect players are not relevant to officials. The issue of the rubber band relates to a player slapping at a ball and getting their finger caught in another player's rubber band. I don't know of ANY legitimate situation where a player will be slapping at the ball when it is in or near a referee's hands.

It merely comes down to what looks professional.

WhistlesAndStripes Fri Jan 19, 2007 07:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
It's illegal for players to wear rubber bands, and we would never allow them to do so. Why would you wear something then that has already been specifically banned by the NFHS?

How many guys do you ref with that wear wedding bands while they ref?

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 19, 2007 08:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes
How many guys do you ref with that wear wedding bands while they ref?

Most of the married officials do. Hardly any of the single officials.

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 19, 2007 08:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust
The safety issues that affect players are not relevant to officials. The issue of the rubber band relates to a player slapping at a ball and getting their finger caught in another player's rubber band. I don't know of ANY legitimate situation where a player will be slapping at the ball when it is in or near a referee's hands.

It merely comes down to what looks professional.

Camron, does your association allow their officials to wear rubber bands on their wrists? Watches too under the same reasoning that jewelry isn't relevant to officials either?

Camron Rust Sat Jan 20, 2007 04:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Camron, does your association allow their officials to wear rubber bands on their wrists? Watches too under the same reasoning that jewelry isn't relevant to officials either?

While it is not viewed professionally and it is suggested that the official not wear a watch or large rings, it is not because players can't wear them. It's simply because that is the expected uniform for the officials.

As far as rubber bands go, I don't know that it has ever been mentioned. I think I've seen some people with them.

Again, just because it is frowned upon and usually not done does not mean that the reason is the rules governing players.

Rich Sat Jan 20, 2007 04:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Would you let a player wear one of those?

Would you let a player wear a wedding ring? Huh, wouldja? :D

Jurassic Referee Sat Jan 20, 2007 07:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
Would you let a player wear a wedding ring? Huh, wouldja? :D

No. That's the <b>only</b> thing that players aren't allowed to wear that our association lets our officials wear. No earrings, rubber bands, watches, etc. Anything that the FED doesn't allow, we don't allow.

You've been all over, Rich. What's the norm in the different areas that you've officiated in?

Jurassic Referee Sat Jan 20, 2007 07:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Again, just because it is frowned upon and usually not done does not mean that the reason is the rules governing players.

What is the reason then?

Camron Rust Sun Jan 21, 2007 03:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
What is the reason then?

You got me. But the fact that we don't require that the officials match all the uniform rules of players is a clear indication that the rules that apply to players is not the source.

Mountaineer Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
I shift Wilbur from side to side in my pants to keep track of the arrow.

Works for me.

Maybe you should put the rubber band on Wilbur. . .

I have used the pocket method in the past - putting my whistle in the pocket of the direction we are to go when I face the table. I have, in recent years, thought it was a bit strange looking. I keep it in my head (lots of space in there) as I also keep track of team fouls and timeouts there. It's not something I trust the table to keep track of - because they screw it up regularly.

mplagrow Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:35pm

I had an 8th grade game where a parent filled in on the clock because someone didn't show up. She thought the possession arrow was supposed to point in the direction of the team that presently had possession (so everybody knew which team had the ball, of course)! She was so busy tracking possession she was having a hard time keeping track of everything else!:D

JRutledge Sun Jan 21, 2007 01:06pm

I am coming to this discussion rather late, but in my opinion you have to keep it in your head anyway. You have to remember to move any device anyway. You should be able to mentally talk to yourself to know who is getting the ball next anyway. I just think it looks awful to be digging in and out of your pocket during the game. How can you justify wearing a rubber band and the players cannot wear one.

Peace

Rich Sun Jan 21, 2007 01:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
No. That's the <b>only</b> thing that players aren't allowed to wear that our association lets our officials wear. No earrings, rubber bands, watches, etc. Anything that the FED doesn't allow, we don't allow.

You've been all over, Rich. What's the norm in the different areas that you've officiated in?

I don't even wear my wedding ring on the court. The norm is wedding rings only. I've seen lower level guys wearing a watch and the first thing I'll ask them when I see them is, "What time is it?"


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