Unprofessional Comment ?
 

I had a rivarlty game that went sideways. Girls JV . Home team just destroyed the Visitors. We called 32 fouls in the second half. 25 of them on the Visitors. 4 players fouled out. 5 technicals, 1 on HC. Visitors were just slamming into people in the 2 half. I have had a player go on tilt but never a whole team. It was not pretty. Home team kept their heads about them even though it was obvious what was going on.

So lining up for a free throw, again, about 2 minutes left and I say in a calm and pretty quiet voice to ALL the players lined up. Though I really only needed to say it to the visitors. "Let's try and not go totally stupid these last couple of minutes."

My question is that comment of mine over the line or not ?

Did it work? I'm inclined to think that it depends on the delivery. Most importantly, did it work?

And, what was the reaction of the players. They might have understood what you were trying to say.

different situation for me last night, just a dirty girls varsity game......early in the first and they are just killing one another.

I told them before an inbounds play "Hey, clean it up, ok?"

didnt work, of course.

two nights ago after a little jump ball scuffle I was walking with the player and said "dont do anything stupid, keep yourself in the game....."

similiar comments, I think and I think they are plenty professional.

oh and I told a coach that I am "working my *** off" again, totally professional in my opinion.

Unprofessional? I don't know. Probably doesn;t sound PC. Out of line? No. I've used something similiar on several occasions.

Usually, it's been in football, especially in the playoffs. Things can get testy. I bring the winning team together and tell them, "Guys, they'll be at home next Friday while you're playing." Don't let them bait you into anything stupid that'll prevent you from doing that."

Sometimes you have to sound a little pissed off so kids will know you mean business.

Say what you want to say. Speak your mind, your in control of the game.
Not the fans,coaches, or players sittin' on the bench.

I don't toss this one around casually, but when a game gets just too rough, I like to say, "Guys, y'all will all run out of fouls before I will."

Substituting "foolish" for "stupid" might take some of the sting out of it.

No, an "Obvious bragpost" would be dropping experience when it's not really relevant. It was "obviously" relevant here.

As a general rule, I try not to use expressions that a kid might get a T for. [Dang. Those grammar rules makers again!]

ChessRef,
In my opinion you can find a better way to phrase what you desired to communicate to those players.

Orangeump,
If you knew anything about BktBallRef, you would understand how wrong your comment about him is.

I don't think you crossed the line at all. I don't have a problem with it. It was light and not addressed at either team - you probably would have gone NUTS if you couldn't have used some levity . . .

I have no problem with what you said. You were sending a message and as adults we have the right to send a message to younger people to keep order. You did not call anyone a name or use inappropriate language. The word "stupid" in itself is not a bad word.

I would also like to know did those comments work?

Peace

I have no problem with the statement because it addresses behavior, not personality. However.........

Words have meaning and some are more powerful than others...I have found through experience that "stupid" is a word that evokes powerful reactions. While deployed in the desert a couple years ago I officiated a lot of intramural games...in one, I told a guy (turned out to be a captain MD in the medical squadron) to stop the "stupid" play (he was frustrated and getting a little out of control). He got very angry that a referee had called him "stupid". I never did...I referred to his play, his behavior if you will. All he heard, however, was "stupid". Was my observation about his play correct? Absolutely. Was my choice of words in that emotional situation (and really, aren't sports at their very essence an emotional experience) the smartest? No, not at all.

For the last few years when play starts getting rough or potentially out of control, in a stern, directive voice I'll tell the players that this isn't a wrestling match, and instead remind them that we're playing basketball and they need to do just that. Works almost every time for me.

I've used something similar a time or four - once in a while it even works.;)

Could you have used another word or phrase? You know how some people react to some comments and miss-understood? did you get any slack for those comment yet.

Excellent point imo....

I have been using this phrase loud enough for all on the floor to hear.

"Alright everyone, here we go, lets keep everything legal out here!"

Then the ball is given to the inbounder or passed for the free throw attempt.

No Impact
 

The last 2 minutes of this game went pretty much how the previous 14 went. out of control and tweeting till the end. The Varsity evaluator thought the comments were unprofessional-but he didn't hear me say them . The coach of the out of control team mentioned them to him........

So I will proably NOT say that again.....

It has been my experience that most officers, for some reason, do turn "stupid" when participating in intra-mural basketball.

I try to use positive statements. SmokeEater had a good statement "Alright everyone, here we go, lets keep everything legal out here!" I use "Let's play smart" Both of these phrases tell the players what we want them to do. Not what we don't want them to do.
Many years ago I said "don't be stupid" to a player. He had a quick reply. "Hey, I'm not stupid. I have a high IQ." I had to laugh and then tell him to be smart.

I was working a boys JV game the other night and things started getting rough in a real tight game. My partner and I were both talking to them...trying to calm things down. While getting ready for a FT my partner said (loud enough for all to hear) "Gentlemen, we have tried to clean things up with our voice...we will now start using our whistle. If you don't want to watch the end of this game, you know what to do."

Worked like a charm...

I've never used the word "stupid" but have told players who looked like they were about to lose it "Stay smart...stay in the game."

I have used the word stupid before when talking to players. It really depends who you are talking to and how you deliver the line with the word. I would agree that not everyone can use this to their advantage. But when things are getting really hairy, I think you can use any word short of cursing to get a point across. Not all kids respond to "positive" talk. Some kids you have to get in their face and they will get the point across. Just know your audience and the situation.

Peace

I thought it was a stupid thing to say. Remember, we are suppose to be professionals, and also remember, silence can not be quoted. On the other hand, 25 fouls on one team, and they still are fouling hard. I'm not going to call that many fouls, on one team without mixing in a few intentional fouls. Your objective, which you attempted to address with your smart azz comment was to get them to stop fouling. I would have used a more direct approach. Quite fouling so much or the next one going to be intentional. If they are fouling b/c they are poor defensive players, that's one thing, but if these fouls are hard and unnecessary. I'm going to send some players to the bench permanently.

I'm laughing pretty hard right now; many, many years ago when I was a young captain I got thrown out of an intramural b-ball league...not just the game, but the whole league and put on double-secret probation for all other sports...for punching a senior master sergeant. Of course it was the official's fault;) :D :rolleyes:

Thank you for letting me know how smart I was not to volunteer my services as an intramural official while I was overseas. :D

Always a good choice ;) But I have to say officiating was one of the best parts of the deployment.

Even funnier, a few years ago I was playing military intramural flag football. I caught a high pass across the middle and some guy leveled me. I came up seeing red and looking for him. A guy on the other team told one of my teammates they should stop me because that was a major I was trying to fight. My teammate said don't worry about it, his teammate was a lieutenant colonel. Yeah, that was one of my prouder moments :o :rolleyes:

I thought about it while I was there, and if I go again I'll probably take my shirt and whistle just for kicks. That, and I work in Services, so I should be able to wrangle that duty if I wanted it.

I was at Al Udeid which was a piece-of-cake deployment. Good gym...I helped services put the intramural league together and organized/scheduled the officials. We actually had 12 different people call games...4-5 of us were experienced and we trained the rest. It sure made the time pass faster.

I was at the Deid in '05. You're right, it was really a nice deployment, and for me it was short (I had the last 2 months of the rotation). For my wife (my son was born a month before I came home) it was a bit longer. :)

Perhaps like some pastors in some church leagues? When I was in college, the most violent team in the intramural league was the professors from the -- get this -- Quaker seminary attached to the college. They finally were forced out of the league. One guy in particular, who was the Bible teacher, and one of the advisors for Conscientious Objectors, frequently fouled out in the first half. I didn't believe it back then, although I never watched him play. Now I'm quite sure it was true.

Yeah, I'm convinced it's much tougher on the family back home. I just worked my 10-12 hrs a day, called 2-3 games, drank my 3 beers, went to bed, and Groundhog Day'ed it 134 times :cool: I start terminal leave in May so I think my deployment days are over.

Yeah, it's weird how people in leadership roles can just come unhinged on the court/field. I'm very logical, laid-back, and in control--until I play sports, then I tend toward lunacy...I think averaged 5 (fouls, not points) in every basketball league I ever played in. Yet as an official I'm very un-emotional...it's one of the reasons I think that I'm a much better official than I ever was a player or coach...that and I'm a spaz :D

I'm very emotional in everyday life, and even more so as an official. I've also discovered a temper which I never knew I had. It's been very difficult as an old coot to learn to deal with all the unexpected lava and steam. I never played, and I'm still a spaz!

I think the fact that I played so many sports for so long with such (inexplicable?) emotional investment makes it easier for me to deal with goofy comments from coaches and benches...to me they're rarely a big deal and I just don't worry about them.

Oddly enough as a sports fan, I'm very detached...I've never understood wearing your favorite team's jersey or face painting or hysterics over whether your team wins or loses. Even when my daughters played HS ball, I was very detached in terms of being "fan"atical...I was much more interested in their team dynamics and how effectively they were coached. My ex-wife didn't appreciate my detachment (good times, good times :rolleyes:) but it never seemed to bother my kids.

I did my deployment at PSAB. We played our tournaments on an outdoor court with 1 ref (back in '98, way before I even thought about becoming an official) and 1 rim lower than the other.
Yeah, it's weird how people in leadership roles can just come unhinged on the court/field. I'm very logical, laid-back, and in control--until I play sports, then I tend toward lunacy...[/quote]

Sh!t, back in my last season of playing regularly before becoming an official I fouled out one game, then got T'd up by the ref (who was a regular for Saturday morning pick-up ball) who called every single foul against me , then I kicked a dent into the water fountain (which was witnessed by a CMSgt in Services). The ref was a younger dude (under 30) and I thought he didn't know what the f**k he was doing and I felt obligated to let him know. Well he and I became good friends after I started officiating, he PCS'd to the Midwest, and now he's on staff with the MVC and the Horizon (currently interrupted for overseas duty).

The dirtiest player I've played against around here is a former USAF officer who got out the service to pastor his own church. One of the nicest guys you'll ever meet in your life. But it's pure misery to play pick-up ball with him.

Ah, yes. The Fighting Quakers!!

It's pretty tough to AVERAGE five fouls when the MAXIMUM you can receive is five before being DQ'd in high school and college. :)

Of course, a lot of men's leagues allow 6. But still. . .

In my first year officiating, maybe the 10th game or so I ever called was a routine Air Force intramural game. The coach for one team, a major, was loud and obnoxious, but toward his own players so nothing to T or run him for. Mid-way 2nd half there was little kid playing with a toy car well off the court but the car got away from him and rolled onto the court. I saw it, blew my whistle to stop the play and looked over at the kid when I heard behind me a huge crash. Turns out the deranged coach grabbed the car and fired it into the stands. I was so stunned, as was everyone else in the gym, that I froze and didn't do anything...still far-and-away my single greatest regret as a sports official, though I chalk it up primarily to inexperience. In retrospect, I should have T'd, tossed him, and visited his commander first thing the next morning. I still get livid and embarrassed just thinking about it. :mad:

BTW, did you buy that water fountain? And there are a lot of good officials out there in the military...glad to hear your buddy is succeeding at a high level.

I didn't realized he had seen it until I went to his building for some Search & Recovery training a week later. He pulled me to the side and said something to the affect of "why did you kick my water fountain?" Luckily I didn't break it and the Chief was a former base team basketball coach who knew me from my playing days back in Germany, so he let me slide.