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Frankly, I haven't seen the call made often enough to consider any signal to be used "extensively" on this. Most players even try to keep a pivot foot, for crying out loud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I don't see the signal as ambiguous. It's for a designated spot violation. That's what the official's manual says, I believe (don't have it with me).

Not to be argumentative, but by your logic, then, there should be separate and distinct signals for each of the above listed violations, as well as all other violations. The signal discussed is for a throw-in/designated spot violation. You're suggesting that there be separate and different signals for different kinds of said violations. By that logic, there should be separate and different signals for different ways of violating any rule - i.e. different signals for travelling in every possible travelling violation: travelling by raising a knee after being on the ground, rolling over with the ball on the ground, dragging the pivot foot, taking an extra step after picking up the dribble, etc., etc. The same for all of the possible, different ways of violating out of bounds, illegal dribble, etc., etc.

I'm retired from the whistle, but still interested ,and also could be very wrong. But (c) doesn't seem like a designated spot violation to me. Which creates more ambiguity for someone who doesn't keep up like you guys. Why wouldn't you want a signal that specifies the violation better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse James

No it doesn't.

Whistle and point could mean:
a) moving off a designated spot
b) inbounder w/possession stepping over the line
c) offensive player close to the inbounder leaving the court

I've never seen signal #25 used for the thrower stepping over the line.

I've never heard of "offensive player close to the inbounder leaving the court."

The travel signal isn't used because it's NOT traveling. Be kind of stupid to use a signal for something it's not. I know, let's use the T for timeouts! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse James

No it doesn't.

Whistle and point could mean:
a) moving off a designated spot

Accompanied by an arm movement parallel to the line

Quote:

b) inbounder w/possession stepping over the line

accompanied by an arm movement perpendicular to the line

Quote:

c) offensive player close to the inbounder leaving the court

point at the spot where the player left the court and then a point at the player who left the court.

In all cases, accompanied by a verbal description.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse James

No it doesn't.

Whistle and point could mean:
a) moving off a designated spot
b) inbounder w/possession stepping over the line
c) offensive player close to the inbounder leaving the court

If you'd rather leave the approved signal ambiguous as to the specific violation, fine. I wouldn't.

Jesse, if you have a rulebook, please look at NFHS signal #25. If not, you can view the signal at http://www.nfhs.org/

The description under the signal says "free throw, <b>designated spot</b>, or other violation". You blow your whistle on any violation. You stop the clock with a raised, open hand as per signal #2. You then point from side-to-side as per signal #25. It's been that way since I can remember, and I go back to 1959.

There is no ambiguity with the correct signal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Accompanied by an arm movement parallel to the line

accompanied by an arm movement perpendicular to the line

point at the spot where the player left the court and then a point at the player who left the court.

In all cases, accompanied by a verbal description.

Thanks for clarifying the specifics, Bob. As I recall, I used to point in a) and b), and verbalize, but no arm movements...which I never thought differentiated anything (you coulda told me years ago!).
And the one time I've seen a violation during inbounding for a player going out of bounds rubbing off a screen this year, it was a quick point at the spot player went out and then signal going the other way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Dow

When I convered with my partner...

c-o-n-f-e-r-r-e-d.

FWIW, I think the most important reason to not use the travelling signal on a throw-in violation is so that fans and coaches won't start to think that the travelling rules are in effect during an inbounds play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Exactly. It's not traveling, you can't travel on a throw-in, so to use the traveling signal is all the more confusing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I've never seen signal #25 used for the thrower stepping over the line.

What signal do you use here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse James

What signal do you use here?

Stop the clock, point to the line, yell "Over", point the direction for the opponent, grab the ball, hand to the opponent, start a 5 count. I've never had any question about what happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse James

What signal do you use here?

I stop the clock, verbalize that the player stepped inbounds and point in the other direction.