Teaching Lessons?
 

Is it our job to teach lessons to young players? Example: Last night I had a girls varsity game. A is up by about 10. A1 puts in a lay-up and then points her finger in B1's face and says something. I let it go because I knew there was only about 2 seconds left in the game. After the game I was thinking about it. Should I have called a T for taunting? Our state says we must strictly enforce this. In a larger sense, though, my real question is this. I was thinking that I should have called it since she may do it again in another game in a tighter situation and I could have taught her that this is unacceptable. Is it our responsibility as officials to care about this? Should we consider that we can teach a player a lesson for a future game? Or is it simply our job to call the game. Should we at all care about teaching sportsmanship, courtesy, ets? Or should we leave this up to the coaches? Calling a taunting T here would have done nothing for the game, but should I have called it for the player's sake? I guess this is more of a philosophy question that anything else.

I don't mind talking young players through some things. Explaining why I had to call that violation, for example. But varsity players are not young, in basketball terms. I don't think you need to be explaining basic things to varsity players.

Yes, absolutely, without question, definitely T that crap, regardless of score, time, game situation or level of the game.

Irrelevant. T it because it's taunting. If that doesn't earn a T, I don't know what does. JMHO, of course. :o

Call the T and you are doing what you thought was important--teaching the player a lesson that she won't forget in another game.

I saw similar situation in a girls JV game last week. Two girls were getting a little agitated toward the end of the game. I didn't see what she actually did, but A1 got ejected for an unsporting act. So B1, being smug, turned around and wiggled her fingers goodbye at A1 and said "See Ya".
Tweet!! She was gone too!

T. I don't care how many seconds are left.

In 2004 NASO Sports Officiating held a summit on "The Official's Role in Improving Sportsmanship," which served as the basis for a book published in 2005 by Referee Enterprises, Inc. (the group that publishes Referee Magazine) with the same title as the summit.

The end conclusion of both the conference and the book is that officials do have a role to play in sportsmanship and should get involved.

I would suggest that you get a copy of this book.

I agree. I'm not sure that I'd personally eject on this one though, like PYRef did.

A general rule of thumb that I use in administering a "T" for behavior is answering the question, "Will this make the game better?". Will a "T" with 2 seconds left in a contest that is essentially over make the game better?

Yes, if it stops unsporting conduct.

Or do you disagree with that premise?

I wasn't calling this one, I was just a spectator.

I would say quit worrying so much about teaching a player something. I would say zero tolerance for taunting. If there is taunting that is in the gray area I wouldn't split hairs, but this situation seems like it was clearly taunting. Technical foul.

Thanks everyone. I now conclude I should have called the T. I also think it is necessary to call it because, in this game, it was a hard fought game. There was no rough play or any scuffles, but it was a back and forth game all the way. When this taunt happened it could have resulted in a retaliation by the other player. I would hate to have that happen and know I could have prevented a fight by simply calling a T. Also, it would have been the first T for this player so there would be no ejection (I would not have called this flagrant). I didn;\'t think about the retaliation possibility until later.

Musta misread it. Sorry 'bout that.

The horn will end the unsporting conduct in 2 seconds. If there is unsporting behavior going on, prolonging the game an additional 2 minutes to call a "T", report it, shoot 2 shots, administer the throw in, and finish the game will only allow for more things to possibly go on. Get this one over with.

Iow....it's just just another excuse to avoid calling a technical foul.

I take it that if someone tells you to FO with 2 seconds to go, or just after the horn, you feel that should be ignored too. Correct? After all, the horn ends the unsporting conduct. Gotta get it over with. :rolleyes:

Taunting should always be penalized no matter what the game situation. It does not belong in high school athletics.

Bravo!!!!!!!!

No. You are assuming somethings that I never said. Don't put words in my mouth or assume something. I explained to you why I thought it not best to call a Technical Foul in that situation. I have very few posts on this forum, and yet someone lumps me in with others who find "another reason to avoid calling a technical foul".

When the last time you were on the court as a player? The ending of a game that you know you are going to lose is agony. To prolong what is a frustrating time, in what may (or may not) have been a hotly contested game in which taunting is going on is asking for disaster. If it was an issue throughout the game, it should have been cleaned up earlier, but to wait and interrupt a running clock with 2 seconds left is not good game management.

If they don't taunt prior to this point, there's no way to clean it up before hand. When it happens, it has to be dealt with. I've been on the court on the losing end of games like this; it's generally scrub time anyway. That's not really relevant, though. If you don't deal with this kind of taunting late in the game, you've got more of a chance of an escalation that adding the time to report and administer a technical foul.

Isn't allowing taunting to happen as potentially dangerous to the game? Allowing a player to taunt is opening the door for a hard foul or worse, a fight. It must be penalized regardless of a game. Last year I got a great feedback from officials and coaches for a taunting T. I had a blow out, late (about a minute left). A player from the winning team made a tremendous block on a fast break. After the block he shook his head at the losing team's bench. I didn't hesistate to throw the T. Did it make the game longer? Absolutely. Were the losing players still frustrated? I assume so, but they knew I wasn't going to allow anyone to rub their noses in it. Taunting is never acceptable.

OK, I'll comment on something you did say then.

I disagree with your "game management" remark completely. Taunting is unsporting conduct. Refusing to penalize any unsporting conduct at any time during an official's jurisdiction by labelling it "good game management" is completely ludicrous imo. You penalize unsporting conduct when it occurs, without looking for an excuse not to do so.

Again, if a player tells you to FO with 2 seconds to go in a game, are you going to ignore that kind of unsporting behavior under the guise of "good game management" too?

It is good management for the next crew that has that team. By allowing taunting you send the player the message that taunting is OK.

Taunting does not belong in athletics at all.

I seem to remember you talking some trash the last time we played hoops. Mother Nature don't know no love Dawg! I guess one of the 3 other officials on the floor playing should have T'd you up.

Junker, if you're playing with your whistle, that might explain your jump shot.

Your comments couldn't be more contrary to what the NFHS wants its officials to do. This was the #1 Point of Emphasis a couple of years ago and probably will have to be again in a year or two because people such as yourself continue to refuse to address it properly. :(
2003-04 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

1.Sporting Behavior (Repeated from 2002-03, except shaded area)
The committee discussed specific, inappropriate situations that must be stopped immediately. Coaches must demonstrate leadership by immediately putting an end to these practices. Officials must be prepared to stop these unsporting acts and penalize the offending team(s).<O:p></O:p>
A. Taunting/Self-Promotion: Players are increasingly directing their celebratory actions toward opponents, which should be interpreted as taunting and baiting, and penalized accordingly.

I agree with the situation with one minute left. I also agree with cleaning up the taunting...but with 2 seconds left? Its very easy to get on an on-line forum and say you would make this call, but I doubt ANYONE on here blows his whistle and calls a "T" for this with 2 seconds left in a game.

I called a T for disagreeing with an official's call with well under a minute left in a game that the team was losing something like 85 - 29.

As to the OP, I wasn't there, I don't know what was said, I don't know what led to it, I don't know how obvious it was. I would address it, but that might be issuing a T or might be talking to the player and / or the coach.

I would and would have no qualms at all about it. I T'd a player for taunting late in a blow-out of a military intra-mural game. After the call the guy came up to me and said "but he's my next door neighbor, I was just joking with him!" I told him it didn't matter, I can't take the chance of a fight breaking out, save the trash talk for after the game.

I'd call that "T" with 2 seconds left. Every time.

Not one official here has agreed with your "game management" philosophy. The NFHS rulesmakers want taunting called without exception- from the start of the pre-game warm-up until the players leave the court. Doesn't that ...um....maybe tell you something?

Again, PAOfficial, do you ignore it also if a player tells you to FO with 2 seconds to go?

I'd call it with 2 seconds left, I'd call it with 0.2 seconds left and, if I were around to see it, I'd call it after the horn (if it was the player's 2nd T or if it was a flagrant act).

I've heard this many times in college intramurals, and it's the biggest BS excuse ever. There's no way I can know that before a situation starts, there's no way I can verify that claim once taunting occurs and even if you do know the player, you're still not allowed to taunt him.

Ditto. Taunting has to be taken care of. If I wouldn't do it in an actual game, I wouldn't post it.

I don't know Adam, I had your CMB JV and Freshmen boys last night and had to call eleventeen player control fouls on them because they all dribble with their head down. Maybe you need to move back to the big city and coach. Besides, these days I make much more money off my whistle than my jump shot. :D

Not exactly a basketball powerhouse, are we?

I would probably call the technical on instinct alone and not even worry about how much time is left. Zero tolerance on taunting!

Calling what I saw last night "basketball" was using the term loosely. I don't see your varsity this season. You evidently have some athletes around because the football team had an OK season. I just certainly didn't see them last night.