Ready and waiting with the T
 

I don't know if this is a problem anyewhere else but I officiate with anther senior official who is a tecnical foul calling machine. I am in complete agreement with game management and support my crew always but this official averages a tech almost every game against a player, coach, or he may throw a fan out. Every coach knows him as a tech caller. How do you deal with this? I manage better then most because I am senior and can defuse most situation.

What level are you reffing at? A ref can't throw a fan out. That's up to game management. If you're working with him and can't control your choice of partners, not much you can do but get in, get done, get out.

By throwing a fan out I mean requesting that game management does it and this is at the high school V level. He is a good ref as far as calling the game. I think it is a social thing. I don't think he played well with others as a kid. Just kidding, he's a good guy, just hot tempered which can be a problem in this profession.

Don't deal with it.

Every official has a different level of tolerance. While you're second-guessing him for being too strict, he might also be second-guessing you for being too soft. The bottom line is that the coaches and players will adjust to <b>both</b> of you if they have any brains at all. As long as the game is kept under control and both teams are treated the same way, it shouldn't be a factor.

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You call your game and let him call his. If he has a quick whistle and is short on tolerance, the players, coaches, fans, etc will pick up and adjust. So can you. It just might be that the two of you will compliment one another.

Ask him about it. Be friendly, just ask his thoughts.

I tend to disagree. What do you say. "Hey Charlie, I notice you call a lot of T's on people. Why are you so uptight?" I'm sure there are more appropriate ways you could couch the question, but unless you are in a mentor/mentee situation, I wouldn't try it.

OK, I will try to work on reducing my T count. :D

No, take every situation and evaluate the reason why he gave a technical foul. After the next time you work with him (or now if you remember) come back and tell us a specific situation that happened.
I believe there aren't enough technical fouls called in high school games. Almost every place I've worked, there could be at least one legitimate reason to call a technical. I will be interested to hear what he is calling technicals for.

I agree that you have to talke to him about the situation and you may have to be stern with him.

If it bothers you so much that you posted it maybe it is time to look for a new partner.

Managing a game is one of the most important traits that an official needs to learn.

Can you give me an example of how you would do this since the OP said they are both senior officials? Just curious so I know how to be stern with someone when I feel like my opinion is the correct opinion and we are both senior officials.

My thinking: If he were truly throwing around unwarranted T's then the assignor would say something to him or the schools wouldn't be hiring him (whichever is the case where he works).

I agree with this. If the official has been around for a while, I'm sure word is out that they take care of business. Personally I'd rather work with someone that isn't afraid to enforce sportsmanship than someone who takes too much crap. Do his technicals and ejections make the games better?

I like to get a feel for how my partner will handle situations in pre-game. One thing I ask another senior official is "How will we handle difficult situations? Do we let them (coaches/players) vent a little or hit them right away, depending on what and how they say things. What kind of tolerance do you have for this? Just so we can be on same page to start tonight."

This way we both are thinking the same way. It has worked well for me and my partners. Of course there is always the exception! :eek:

I don't like having the would of, could of, should of, attitude after a game. If a player or coach crosses the line, take care of business. A "T" is just administering the rules. It's not personal. I can't say I have ever thought that a technical foul wasn't deserved when it was given. Just my opinion.

I agree that not enough T's are called. So far this week I have seen a thrown clipboard and a coach , standing at the division line , 5 feet into the court, yelling at a ref. The refs had nothing. They apparently were exercising their game management skills.....

Sadly, that's become the most-used excuse for someone who's trying to rationalize away their failure to control unsporting behavior. All it means is that the NFHS and NCAA will just issue the exact same POE and bulletin- again- pleading with officials to start calling this crap.

As a rookie, Im glad to hear the different perspectives on this. I've called a few techs this season, and have wondered about it.

One of my mentors told me early on that one of the hardest things for a rookie to learn is when to call the T. I haven't really had this problem much, with one exception, and began to wonder if I needed to learn when NOT to call it. ;)

Your comments and feedback helped me to think Im on the right track...

I believe a T should be called when warranted by the rules and to manage a game when unsportsmanlike activity is occuring. As far as a fan is concerned, that is for school management. The official is to point it out if he feels it needs to be addressed. I have a problem if the official gets personal about it and allows fans to get under their skin where they get into a verbal confrontation. The official I originally started this thread about constantly gets into these confrontations and warns the fan that if he hears one more word he will put them out. In one occasion he actually stood there and waited to see if the person said antoher word. He was the R on this game but I did pull him aside at the half and let him know we need to focus more on the game. I didn't hear the whole conversation but as I recall he was reperting a foul and the fan was continuosly saying "call it both ways" and " we know you are a homer". Do I consider this grounds for removal of the fan? In this case no, but if he was being beligerant maybe.

I can understand your problem with an official that gets into confrontations with fans. That shouldn't happen. They should be letting game management take care of fan problems. Now, if it's a weekend deal, or lower level where there really isn't game management I have no problem with the official tossing someone for calling them a homer, especially if it was directly in the official's face.

These are all HS games

My most regrettable play of the year: Not calling a T on a coach who slammed his clipboard in anger over a bad play by his player. (2-man)I'm lead, opposite table, on Coach A's end of the court. A1 makes some kind of horrible play. I hear, but don't see, an object slamming on the floor. The sound clearly came from Team A's bench. I immediately look over and see the coach picking up his clipboard.

My partner was trail, table-side. When he didn't blow his whistle I should have stepped and did the job.

Had a similar play and I did T the coach and he couldn't understand why I T'd him up because he was not complaining about a call just upset with his players. I explained it was unsportsmanlike even if he was not directing it at the officials. Same as if he was using foul language in the huddle that I and everyone else could hear.

I can see why you'd feel like you left one out there, but if you didn't actually see it, I don't know that you necessarily want to call it. I am 99.99999% sure a coach kicked a bench on me earlier this season, but I didn't see it, so I didn't call it. Calling a T for something you don't actually see could get you in some trouble.

Good call. I took some heat in a JV game this season from a coach because I whacked a player for slapping the floor with two hands after a steal. I think these acts are unsportsmanlike and need to be taken care of. The coach, suprisingly, disagreed. :)

Here's how I would ask him about it: "Charlie, what happened on that T?"...(listen to his explaination to understand what the real problem was - rather than what he may have perceived)..."Do you think there is anything we could have done as a crew to avoid the T?"...(listen some more)....then suggest a possible solution in the form of a question....i.e. "What do you think would have happened if we just administered the ball quickly? Do you think the coach would have moved a few steps back into the coaching box and started coaching his team?....

In this situation, you can't TELL someone they should have done something different, you have to SELL them....iow, they have to convince themselves (with a little help from you) that there is another solution.

It's just like throwing the ball against the wall after getting beat for a layup.

Can you explain how you go from a singular situation that one official determined was enough to earn a technical to living in France...no, really. Give me an example of a situation where the crew could do something to prevent a coach or player from earning a T. Right now, your scenario sounds nice, is well said, but smells a little like BS because players and coaches earn technical fouls on their own. Mistakes are made all the time, but that doesn't mean there should be a reaction worthy of a technical foul. So I don't see how a crew could do something to avoid a T just like a crew can't do something to keep little Johnny from turning the ball over.

Junker--
Please give more details of your T for the player slapping the floor.

Tomegun -- Keep in mind that using "we" is a lot less accusatory or confrontational than "you".

Here's a situation to illustrate my point......Team B coach (down 14-2 to start the game) signals TO after another 3pt shot by Team A. C grants the TO...and doesn't hear or see a full or :30 signal from Team B coach. After asking 3 times and getting no response, charges a full and instructs official scorer/timer to start clock. After :30 (during which Team B was standing on the floor in a huddle), Team B coach is done and his team is ready to play....Team A is seated on their bench. Team B coach is wondering why Team is not A, finds out he was charged w/ a full TO and starts yelling/complaining to C that he wanted a :30. C tries to explain, B coach continues to protest; finally C just walks away. As all players return to floor and we're ready to re-start the game, Coach B is 2-3 steps (not feet) out on the floor. Instead of administering throw-in, Trail runs over to coach and gets into a visibly heated discussion. Trail then "wacks" Coach B.....and there is 17:33 left in first half.

As the R, we talked about the Tech at halftime......(see my previous post: "what could WE have done differently as a crew to prevent the T?"). Here are my thoughts on what could/should have been done differently:
1) Just inbound the ball; get the game started. Either the coach moves off the flr. (everyone is fine then) OR he doesn't (when the ball reaches mid-court and he's still there - easy "whack" that everyone can see).
2) Wait an extra 5-10 seconds to see if his guys are standing (which means a :30 TO) or sitting on the bench (which means full TO) after asking for the TO; what's the harm in waiting a few extra seconds? That extra time would have avoided pissing off an already frustrated coach.

Instead of doing either option above, Trail jogged 25-30 feet over to the coach, started the confrontation, and then wacked him. Who knows, maybe the coach would have gotten a T anyway, but every single problem doesn't have to be dealt with by using a T. Not ALL contact is a foul and not ALL problems need to be addressed with a T.

I understand what you are saying, but I would probably just use, "What could have been done" instead. I think some things are wrong with your scenario (which is a good scenario):

1. I wouldn't ask three times.
2. Team A is seated, the coach didn't specify a 30, too bad so sad.
3. I would not put the ball in play and hope the coach moved off the floor. P U H L E A S E!

I agree with you about the confrontation. I would simply tell the coach why it was a full time out. The coach will learn sooner or later. I wouldn't jog over there and get into it with the coach. If the coach is making a spectacle of himself, the distance between the coach and officials will allow everyone in the gym to see it and the T will not surprise anyone.

1. I agree, ask once then its a full TO
2. I agree, nuff said
3. I really agree .....

What more can be said, I agree whole hearted.

Sure, A1 gets the ball stolen from B1. During the play, A1 ends up off balance and then on the floor with no contact. A1 slaps the floor with 2 hands and recieves a T. His coach tries to tell me he was frustrated with himself. I tell the coach that it doesn't matter, an outburst like that is unsporting. The game moves on without further incident.

Agree completely. Let a coach completely ignore you if you ask what kinda TO is wanted and not do anything about it? The coach is out on the floor yelling/complaining at you and you don't think that something should be done about it?

P U H L E A S E is freaking right!!:rolleyes:

I think we basically agree that there IS a good way to ask your partner about a T and what could have been done differently....With very few exceptions, you could always have done something different that probably would have avoided the T.

As for the situation I described, I don't think there is a big harm in waiting to find out what kind of TO a coach wants (it ultimately is not the most important infraction to penalize). I would prefer not to cause more problems, if I can help it, than the game will normally create.

As for the coach on the flr., he was really only giving my partner the "evil eye" or "death stare" prior to inbounding the ball. I felt like the situation was winding down and we would have had no problem if we just inbounded the ball. Instead, by going over to the coach, the "fire" was just re-ignited and thus the T was given (btw - the calling official said he gave the T because he asked the coach several times to move off the flr without any movement).

IMHO, too many T's are given to players/coaches because officials get too frustrated or too emotional too quickly. YES, T's should be given when they are deserved. A T is just like a common foul or violation - however most officials are still pretty "wound up" after the fact. We should be the calmest people in the arena during the game - afterwards is when we can get crazy w/ post-game refreshments...:)

That's a tough "T" IMO. I understand your point, but is it a one time incident or a habitual show of immaturity? I wouldn't go to the "T" personally unless the floor slap was accompanied by complaints of why there wasn't a foul or it happened more than once after a warning from me or my partner(s).

BTW would you have called a "T" on Steve Wojciechowski (I looked up the spelling;) ) every time he slapped the floor before a big defensive possesion?:D

It's just like throwing the ball, or slapping the backboard out of frustration. I know Junker doesn't just throw out Ts like candy at a parade (unless it's an AAU game), so I trust the slap was sufficiently strong and loud to earn the T.

In a varsity game I would have talked to the the kid and told him not to do it again. This was a freshman game if I remember correctly so I just went ahead and whacked him. I work a lot of varsity in the league so I try to get the sportsmanship point across to them when they're young so I don't have to take care of as much business at the varsity level.

Seems to me if you were going to call a T you would do it in the V game seeing that the kid should know better by now. Just my humble opinion. Your call

No we don't agree on this. During all my time on the court (as an official ;) ), I have never done anything to earn a T so I don't know what I could do differently to avoid a T. Someone does something to earn a T and either you give a T or you don't.

Maybe a good suggestion for you would be to mention this when you talk to the coaches before the game. Barring something unusual like players mixing it up on the way to the huddle, my actions are pretty routine for timeouts.

1. Stop play and grant the timeout.
2a. If known communicate what type of timeout it is so my partners are not standing there waiting for me.
2b. Ask the coach what type of timeout they want (once) and then communicate it to my partners.
3. Allow the players to make it to their bench and then report the timeout to the table.

It may sound sort of gruff here, but during the game my question for the coach will either be, "Coach" or "Coach, what do you want?"

I (really) just thought of something that might help this whole situation where I don't get to the end of the timeout and have a mix up. All of this occurs close to the middle of the court, with a loud and clear voice. If the coach didn't answer and he/she hears me report a full timeout, they will surely say something at that point. I think we, as officials, don't use our voices as much as we should. Is it normal for us to go through a day without talking or communicating with a whistle? No. So it would make sense to use our (outside) voice and communicate timeouts, subs, fouls at the table, etc.

I agree that they should know better by varsity which is why I won't warn them in a JV game. Nip it in the bud as Barney Fife and the guys that taught me to officiate say.

Oops, I meant to quote this post, not my own. Geez, I'm such an egomaniac, next thing you know I'll be talking about myself in the 3rd person.;)