What would you do?
 

I am working a two man game. I am the 'L'. The ball is in the front court in 'T' primary. Visiting team is down by 1 point and with 25 seconds left to go in the game. The visiting team has the ball. The home team is in a tight 2-3 zone. The guard on the visiting team has a little defensive pressure on him. He is dribbling the ball and falls down, but continues to dribble the ball. He continues to dribble and gets up and continues to dribble. The 'T' calls a travel. Looking through the players I see everything. My partner is inexperienced. I go up to him and ask him can you travel while dribbling the ball. He says no. Then it hits him, he knows he made the wrong call. I told him I will let him change his call. The home coach is yelling that it is not a correctable error. I said he was right. It was an official's mistake and he is giving the ball back to the visiting team. The visting team wins by 1 point. The head coach thinks he got screwed on the traveling call. Anyway, afterwards at the local gas station we stop to get s drink before driving home. The visting team comes in and the visiting head coach. The visiting coach comes up to me and my partner and tells us that we showed a lots of integrity and guts for making the call right. Most guys would have let it gone he says. I thanked him for his comments. As we are getting into the car, parents of the home team tell us that we screwed their kids over. I have been told to make it right when it is wrong! I know we did the right thing.

- Fix the call
- Drive a little further than you did to stop for drinks

Yep, what Dan said.

You did the right thing. The home team coach and parents know that as well, they were only hoping they could be the beneficiaries of a wrong call.

And I also agree about the comment on driving a little farther down the road. You are less likely to run into anyone, win or lose. Better to avoid those situations, than tempt fate by stopping too close to the game site.

No, it’s not a correctable error. But that’s not relevant until the ball is put into play after the call.
Yes, you did the right thing. Good job getting the call right.

Good point about driving further, but we stop because the closest stop after that was 45 miles away.

did the right thing? where is the ball? what is your primary?

I dont change this call at gunpoint. then again I am looking somewhere else doing my job and trusting my partner, regardless of experience level.

It have better have been an obvious mistake. It is not just about integrity, it is also about judgment. You cannot correct every mistake made by officials. You have to let young officials make mistakes and they will. I know it sounds like the right thing, but what if you were wrong? Now you have made a bigger mistake.

BTW, do not listen to fans no matter where you go. You do not have to drive 10 miles away to get a drink at a gas station.

Peace

I don't agree with this. It's very possible that you're seeing the play out of the corner of your eye, or through traffic, as you're wathcing the traffic. When the P makes an obvious mistake, and you can quietly and respectfully give him an opportunity to fix his obvious mistake, you do it! Regardless of experience level.

You don't have to stop for drinks if you bring them from home.

The way I read the OP, the calling official himself realized the error. His partner's question lead him to realize that he misapplied the rule. Since the ball had not yet been put back into play, call it an inadvertant whistle & put ball back into play at POI. IMHO this is the right thing to do.

And if the local gas station is the only stop for miles, next time bring a couple extra bottles of soda & a snack.........getting caught up with the locals post game is almost never a good thing!

Great minds......

And impeccable timing! (look at the times on the posts)

it's starting to get a little eerie...

I think iref4him handled it beautifully.

Quite simply, if my partner so obviously misapplies a rule (such as calling a travel while the player is dribbling) in the closing seconds of a 1 point game and I know it, you can bet that we're going to deal with it right then and there....and I'd hope that if I had such goof up, I'd have partner with enough guts to do the right thing.

Forget about who's primary it was in. Our first priority is to call the game. Primaries and mechanics are just a guide to enable us to cover to floor most effectively most of the time. A call like this is far more of an outrage then helping out your partner by knowing what was going on outside your primary. I'm not talking about judgement situations, nor am I talking about overruling a partner....they get to change their call.

Iref..., (Nice name)
You did the right thing and did it well. Your peers do have a point about stopping for a Coke. I always leave a very small cooler with a Slim Fast in the back of my truck. That and bag of popcorn are usually my supper after a game. I had one good experience stopping for gas at a local Casey's store. I had to fly solo that night because of a no show. The home school lost --but they always do and all of the fans and parents expected them to so it was no big deal. But everyone was happy because a Special Needs kid from the other team got to play a lot, scored a basket, and sunk a free throw. I got lots of kudos from home town parents and kids but if I hadn't needed gas, I wouldn't have stopped in town. Only problem was there wasn't another town for a long ways! Just out of curiosity, were you wearing your uniform or had you changed?

Man, I don't know which way to lean on this one; both sides have good points. I just don't know if I would do that. Did the OP get some of his check?
I tell you one thing, I would bet a game check that no matter how it is fixed up the OP was ballwatching and doing it the whole game. I know it is a hard thing for some to admit, but it happens way more than people want to talk about.

Good or bad, I'm seeing too much stock put into what a fan or coach thinks. They have an emotional investment in their side winning the game so their opinion is biased and mostly worthless. PLUS, don't be afraid to stop and get something to eat or drink. Once you leave the gym you are a person that has a right to do what everyone else can. It is a confrontation that someone else would like to have with you. If you can't handle a confrontation, this is the wrong thing to be doing. Additionally, it will happen again if there is a possibility you will ever go back to that school. Are you going to avoid it forever?

I did a tourney a couple weeks ago that drew teams from several hours away in every direction. Afterward I drove the two hours home, showered and changed, and went out to get some gas. And who should I run into at the gas station than the winning team from my last game. :eek:

Aside from the sexual assault stuff, I guess the real point of this thread is:

How far would you go to save a game?

:D

http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=24021
http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=24058

So if this happens in the dual/trouble area and as the lead you see it do you help out then?

Iref did the right thing. Good call.

If I saw it, I do what was done in the OP. Go to my partner and ask him if it's possible to travel while dribbling. Let him change the call or stick with it.

Good call, Sparky.

Then you need to move further away. ;)

I agree with this tomegun here. I agree that in the OP it sounded like they got things right because this was a pretty obvious mistake. My problem is that if you are getting that far out of your area, are you getting a good look at what happened? Maybe there was something you didn't see? Maybe you thought you saw something that wasn't really there? Last night I worked a couple of smooth JV games with a relatively new official. He made one call in my area (I was L, he was T) and he was completely wrong. He called a foul on a shooter that just simply wasn't there. It was a good, clean block. I didn't say anything because judging by the look on his face as he called the foul, he knew he called a phantom, but my point is that it better be REALLY obvious to go change a partner's call from that far away.

Seems like a lot of people are assuming the official in the OP was ball watching and out of his area. It IS possible that there were few players in his primary and that they were spread out and not doing much....thus forcing him to work deep and use his peripheral vision to keep tabs on them. In that situation, it is possible to basically see the entire floor at L...therefore he would be able to see the obvious mistake.

Also, he didn't overrule his partner. He went and asked a question. If his partner had seen something different, all he had to do was stick with his call.

This situation is similar to seeing a player tip a pass and the ball go OOB. Your partner starts to give the ball to the other team...are you going to give him the information you have or say "Too bad guys, that's his line."?

I agree with what you're saying. From the OP they handled it well. I was just talking about getting out of your primary as a caution. It's not something you want to get in the habit of.

I should start a list; I have been around long enough to recognize how an official talks when they watch the ball or approve of watching the ball.

And this is important because.....

Why?

The coach was exactly right. This was not a correctable error.


It was an inadvertent whistle.

Visitors in team control at the time of the IW, they retain control for the throw in.

Tell that to the coach. By the time he figures out how he can be right and still not get the ball, the game will be over and you'll be out the door.

Larry S wrote --> Seems like a lot of people are assuming the official in the OP was ball watching and out of his area. It IS possible that there were few players in his primary and that they were spread out and not doing much....thus forcing him to work deep and use his peripheral vision to keep tabs on them. In that situation, it is possible to basically see the entire floor at L...therefore he would be able to see the obvious mistake.

Also, he didn't overrule his partner. He went and asked a question. If his partner had seen something different, all he had to do was stick with his call.

In fact the offensive team stood around the perimeter out side the 3point live while the defensive team stayed in a tight 2-3 zone. It just so happened that as I was looking through the players on defense --> (referee-ing the defense) and just happened to see the player dribble, then fall (continue his dribble), and then get up and continue his dribble. I was not going to overrule him..I just wanted to ask him if a player could travel while dribbling the ball. That's why I let him change his call and not me.

So I can look at the list and realize that some officials who post condone ball-watching. If they condone it, without exceptions like someone posted on another thread, IMO that means they are doing it. I don't need/want to hit my head against the wall and engage in conversation aimed at getting someone in denial to see the error of their ways. So I guess the answer to your question would be, it is important so I know who not to waste my time with. By the way, you wouldn't go on the list anyway! :p

Larry S wrote --> Seems like a lot of people are assuming the official in the OP was ball watching and out of his area. It IS possible that there were few players in his primary and that they were spread out and not doing much....thus forcing him to work deep and use his peripheral vision to keep tabs on them. In that situation, it is possible to basically see the entire floor at L...therefore he would be able to see the obvious mistake.

Also, he didn't overrule his partner. He went and asked a question. If his partner had seen something different, all he had to do was stick with his call.

In fact the offensive team stood around the perimeter out side the 3point live while the defensive team stayed in a tight 2-3 zone. It just so happened that as I was looking through the players on defense --> (referee-ing the defense) and just happened to see the player dribble, then fall (continue his dribble), and then get up and continue his dribble. I was not going to overrule him..I just wanted to ask him if a player could travel while dribbling the ball. That's why I let him change his call and not me. If he didn't change it, then I would have awarded the ball to the home team and have a long discussion on the way home.