Sold down the road
 

I was working 8th grade girls tonight, and my partner (I'll call him Smitty) was apparently chummy with everyone in the school. He had coached the boys team, and all the boys were in the stands. I was lead on a fast break, and the defender was side by side with the dribbler. The dribbler pulled up short of the basket and travelled. I called the travel, and the coach goes nuts--you know, "How is that not a foul," etc. Then he comes out with this one: "Look at Smitty! He's laughing because he knows she got fouled!"

I didn't look at Smitty (he was too far down the court for me to bother with, as hustle is not his strong suit). I put the ball in play, and at the end of the quarter, I asked him why he was laughing. "Oh, she was pushed. The girl had a hand in her back." All the boys in the stands are yelling, "Hey Smitty, why were you laughing?" So he went over to shoot the breeze with them.

I hate how that comes off looking to a visiting coach. I know I'd encounter less of this if I focused more on high school ball, but I enjoy the grade schoolers, and I guess it comes with the territory (sigh).

the lower the level and the less important the game the less i think about it after

You should have asked him why HE didn't call the foul if he saw her being pushed.

Nice of Smitty to not call the foul and bail you out, but then, helping his partner was never Smitty's strength.

But apparently watching his partner's area from a distance is. As well as his distance vision. ;)

Mention this to your Scheduling Secretary?

We have a policy of staying away from very familiar surroundings and schools a referee has some sort of relationship with.

I would probably do something to embarass Smitty.

So you are going to be just like Smitty...two wrongs make a right?

I would just make sure I never work with Smitty again. I would make sure all of my friends know why too at the Association meetings. He throws me under the bus at a game? I have no qualms throwing him under the bus at an association meeting. This is with the caveat that this story is extreme. I have never worked with anyone that bad.

Wow that statement kind of sets me back. ALL games are important, ALL levels are important. With out 4 grade through 9 grade basketball there is no place for the kids to learn and develope which would make the precious JV and V games non exsistant.

Maybe i am just in a bad mood today but I can not believe any official would say any game is not important!:mad:

J carter, I agree. To the kids on the floor, regardless of age, that is the most important game of the day. I try to always remind myself of that even if I'm doing a 6th grade CYO game.

Announcing the arrival of the political correctness police.

I've never worked a 4th grade game with a band and the anthem played beforehand. I've never seen the freshman standings in the newspaper, either.

I never said anything about doing anything wrong. This is the type official who can be dealt with by doing the right thing boldly. That would probably embarass Smitty.


I thought Deecee just said he wouldn't think about the game much after it was over; did he say the game wasn't important?

Every level of ball is posted in our news paper. I just worked a game last week, 8th grade and the band was there and so where all the cheerleaders. Yes I will agree with you that JV and Varsity games as a community status are more publisized, and they are also more highly attended but they are no more important than any other level of game!

Do you ref for status or because you love the game?

and before you go off with the comments of oh, I must be a guy that has never worked the upper level, I have. In basketball, Varsity on down, in baseball, small college on down. Slow pitch softball, Major/AA on down to 5 and 6 year olds. So i have worked upper division in a few sports but i still preffer going to the roots, the youngsters!

Take it easy, this aint about anybody's schedule. Some games are more important than others, that's just the way it is.

When I was working youth rec leagues there would be times when less than half the team would show up, or come on time, or the coach would run in 2 minutes before game time and the first 5 kids that he saw were his starters. Or maybe he didn't show up at all and some parent got the job of sitting on the bench with the kiddies.

If these games aren't "important" enough for the entire team to show up for then why should I consider them "important"?

Dan,

Because to the kids on the floor (and in the end, that is who we are there to help), that game is THE MOST important game of the day. And they deserve us to do our best for them. Status shouldn't change the effort we put out to referee. Nothing frustrates me more than to go to a "lower status" game like a 7th grade girl's CYO game and see one referee never cross half court the whole game.

1. More often than not the Saturday morning rec league game isn't even the most important part of the day for the kids. It's part of their day.

2. No one is talking about putting out less effort at these lower level games. We're discussing this myth that *ANY* game is as *IMPORTANT* as any other game.

Maybe by three o'clock they're thinking about the PS3 game they are playing, but at 9:30 in the morning, its the most important thing to them. Man are you cynical.

Maybe that is because the person coaching that game ( who doesnt get paid for coaching ) may have had to take non paid time off work to run over and coach the game. Or parents that couldnt get off work to get thier kids to the game on time.

I have no problem with the statement of some games are more important than others, I had a problem with the statement of the lower the level the less concern.

But I guess this is an issue that there will always be disagreement on because of the different reason people officiate sports.

OK, so we can agree that while they are playing the game (assuming they show up) then at that particular time it's the most important thing to them. Or maybe they are thinking about their PS3 game during the 9:30 game.

Who knows.

Anyway, sounds like this myth has been busted.

http://www6.miami.edu/sharklab/image...mythbuster.jpg

I think you're right that these games are very important, and it's also true that they're unimportant. What matters in reffing is to keep the proper perspective. You do the best you can, and pay close attention to every game, regardless of the level. You give it your all while you're there. But there are many games that aren't worth fretting about afterward, and that goes for a lot of varsity and college games, too. Especially in the context of the OP, where it was the partner who was being the jerk, and not the post-er, fuming and stewing after the game is just not worth it. That doesn't mean the game wasn't important.

Jeez, all we need is for someone to say "it's all about the kids" while someone else hums Kumbaya.

Man you are cynical.

;)

I used to be like that, until I found out it wasn't worth it.

Two wrongs do not make a right .... but three lefts do! :D

Sounds like a good joke is in there somewhere...what do you call a depressed cynic with an alchohol problem?

A: ??? (Maybe you call him an ambulance? the coroner? who knows...I can't seem to get the energy to deal with this unimportant stuff...

thats what i said -- I never said the game WASN'T important i just said that to ME i dont think much about them after it is done.

and lets be real basketball is the least *ABOUT THE KIDS*

Its about the money, the sponsors, the kids personal coaches who are hoping that the kid makes it and remembers them, the parents who live through the kids, the coaches who are trying to move up, the school getting visibilty (by entering tournaments that the school should not be in).

All the kids are, are players on a team -- the sanctity of *basketball* ended with the first million dollar contract to put an athletes name on a shoe. Everytime i hear "It's all about the kids" I cringe.

Great show. Especially the episodes where something gets blown up.

Ignats75 and jcarter - you are correct, to a point. When we get out there for that Sat. morning 5th and 6th grade CYO game, there is still a level of professionalism that is expected. I will still run up and down the court. I will still call fouls and violations that fit that game. I will still put in the effort those kids deserve at that game. However, I will not be calling my partners 3 or 4 days in advance to verify time and location. I probably won't be checking the CYO website for updates on rules and procedures. During a TO, I may actually stand by the table and talk to the table crew about the weather.

I'm certainly not going to worry about what a coach in the CYO game tells me about my officiating. I will worry a little more about it after my HS game. I may worry even more when my college assignor tells me something negative. It's just the way it is. There really are "less important" games. If you are just starting out, this CYO game may be <B>your</B> most important game, as well as the kids'. Great; treat it as such. For some it's not. Again, that doesn't mean we give a half-a$$ effort while we're out there, but it does mean it really is treated differently.

Isn't that a bit like saying I like porn movies, especially the porn movies where they have sex?

:p

M&M,

I agree with you. I just don't like the attitude of blowing off the importance of the game. While I am on the court, its worth my total effort.

<font=font>:D

Then you agree with me (except for the myth part of course).

Welcome to the cynics club. Next week is your turn to bring the donuts and coffee to the meeting.

Yep, I agree with Ignats75. :D

I may miss the meeting; could you e-mail me my donut?

http://agitprop.typepad.com/photos/u...zed/donuts.jpg

Eat hearty. This ought to make it easier for you to work the baselines while I handle mid court.

is that krispy kreme

Geesh, if I eat all those, I'll be staying at that one baseline, while you handle the rest of the court.

Although, if it's a Sat. morning CYO game, I suppose I can do that... ;)

I never said it's not worth my total effort. When I worked kids rec ball, I gave it that, running up and down the court for as many games as I was scheduled. But the atmosphere was a lot looser and I made sure I didn't take anything or anyone too seriously. Most of the idiots that work rec ball that loaf and walk and don't work hard either don't know any better or simply don't care.

Now, do I stand at attention on the blocks during timeouts? Do I insist we long switch on EVERY foul? No.

My decision to stop working that ball had nothing to do with me thinking the games weren't worth my total effort. They just weren't worth my time anymore. I have a full time job where I travel out of town about 50%. I have a 2-year-old daughter who likes having daddy home and asks me every day if daddy's going to "play basketball"? And tonight's my fourth varsity game since Monday, so I'm sure the question's coming soon....

I work 40 basketball dates a year, give or take a few. I also work 100+ baseball games and 30+ football dates a calendar year, too. I stopped "loving" getting up early on a Saturday morning and working 4 games a long, long time ago. So now I don't.

I propose a 4-man crew. Two trails, two leads, no running. Maybe a couple of folding chairs.

Good idea.

What's the mechanic on taking your chair across the lane? Do you fold it first, or just carry it as is?

This brings up an question of ethics.

Coach of team A buys the 4 whistle crew a box of donuts and a box -o- joe. Should we refuse it? Or accept it but risk the temptation to 'repay' the favor at some critical point in the game...

You place chairs on each side. Better yet, just bounce/toss across the lane when necessary.

You also have to switch every 5 minutes so the trails get a chance to sit down.

Will you stop merging threads!!! I'm gonna get so confused I'm going to start quoting Old School, and then I will have to resign.

Nah, they have chairs in front of the table

The leads get to eat and drink while sitting on the folding chairs. The trails have to manufacture a whistle when they are hungry/thirsty/tired of standing. (Kinda like how the NCAA TV officials manufacture a cheap whistle JUST AFTER getting under the 16/12/8/4 minute media timeout marks. :) )

It may be a lower game but to those kids that is just as well as a NCAA championship game. IMO every game I do if I didn't do something correct It bothers me what ever the level of game it may be. I look at those lower level game a place to improve my skill and mechanics. In most cases those games is where I learn.

not to sound arrogant -- but i will -- generally you learn all you can up to a certain point at each level then you rely on the next to teach you more.

I have learned what i can from this level and the biggest thing I have learned is that I am done working them. just personal preference. The only youth games I do (younger than high school) is the AAU variety. And for the most part I treat these like a HS game.

Calling 50 travels and 3 second violations is great for a week or so. whats next -- well i got the held ball covered thanks to frosh/soph girls (big shout out for that) and I got the block/charge really covered with the boys side (just much quicker than the girls -- the block charge in a mens game IMO can be the most difficult call to make).

So I am not saying the game ISNT important -- I am saying in the grand scheme of things and all basketball games that the LOWER THE LEVEL = LESS IMPORTANT because A BOYS VARSITY GAME WILL NEVER BE ON THE SAME PAR AS A 7/8 GRADE GAME -- and I DONT CARE ABOUT THE KIDS SO THERE I SAID IT

Four-person crew? Worrying about when the folding chairs rotate? You guys are way overthinking this. You only need two officials and two folding chairs (and the folding chairs don't need to move ... at least not more than 14 feet). Everyone knows from where the "best looks" in the gym come. ;)

why even get the chairs just sit in the stands since the fans swear they see everything and have the best angles -- why bust your butt when you can relax

Because if we sit in the stands they'll want some of our donuts!

That's why

Did anyone play sports at this level? If you did can you tell me what you remember about the games? Do you remember anything about the teams and the coaches? I know I cannot. I do not remember anything other than when I kind of "kicked" a kid after I was knocked down during a loose ball. The only thing I remember is my Mom was in might direct line of eyesight and gave me a look as if he was going to kick my butt right there. I remember that look and I am in my 30s. I cannot tell you anything about the game or anything outside of the game. I do not even remember how old I was, but I do remember it was a game at the local YMCA.

My senior year we made the playoffs in football and I can tell you everything down to the pre-game rituals that were used before the game. I cannot even name any of the youth team’s names that I played on and I was in all kinds of sports as a kid.

The point is you need to keep these games in perspective. They might be important for an hour, after that the kids will move on to other things. So if you have a bad experience, keep what took place in total perspective to what these games really are. Importance is also very subjective. Maybe for some that only work these games these might be the most important part of your day. I have a life outside of officiating and working any game is only going to go so far with my life and how upset I get. The fact that these games are not my aspiration or where I work mostly, this would not keep me upset and worried for 10 minutes after a game. There are varsity games that I do not put the same value on as other games that might be monumental in my career (like the game I had last night).

Peace

some serious holes in your story -- is she or isnt she your mom? because I am confused

I am not arguing with you or anyone else on the subject anymore, But yes i do remember every team I played for, Baseball, basketball and football. I remember most of my coaches, little league, grade school and high school. I even remember some of the guys that officiated these games.

Do I remeber every game, no. I remember some of the bigger games.

I think one of the biggest honors I have every had in sports/officiating was being apart of renaming a local 110% award to an officials name that worked for me for severall years, he also umpired several of my little league games and high school games, and reffed some of my basketball games and then i got to present it to the first time award winner while this gentle was present.

What game did you do last night? Were you on ESPN?

I left off an "s" I do not know how you are going to recover. ;)

Peace

I was probably almost 100 miles in another direction.

Peace

I do not know what you accomplished in sports, but there was not big game at the JH and youth level of sports. Even the freshman ball I played I did not consider that big of a deal. I made a shot in a varsity game as a sophomore and I remember who we played and why we were in the game.


That sounds great and I am glad you are proud of that. But for many of us we do not want to work little league sports. I do not like those games because they do not have the same pressure or sense of accomplishment. They even have to pay more money in some cases to find officials to work those games in my area to be able to compete with HS sports or other events. We need to stop fooling ourselves with reality. When someone in my area posts an opportunity for someone to work a lower level game, officials find all kind of reasons not to work those games. When an opportunity to work a varsity or college game is send out, and then the assignor or official has to pick and choose who they are going to allow to work the game.

I did not get emails a couple of weeks ago because someone says me on TV asking me about a call because I was working a JH game. The point is to keep this incident in perspective. I would not lose sleep over what happen at one of these games. People will not let me sleep over a call I made during a TV Game of the Week that I did not ask to be on TV. Working JH ball is not the highlight of my career.

Peace

I'll speak for the other half (or maybe not quite half). I have reffed for 13 years, and done about 60-80 games a year. I started to ref JV and V basketball about 3 years ago, but I have not very actively pursued it. So most of my Friday nights are spent reffing 7th-8th grade games in the Lutheran schools. There are quite a few in our area and they have a very competitve league. Some of these kids will play in high school. Some won't. But when you have two schools from the same town playing a close game with a packed gym, it is important to them. When they play their tournaments at the end of the season, it's important to them.

I understand that some of you may not appreciate why I wouldn't want to "advance" to high school or college and be Mr. TV Game of the Week. I do it for the kids. I taught grades 6-8 for many years, and enjoy helping them learn and grow. I enjoy having the respect of the players and coaches of the schools I regularly ref.

I still read my rulebook. I still attend clinics when I can. I still belong to a good association. I still "advance" in officiating. I just choose to do it on a personal level.

This thread has gone so many directions, I can't remember the OP. (more coffee, time2ref???).

Oh yeah, how important are these games? Just a couple of thoughts:

When we start giving driver's licenses to 10 yr. olds, you can blame them for not showing up to the game on time.:rolleyes:

Important to all the kids? Maybe not. I had a youth game last year. I'll never forget when I heard the coach telling this little girl she was going to play the next quarter. With a frown on her face, she said "Do I have to"? :eek:

Folding chairs. How about those "hover-rounds". You know, the motorized carts? (equipped with baskets to carry the doughnuts). Also, If I spill my coffee on the floor, does the home team get the warning for providing the doughnuts, or the visiting team for NOT providing the doughnuts.:D :D :D

Oh YEAH!!!! Smitty. LOL. I think I've worked with Smitty before.