The 3 versus 2 fallacies, a mini-rant
 

I am still in a state where we work most of our varsity games 2-person. Last night, matter of fact, was the first time we got 3 checks to work 3 person in a varsity game in Wisconsin in our three years of working games 3-person here.

It was a girls game. Evenly matched teams, but certainly not a huge amount of running. And this always gets brought out -- what do we need three for, heck we barely break a sweat in these games?

Why, oh why, is that relevant? Officiating is done best with the EYES, not with the legs. Why would we even use how much we need to run as criteria for working 3 over 2? And yet I hear this most often from OFFICIALS.

Clearly there are other fallacies at work, including the one where we'll "call more fouls" because we have more officials. Nonsense. I'm applying advantage/disadvantage just as stringently in a 3-person game as when I work 2. And we still hate unnecessary game interrupters in 3-person as much as 2-person.

But that's where we are where I live and why I work 10-15 games a year in Illinois where they work 3-person in all varsity games. And my little 3-person crew has been working 10-15 games and collecting only 2 checks for it every year, too. It makes for a better officiated game and frankly, I'd be happy to never work another 2-person game again.

Because my state won't mandate three (give the school districts 2 years to figure out the money and then mandate it), I never see us consistently working 3. And yet, the state managed to get a 5th football official consistently assigned for varsity games about 10 years ago.

End rant.

Rich,
I feel for you. I'm sorry that you are stuck with 2 except for a few games.

NV has had 3 officials for BV and GV regular season games for 10 years now. We also use it for regional and state tournament contests.

As for your thoughts:
1. Yes, being in better position, having better angles, and not being physically fatigued allow for better officiating.
2. I do believe that, at first, more fouls and violations are called with 3 officials. This is because more illegal activity is observed, especially off-ball. The teams will soon realize that this stuff is getting seen and knock it off. Then the number of calls will drop and the game will be an even cleaner one than with only 2 officials.

Amen to that Rich. We worked a 3-person boys game last night and it would've been suicide doing it 2-person. I am beat today and I can't imagine how I would feel had we not had the extra man.

The only good thing about 2-person in WI is that at least we are still assigned games as a crew.

Problem is, there are officials out there that would say that if you can't work these games just as well 2-man you don't belong on the games.

One more tonight. Fifth 3-person game in 4 days -- consolation game of a Christmas tourney. We're taking 2 checks for 3 officials. Third time this season, so tonight I'm the one working for free.

Thursday and Friday I was in IL working holiday tourneys and, of course, we got paid for 3. They wouldn't do it any other way. And they have the same "budget" issues any other state and their school districts have.

It's not a budget issue, I don't think. Most of the "southern" states use 3 man exclusively. I don't our school systems have anymore money than systems in northern states.

All varsity games are mandated by the NCHSAA to be officiated by a 3 person crew. Our local association uses 3 man crews for all JV games as well. How can you expect less experienced officials to learn the mechanics and move up if it's not offered to them?

However, we do some other things differently. We work a GV/BV doubleheader during regular season nights. I think other associations may work JVB/VB or JVG/VG. We receive $75 for the doubleheader. I believe the fee goes up to $85 next year. You guys may receive more based on working a single game times 2. But it maybe a compromise you have to reach to get 3 man full time.

I'm not really interested in working GV/BV or JV/V (I did the GV/BV thing when I lived in Tennessee and the games are played on different nights here) -- how do younger officials get trained then? How many officials would pace themselves knowing there's a varsity game right behind? And frankly, I'm already working enough 5PM games during baseball and football seasons.

But I would be willing to work for $40 a game for 2-3 years with the pay sliding up back to what we make now. Don't know how many officials would go for that. Nobody has ever asked us or tried this out, I don't think. Without the state stepping up and making it (forcing it to) happen, it's going to remain a patchwork. Some conferences will go 3 and some won't.

Hey Rich,
This is my first season straddling the IL/WI border. Amen to your thoughts.

I think a pay reduction is a good proposal. Perhaps suggest three for boys, remain at two for girls, with a climbing scale. Maybe the assignors could cut their percentage too. :D
The puzzler to me is why WI schools want to take the time to find refs for underclass games. It's my first area where that's the case. Making those games easier to assign could be part of the mix.

But then no one asks us.

This is the way NV did it. We currently receive $49.50 per official on a 3-person varsity game.


Edit: Sorry, I was off by 50 cents in our game fee.

For me, it all depends on the other official. One good one and I will take the 2-man crew. Two good ones and 3-man.

It's just one possibility.

As I said, JV officials work 3 man. There are plenty of veteran officials who work JV games.

I don't think much of that happens. When you take the floor, you either love what you do or you don't. If you do, you'll work hard.

[quote[And frankly, I'm already working enough 5PM games during baseball and football seasons.[/quote]

Varsity girls start at 6pm, followed by boys.

Sounds like that's basically what you're doing now, if you're working three man for two checks.

Somebody will have to take the lead and push for it, whether it's officials, schools or the state.

My guess is that girls coaches wouldn't go for this. I wouldn't even suggest it. To suggest that girls ball is somehow less than boys will get you in all sorts of hot water.

You lost me there. Not sure what you're saying.

Is this what you are getting for one varsity game? Does that mean that you get $98 for a GV/BV night? What about a V/JV night?

I am interested in hearing what officials are getting paid for two or three man crews.

I did not realize that many of you are working a single game. It has been standard practice here in NC for many years to work two games each night. As BBR stated earlier, most doubleheaders are GV/BV, or JVG/JVB, 3 whistles, and $75/$65 paychecks. Are there entire states that have single game refs, or just associations that do this? Do you prefer it, or would you prefer a doubleheader?

We are assigned by league commissioners and schools directly here. We are contracted for one varsity game that pays between $53 and $60 depending on the league.

Tony:

What he's saying is that the schools here hire ALL the underclass officials and also all their nonconference officials. The athletic directors spend a lot of time hiring officials here and the officials spend a lot of time soliciting games. It's something an official can't be shy about if he/she wants a good varsity schedule.

Most times the JV officials are local guys who work all the school's JV games. A lot of these guys have no desire to do more -- they live nearby and can be home by 7:30PM with $35-$40 in their pocket.

--Rich

Ah, okay! Not a good system, I agree.

I ran 3 years HS in FL working boys or girls JV/V doubleheaders with occasional tripleheaders one year (girls V between boys JV & V games) traveling 40-200 miles roundtrip for most games. I'm in my 3rd year calling HS in HI and here it's one game, V or JV, per night, with all schools in town within just a few miles radius from home. I'm getting older...I definitely prefer just one close-to-home game per night! And BTW, all V in both places is 3-man, JV in FL was 3-man, JV in HI is 2-man. Give me 3-man any day even if the pay is lower.

Also keep in mind that in two person, you are bound to call fouls that aren't really fouls, just because we didn't get as good a look as we would in 3 person, so this will offset some of the hidden fouls that 3rd official sees too.

Here we do a single varsity game on any given night. Most are two man with a few three man here and there. Most freshman and JV games are double headers. They went away from varsity double headers several years ago. All tourney games are three man.

I think a lot of it depends on the pay scale. In Iowa, you didn't make as much for the 2nd game as you did for the first if you did a double header. In subvarsity, for example, it was $35 for one game and $55 for two. I don't know what the pay was there for varsity, because it varied by school, and the only varsity games I did were double headers.
Here in Colorado, each game has its own pay. Therefore, schools that are close to the city I live it generally get a fresh set of refs for each game. Also, while most varsity games are three man, there are some schools we serve that for whatever reason get two officials. Colorado has set a minimum pay for officials, and it's different for 2 vs. 3 whistle. Varsity pays $44 for 3, and $52 for 2. In the JV game I did 3 man, they just wrote 3 checks totaling the standard pay for a 2 person game.

Yes and yes.

We get $42.50 for JV and $41 for Frosh, but those games are done with only 2 officials. So a JV/V double-header would be $91.50.

I've basically given you the pay scale in my state, but if really want more detail from other areas, then start a thread about game fees. It has been done in the past on this forum.

I've basically given you the pay scale in my state, but if really want more detail from other areas, then start a thread about game fees. It has been done in the past on this forum.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I will start a new thread, so if others will reply on the thread "Game Fees" I would appreciate it.

Selling the 3 man is a tough job, but really, something that the OFFICIALS need to take the lead in doing. We worked 3 man games for 2 man money for a couple of years while we got the hang of it. This year, when we presented the new contract reflecting appropriate rates for 3 officials, it was sticker shock for the schools. Their first response was, "We can't afford 3 man -- we'll take the 2 man price and have 2 officials for our games." Our association stood up and said that wasn't an option. There was a little negotiating that occurred, but we came out way ahead of what we were getting last year.

Great idea--use that association power and go on strike! They think WE suck, wait until they see the scabs! :p

Not entirely true. While the officials to whom the checks are issued will most likely receive a 1099 from the school district, proper documentation will allow these same officials to deduct the amount paid to the third guy.

That's part of the problem here -- we don't have centrally assigned games through an officials' association and many, many officials would be happy to work 2 for a few extra bucks. Many of the old-timers don't want to be bothered learning the system, too.

And don't get me started on assignors and pay-for-play at the high school level. I'd have to create another identity to rant and rave about that nonsense. I work 3 sports year-round and I'm not giving up a weekend of good baseball to work a camp to get 4-5 high school games 2 years from now.

And imaref, reporting is easy -- work all your games in the same 3-person crew and just have a different official work for free each game. My regular crew has already done 6 3-person games together and I've not gotten paid, in essence, twice.

Actually, it's not a big deal, really, since we don't get 1099s or W-2s -- just claim how much you actually worked for and if you have to pay someone out of your check, deduct it.

1099s should only come after $600 in earnings. I've only received a few since moving here 5 years ago -- all from the University system cause I work their college conference in baseball and hit the $600 threshold with them. None from high schools since I don't letter at any one particular school.

Hey B--
Schools find officials for their underclass games. Each official wanting to work must contact each school. The school calls when they have something open. One conference uses AssignByWeb. I asked one AD how much time is spent searching for refs: "Too much."
An underclass assignor as part of an agreement to go to three-man for varsity might be possible. Officials would have to unite and demand change, but I don't see that happening even though schools need us more than we need the work.

I realize the $600 thing. I'm just pointing out that someone who receives a full game fee and pays part of it to another official isn't required to pay the taxes on the part they paid someone else.

Rich-

I don't think three man is mandated in Illinois during the regular season, but is commonplace in northern illinois. I coach at Alden-Hebron HS and we only use 2 for Varsity games (we are working to get the AD to pay for a third). I believe that not having three officials consistently because when we get to regionals the game is called differently then our players are used to.

Rich-

Keep your head up. If even Iowa has made the move to 3 person for the post-season, there is still hope for Wisconsin. Iowa still played 6-on-6 girls' basketball until the mid-90s!

Btw, we get anywhere from $60-85 each for a V-DH or JV/V game with 3 officials. Three officials aren't mandatory during the regular season, but are encouraged. Most of the schools are open to the extra official and very few make us split 2 checks 3 ways. In the past, my crew has done that several times, but we knew the experience would be worth it when the Association and Union (yes, we have a boys' association and a girls' union) made the switch. Some schools are paying $80/per official with $25 mileage! I found one school paying $45/per for a V-DH and $30 in mileage. We won't be heading back there anytime soon.

I only work games in northern IL, so your perspective is a good one. Thanks.

Is the game called differently? That's something I wouldn't mind discussing at some point. I know we don't call more fouls, but we call more off-ball fouls and pass on some we'd probably be guessing at a bit more with 2-person.

Here in AZ we have been doing many of the Boys holiday tournaments 3 person. Our officials advisory board is pushing for it, so maybe we are making some head-way.

In Maryland it is normally one game a night. The area is divided up by counties (PG, Montgomery, Howard, etc.) PG county is three-man for varsity games and Montgomery county isn't. The Catholic leagues use three-man. The pay is normally $60 a game.

Down here in the great state of Mississippi, all varsity games are three-man and we have to do double-headers. The pay is...$60 for a double-header! I have come close to doing as many high school games this season as I did all of last season and January is going to be the busiest month! Fortunately, there are several opportunities for college nearby and I will be hitting the camps to expand in that area. I don't like doing two games and doing more college will solve that problem even though I can't complain about my college schedule this year since I'm new.

I worked two games a night when I lived in Tennessee and I have to admit, I like working one much better. It was hard to see the girls varsity game as anything but a preliminary game. You knew you'd have to run your backside off during the boys game (it was all 2-person back then).

In 1994 the pay in TN was $60 for a GV/BV DH.

I had the opposite experience with games available and with pay. The pay per game here is a bit higher than it was in Des Moines, but there aren't nearly as many games available. In DM, the big schools have Frosh, Soph, JV, and varsity for boys and girls. Most freshman have A and B teams. Here, the "big" schools have freshman (one team), JV, and Varsity. AAU is limited, and there is no YMCA. I had bigger crowds in some MS AAU games in DM than I see for some varsity games here. My first varsity game in Iowa was a small school outside DM, and it was packed (visitors brought quite a few). Here, the small school varsity game had plenty of seating left, and the visitors brought a couple dozen people at most. I'm lucky to get two games a week on average.

Basketball just isn't that big a deal here, not like in the midwest.

We get $55 per official for 3-person in northern VA. We work 3-person on all varsity games.

You must be referring to Ralph S. I've heard that's his modus operandi. I moved from the area 2 years ago but still keep in touch with friends, and from what I've heard, he probably won't be retained by the conference once their commitment is up. He's not fielding top crews.

Mregor