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-   -   Lag time on shot clock (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/30925-lag-time-shot-clock.html)

BayStateRef Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:57am
Lag time on shot clock
 
Massachusetts uses a 30-second shot clock. As the clock is winding down, ball is OOB on the lead's sideline, off the defense. Whistle blows, followed (maybe a second later) by the shot clock horn. Lead says he saw the shot clock when he blew the whistle and put 2 seconds back on the clock -- citing the new "lag time" rule. (The offense called time out and made a basket off the inbounds play.)

In the past, we would have ruled a shot clock violation...even though the whistle clearly blew before the shot clock horn sounded. I let my partner explain his decision to the coaches, but I am not sure we handled it properly -- because there is no specific rules guidance for lag time with the shot clock. In the locker room, he said he really was not sure how much time was left...only that he was certain the whistle sounded before the horn and he saw some time on the clock.

gazebra Tue Jan 16, 2007 06:23am
The lag time rule is gone now in Fed ball--we can put back what we see on the clock, and I will assume that includes the shot clock although not specifically stated in the book. If what he saw was 2 secs, he is entitled to put that back because of timer error. If he really wasn't sure (although you find that out later), maybe 1 sec because the whistle was clearly before the horn.

Nevadaref Tue Jan 16, 2007 06:28am
Since the NFHS does not provide rules for use of a shot clock, you need to consult your state association. I'm sure that MA has a play ruling on how to handle this. Additionally, you could always send a PM to "he-who-is-gone-but-not-forgotten" since he lives in MA and he will tell you what to do.

BktBallRef Tue Jan 16, 2007 07:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef
Massachusetts uses a 30-second shot clock. As the clock is winding down, ball is OOB on the lead's sideline, off the defense. Whistle blows, followed (maybe a second later) by the shot clock horn. Lead says he saw the shot clock when he blew the whistle and put 2 seconds back on the clock -- citing the new "lag time" rule. (The offense called time out and made a basket off the inbounds play.)

In the past, we would have ruled a shot clock violation...even though the whistle clearly blew before the shot clock horn sounded. I let my partner explain his decision to the coaches, but I am not sure we handled it properly -- because there is no specific rules guidance for lag time with the shot clock. In the locker room, he said he really was not sure how much time was left...only that he was certain the whistle sounded before the horn and he saw some time on the clock.
Since the NFHS doesn't have a shot clock rule, there is no way to handle it properly, unless Mass. has outlined such. You guys can just make it up as you go along. :)

BayStateRef Tue Jan 16, 2007 08:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
Since the NFHS doesn't have a shot clock rule, there is no way to handle it properly, unless Mass. has outlined such. You guys can just make it up as you go along. :)
Mass. does not offer much guidance. The shot clock "rules" come directly from the NCAA...except for full reset on kick ball. I was hoping there might be some who do college ball who know how this would be handled -- with a formal ruling. We made it up. When I asked my board interpreter...he said we were OK...but agreed there is nothing to back it up.

Raymond Tue Jan 16, 2007 08:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef
Mass. does not offer much guidance. The shot clock "rules" come directly from the NCAA...except for full reset on kick ball. I was hoping there might be some who do college ball who know how this would be handled -- with a formal ruling. We made it up. When I asked my board interpreter...he said we were OK...but agreed there is nothing to back it up.
NCAA rule 2-6:
Art. 6. When an obvious mistake by the shot-clock operator has occurred in failing to start, stop, set or reset the shot clock or when a shot clock has malfunctioned, the mistake or the malfunctioning problem may be corrected in the shot-clock period in which it occurred only when the official has definite information relative to the mistake or malfunctioning problem and the time involved. Any activity, after the mistake or malfunctioning problem has been discovered, shall be canceled, excluding a flagrant personal foul, flagrant technical foul, intentional personal foul, (men) intentional technical foul, indirect technical foul or direct technical foul.

Scrapper1 Tue Jan 16, 2007 08:47am
I don't have anything authoritative from MA, but I would think that NCAA 2-6-6 would cover that. It says that when an "obvious mistake" is made by the shot clock operator, the official can correct that mistake anytime during that shot clock period. The official must have definite knowledge of the time involved. There's no mention of any lag-time consideration.

I would say that you handled it correctly.

Oh man, BNR beat me to it!

Jurassic Referee Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Oh man, BNR beat me to it!
If Chuck Elias was still around, he woulda beaten both of you. The l'il feller was fast. Fast, I tell ya!

He really is missed. Especially when I wash my car. I used to use him for a loofah.

Dan_ref Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
If Chuck Elias was still around, he woulda beaten both of you. The l'il feller was fast. Fast, I tell ya!

He really is missed. Especially when I wash my car. I used to use him for a loofah.
Somehow I'm reminded of this little story:

A bear and a rabbit were taking a sh1t in the woods. The bear turned to the rabbit and asked,"do you have a problem with sh1t sticking to your fur"? And the rabbit responded "no". So the bear wiped his azz with the rabbit.


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