Best High School Basketball
 

Anyone have an opinion on this, either boys or girls? I never thought much about it until recently when I moved from Cleveland Ohio to Boise Idaho. What a drastic change. I went from refereeing guys who could dunk, who were thoroughbred athletes, to refereeing a bunch of clutch and grab slow guys who can hardly shoot. I have also refereed in Utah and would place them comfortably ahead of Idaho but still well below Ohio. I have a feeling Ohio is in the upper echelon. Anyone else seen a variety of states and have an opinion on where the different states/regions should be ranked? Anyone think their state is better than Ohio and some actually experience or other evidence to back them up?

as a corollary, the drop in referee associations from Cleveland to Boise was just as drastic. If someone in here is a Boisean, please do not take offense; just the reality of my experience.

I have called HS ball in Florida and Hawaii and the quality of play in the former, especially big-man play, is far superior. There is not much play above the rim here (HI). Guard play here is very good and the intensity of play here is excellent, but the overall quality is not up to FL. My association here is excellent, better than the two I belonged to in FL though they weren't bad.

Since there isn't a national high school championship (that I know of), I think the only way to get an unbiased verdict on this would be to track, from a certain time on, how many players from each state went on to play (start?) in the NCAA and/or NBA. But, then, you're only truly measuring what state is producing successful NCAA and/or NBA players, not necessarily excellent high school basketball players.

Anyone know of any such database?

I would probably say the Washington DC area, to include Northern Virginia, Maryland and the district, has the best basketball. If I began to name some of the players who are from this area I'm sure I would miss someone, but to name a few from the last couple of years:

Ty Lawson - UNC
Marcus ???? - UNC
Scottie Reynolds - Villanova
??? Cunningham - Villanova
Kevin Durant - Texas
Jeff Green - Georgetown
Roy Hibbard - Georgetown

I lived there, but I'm not originally from the area so I don't know all the guys in the past. People like Grant Hill, Danny Ferry, Lawrence Moten, Brian Westbrook, the Forte kid who played at UNC and many others have been coming out of the area for years. The Washington Catholic league is one of the premier leagues in the country and had two teams in the top 20 earlier this year (I don't know if they are still in standings) - DeMatha and St. John's. It was always fun to do a high school game with 8 D1 kids on a small high school court at once. My last high school game in DC was Oak Hill versus Montrose Christian. All 5 starters on Oak Hill were from DC and Montrose had Oak Hill's top scorer from the previous season (Durant).

I have also seen the level of play in Arizona, Nevada and Mississippi.

I wouldn't even conjecture about the rest of the country, but I know we have a very wide variety of ball here in Portland, Oregon. Some excellent teams, both boys and girls, and great play, and some of the usual.

I've heard things about Boise, though, and I can imagine you're really going through culture shock, both in terms of the play, and the reffing.

You really can't count Oak Hill in that mix - they recruit players from all over the country. I lived in the Baltimore area for 3 years . . . the greater DC/B'more area is good, but NY is good, Philly is good, FL is good, TX is good and CA is good too - WV seniors play OH seniors every year and the record is about 50-50 over the past 10-12 years so I certainly wouldn't count OH as a bastian of basketball. Huntington HS here in WV is among the top teams this year but that's a oddity in WV.

I agree with you and this is a hard question to answer. The only reason I mentioned Oak Hill is because of what you pointed out; they recruit from all over the country and during the 05-06 season all 5 starters were from the DC area. Their captain now is from the DC area - Nolan Smith - and will be at Duke next year.

Between DC and Baltimore, there may be 4 players that will make the McDonald's all American team.

I'm sure Oak Hill will finish #1 this year. I'd like to see Huntington play them. They beat DeMatha by 12 last week. OJ Mayo is incredible (could go NBA without the new rules) - with 3 other starters going D1 that's not a bad team either.

Possible Clue ... Top Boy's in 2006. Looks like Chesapeake and Ohio Valley areas win!

1) Greg Oden (7-0, 240, C) - Indianapolis, Indiana (Lawrence North HS)
2) Kevin Durant (6-9, 205, F) - Maryland (Montrose Christian)
3) Brandan Wright (6-9, 200, F) - Tennessee (Brentwood Academy)
4) Chase Budinger (6-7, 190, F) - Carlsbad, California (La Costa Canyon)
5) Wayne Ellington (6-4, 185, G) - Merion Station, Pennsylvania (Episcopal Academy)
6) Demond Carter (5-10, 165, PG) - Reserve Christian School (Reserve, LA)
7) Thaddeus Young (6-8, 205, F) - Memphis, Tennessee (Mitchell Road)
8) Paul Harris (6-4, 215, G) - Niagara Falls, New York (Niagara Falls)
9) Derrick Caracter (6-8, 275, F) - Elizabeth, New Jersey (St. Patrick's)
10) Vernon Macklin (6-10, 190, F) - Portsmouth, Virginia (I.C. Norcom)
11) Tywon Lawson (6-0, 180, G) - Forestville, Maryland (Oak Hill Academy)
12) Spencer Hawes (6-10, 220, C) - Seattle, Washington (Seattle Prep)
13) Jonathan Kreft (7-0, 240, PF) - Stoneman Douglas High School (Parkland, FL)
14) DeShawn Sims (6-7, 225, SF) - Pershing High School (Detroit, MI)
15) Duke Crews (6-7, 225, SF) - Bethel High School (Hampton, VA)

Am I missing something? I don't see Ohio listed on here at all . . .

The Ohio RIVER a.k.a. Ohio VALLEY. Generally covers PA, KY, TENN, Western VA, WV.

I have worked in Texas (DFW Metroplex, Houston, and Austin areas), North Carolina, Louisiana, and Oklahoma. I would take a DFW or Houston group anytime versus anyone. LOTS of athletes, runnin-and-gunnin. Of course, if you want to talk "fundamentals," I haven't seen anything come close to the Panhandle in Texas.

Kevin Durant is from Texas, not Maryland.

The top ten or twenty-five lists are not the best predictors of the level of talent in an area. These are usually freak athletes that have natural ablility and/or size far in excess of the rest of the players.

A better test of the talent levels in a region might be the number of D1 players that hail from the area. By example, in 2005-2006, over 200 D1 players were from New York City. There are probably an equal number from the rest of the Greater NY metropolitan area. I don't know the exact numbers for any other region, so I won't claim that they best basketball is in the NYC region. It's pretty good, though, especially in the NYC CHSAA and PSAL AA divisions.

Texas, Michigan, California, Florida, Illinois, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Ohio also produce a lot of D1 players. This is mostly a by-product of population; the more players you have, the more skilled the better players will be.

BTW, there actually is a HS "national championship" tournament sponsored by And1.

Here's an anecdotal story. A few years ago, my oldest daughter was an honorable mention all-state basketball player for a small private (and not very ocompetitive) high school. She was being recruited by some mid-major Div-1 schools (think MAC) and some Div 2 schools. Between her junior and senior year, her team went to UNC to a team camp. Her head coach noticed that there were a TON of teams from Ohio at this team camp so he asked the UNC head coach why there were so many Ohio teams at this camp. SHe indicated that they tried to get ALOT of Ohio teams to the camp, because the style of basketball they play there was closer to the way its played in college than in some other states. More physical and athletic. Her words, not mine.

Yeabut it's summer league team tournament style play. At least the regional contests are.

But they do call themselves "national championship".

I don't know where he is from, but K. Durant played HS ball at Montrose Christian in Rocville, MD...

Being a MD native, and a former player at DeMatha, I have always been a little biased thinking that MD was the best... I don't necessarily think they have the best players, but do think they have the best programs in a 45 miles radius... to name a few: DeMatha, Mt. St. Josephs, St. Johns Prospect Hall, Montrose Christian, Riverdale Baptist, Dunbar... the list goes on...

Just look at a few of the coaches that are or were in this area in the past 10 years... Morgan Wootten, Stu Vetter, Joe Gallagher... I doubt any two coaches in history have more wins than Wootten and Gallagher... over 2000 wins between the two... Morgan has 1200+ and less than around 200 losses... Joe has 800 - 900 wins.... These two are living legends of the game...

Then you have Stu who had Flint in the top 5 nationally, then St. John's Propect hall in the top 5, and now, his Montrose team is ranked nationally every year...

Boiseball,

I know what you mean about Boise. I moved from WA to Boise 9 years ago, and my small-school hs team would compete with any of the big-school teams in Boise. Also, the game and the officiating have gotten better since then, there are some younger refs now who are getting into the avocation that are pretty good. Also, about Ohio, I have a friend who is an NAIA coach in Montana, and used to be in Ohio, and he said that there are kids in Montana who go D1, who would have been NAIA in Ohio, since there are so many more good players.

Don't forget about Indiana. Always quality players coming from all over the state.

Durant began his high school career at National Christian, in Maryland. He played as a Junior at Oak Hill and after that season he "came home" to Montrose Christian in Maryland. I don't know where you got your information from, but he spent all but one year of high school ball in Maryland and as far as I know that is where is family is from. He plays college ball for Texas, but that is the only association with Texas I know of. He nearly went to college at UNC so those ties aren't too deep. A few years ago I was in the elevator with Rick Barnes at the Nike camp and (I forget the exact words) he is basically resigned to the fact that Durant could be one and done in college. His "people" were grooming him for the NBA before the rules changed which forced him to go to college. As a sophmore he was playing the point at 6'7".

I didn't say anything about Indiana because I would seem like a homer (I am).

Think of this squad, if Indiana could recruit in state :mad:

Sean May - UNC (would still be eligible)
Dominique James - Marquette(my third cousin)
Greg Oden - Ohio State
Mike Conley - Ohio State
Josh McRoberts - Duke
I think there was another kid from Indiana that used to play for Memphis and declared early.

I think in general most big cities will have some standout. If you are talking about individual player New York has always delivered some quality players. Though when you speak about teams as a whole DC metro and NY area has some strongest team in the country/
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps...r25.htm?csp=34 This link will show you half of the top 25 teams are Ny metro and Dc metro. Number speak for themselves.

You are absolutely correct. My bad. Durant is originally from Suitland, MD. I don't know where I got the impression he was from Dallas, but I'll have to reprogram that part of the brain.

Best high school basketball. I can jump in here because I have been involed to some degree in several states.

1) Indiana is the best due to atmoshphere - good players as well, but atmoshphere, coverage, hype and importance placed on it ranks it No. 1 in my book. Also, can add tradition ... It used to be greater before they went to a class system. Biggest mistake ever made by the IHSAA.

2) State of Washington. Very under-rated.

I have been in Las Vegas, Nevada, Iowa, Idaho, New Jersey, Maine.

None of these states even come close to Washington and Washington is a bit by the Hoosier state. Las Vegas is by far the worst in all aspects!

Why do you think so lowly of Las Vegas? Don't get me wrong, the DC area will blow Vegas away, but Vegas isn't terrible either. I don't know, when I go back (retire) maybe I will say the same thing. By the way, how much time did you spend in Vegas and when?

IHSA 100 Year Legends

Here is a website recognizing the all time greats in our state.

I do not know if Illinois is the best or not, but it damn close.

Current pros involve Dwayne Wade, Kevin Garnett, Eddie Curry, Michael Finley, Shaun Livingston, Quentin Richardson and Luther Head.

Current top college players like Jon Scheyer (Duke), Sherron Collins (Kansas), Julian Wright (Kansas) and Tony Freeman (Iowa). I could name more but that would take some time.

And of course you cannot go without naming Isiah Thomas, Jack Sikma and Quinn Buckner.

This is always an interesting debate, but if is very subjective. I just know a lot of great players come from this state and it is not completely unusual to see players at the HS level here that end up on TV at the next levels.

Peace

No excitement in the games. All games from frosh to varsity are all played consecutively in the two on-site gyms. Rarely do you see a band or more than just the friends and family members at a game. Atmoshphere is horrible. There is no community feel in Las Vegas - it has grown too fast.

Coaches are not very good as a whole. And the games refelct that. Just a horrible setting.

Damn, that sounds almost entirely like the Girl's basketball around here. :D

Sorry I could not resist.

Peace

Don't forget the greatest ever, George Mikan!

I will admit that each time I started to list a name, I would come up with someone else. It got to the point I just stopped and kept who I already listed.

Peace

Have you been in Vegas recently? I ask because I'm pretty sure I'm moving there before next b-ball season. I recall reading in Referee Magazine a couple years ago that there was a HUUUUGE shortage of officials in Vegas because it has grown soooo big, soooo fast. I wonder how many newer, minimally qualified varsity officials are there, and if that may contribute to the quality of play?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the quality of play here in Hawaii is average at best. Derek Low at Washington State is a very gifted player, and there is a local kid playing here at UH, but very few local kids play college basketball (as opposed to football where they excel). However, I enjoy calling games here because there is intensity in every game...the kids really play hard.

I can tell you this, I go to Vegas for a tournament and I tried to get some quality officials and I struggled. I asked all the guys I know if there was anyone new who they thought could do a good job at the tournament and they came up with zero! I'm doing the same thing this year and I haven't heard of any guys who are really good and new. Maybe my standards are too high, but if the guy in charge gives me a gym and I fly home (I will be there in about two years) a warm body just will not do.

Hey, that Durant kid is pretty good!

All right, i was wrong about Durant, but Kevin Garnett is not from Illinois. He played his senior year at Farragut Career Academy, but the rest of his life he was in South Carolina. In fact, he was Mr. Basketball in South Carolina his junior year.

BTW, Michael Jordan was born in Brooklyn, but I'm not going to claim him for New York.

I did not say where he was from. I only care that he played his senior season in one of the toughest leagues before he went to the NBA. He solidified his ability by playing in Chicago. He could have stayed in South Carolina but he did not. I was not born in Illinois, should I say I did not officiate in Illinois? ;)

Peace