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-   -   How much do you talk? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/30145-how-much-do-you-talk.html)

Rusty Gilbert Wed Dec 13, 2006 01:52pm
I'm a talker, but I hardly ever state "shooters number" when I have a foul. (Shooters number seems to find its way back to my lips and hands when I report to the table!)

I do get frustrated when it feels like a partner's primary communication mode resembles charades, or pictionary in the air, or some kind of "silent mouthing" that requires both lip reading and interpretation of hand/arm movements. This leaves me (and I assume most others) wondering about the call--especially what we do next!:confused:

As officials we have to take 100% of the responsibility for both giving and receiving information. We all know what "assuming" does for us.....

Raymond Wed Dec 13, 2006 02:16pm
On common violations like travelling, palming, or double dribble my communication consists of a loud whistle w/open hand, clearly pointing the direction of the subsequent play and clearly pointing to the throw-in spot.

However with fouls I immediately verbally communicate to my parter(s) the location of the throw-in or the number of free throws. If free throws are involved I make sure of some sort of communication (verbal or non-verbal) with my partner(s) indicating we are aware of the correct shooter before I proceed to the table.

If a partner calls a T I try to verbally communicate to my partner the team shooting, basket, throw-in location before he reports to the table.

I communicate to my partner(s) when bonus goes into effect. If my partner calls a non-shooting foul during the bonus I immediately find and point to the shooter and raise the appropriate fingers to indicate shots to be taken.

I'm a big believer in effective communication among the crew.

tomegun Wed Dec 13, 2006 02:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Well I have heard an evaluator at a camp say "we" talked too much in camps. I have changed the way I communicate in the past few years and it works out a lot better. I do not feel like I have to defend or respond to many calls. I will mainly talk only when talked to or when I am standing right in front of them. Now I will make myself available at times, but I try my best to stay away from most conversation. I have learned that saying a couple words is much better than a couple of sentences in most situations. It also helps that I am seeing the same coaches over and over and they know what I can or cannot do. I do not have to explain a lot as much anymore.

Peace
I agree with you 100%, but I wasn't talking about communication with a coach.

I guess I wouldn't have a problem working with several members here. Unfortunately, that isn't the case where I live and it is sorely needed. Everytime one of my partners called time out last night, we were just standing there waiting to find out what we had. I'm new and my other partner is born and bread here. He was looking at me smiling and he could tell I wanted to know what the heck is going on. He just said, "That is what you get with some people." I was glad it wasn't just me that was frustrated with it.

Ignats75 Wed Dec 13, 2006 03:21pm
Fouls
 
I am particularly vocal with my partner on fouls. On fouls its a fist and then two fingers and a loud "Shooting two" or a fist and a point and "Blue on the baseline" for a non-shooting foul.

I too have had short term memory loss if I say the shooter's number out loud. I will, instead, point to the shooter and say "You are my shooter" on my way to the table.

btaylor64 Wed Dec 13, 2006 05:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
One of the most important parts of our game, as officials, should be communication. Working NCAA-W, they have constantly reminded us that we need to signal and verbalize between partners, and I've tried to incorporate a lot of these ideas into my HS game as well. For example, the proper procedure on a violation is, stop clock, signal, direction, throw-in spot. We are told to verbalize things with our partners, such as, "Throw-in spot is right here, Tom", as we leave to go to our new spot. If there's a TO, we should all know as a crew where the ball is to be put in play even before the TO is reported to the table. If my partner has a shooting foul, I will try to tell them, "I've got your shooter, Tom" before they go report to the table. Before we shoot FT's, all three members of the crew will signal whether it's 1, 2, or 3 shots, so there are no mis-understandings and corectable error situations. When I call a foul, I usually verbalize as well, "White, 23, 2 shots". This way my partners will know what's going on rather than looking at each other wondering while I wander to the table.

I tend to verbalize quite a bit during a game, mostly to communicate to my partners and the table. Of course, there's the occasional communication with a player, coach, cheerleader, etc....

Now don't be bringing in any of your college stuff to the HS game, people around here don't like that. Naughty, Naughty

refnrev Wed Dec 13, 2006 05:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
We were talking?
______________________________
I think you two are talking too much. :)

Jurassic Referee Wed Dec 13, 2006 05:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64
Now don't be bringing in any of your college stuff to the HS game, people around here don't like that. Naughty, Naughty
That reminds me.....

You never did answer the question about <b>your</b> college stuff.

You stated that you were hired as a college official, same as what Old School stated. Of course, you also stated that you had never done a high school game either.

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...877#post334877

So.......are you currently working NCAA D1, D2, D3, NAIA or JC regular season games?

And what pro leagues did you work too?

Just wondering.......

26 Year Gap Wed Dec 13, 2006 07:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018
Other than the fact that I've been getting over a cold for a couple weeks and have no voice, I verbalize pretty much everything as I call it. Especially fouls. My call goes - whistle w/ fist, drop whistle while action stops, "32 white, block" with the preliminary signal, if needed "40 red, 2 shots" so my partners can hear it.

Then go report and verbalize everything after making eye contact with the scorer.

The advantage for me when verbalizing is that I'm much more likely to remember the numbers! Nothing worse than forgetting on whom your foul was called.
Forgetting who GOT fouled is worse. Especially if you hear snickering.

Dan_ref Wed Dec 13, 2006 08:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64
Now don't be bringing in any of your college stuff to the HS game, people around here don't like that. Naughty, Naughty
Where's 'around here'?

btaylor64 Wed Dec 13, 2006 09:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
That reminds me.....

You never did answer the question about <b>your</b> college stuff.

You stated that you were hired as a college official, same as what Old School stated. Of course, you also stated that you had never done a high school game either.

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...877#post334877

So.......are you currently working NCAA D1, D2, D3, NAIA or JC regular season games?

And what pro leagues did you work too?

Just wondering.......
HS, JUCO, D2, pro camp and summer league this upcoming summer. Why is it that anytime someone who says they work college, or anything other than that you have to know what they do? What justification does that give you or us for that matter? Your an assigner, right? What do you assign, HS, JUCO, D1, D2, D3, NAIA, semi-pro? Like that is going to give me any more validation of you. Are you a rules freak or a common sense type of ref and/or assigner who still knows the rules and how to apply them? I'm sorry, but you do so much attacking and questioning of people that you probably don't deserve to know what I or anyone else works nor should you care. I could work in the NBA for all you know and even if you did know you would still not take what I or anyone else said (eroe39 ring a bell) as being valid or having merit, it is only up to what you and the rulebook have to offer. I rarely, if ever, hear your opinion on things, it is always a rulebook citing that comes in to play. I have news for you, there are situations you are put in that don't spell things out in black and white, and that is how the officiating works, it is a ton of grey.

tomegun Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:10pm
I don't want to speak for JR or anything, but I have an opinion about what you just said. Regardless of your post count, you are a new guy similarly to the way I'm a new guy in my local area. Hopefully you can understand how stating, in generic terms, what levels you work could raise doubt when nobody knows you.

I would still like to know if you are...tennesseeref. Can you tell me that?

Jurassic Referee Thu Dec 14, 2006 03:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64
Why is it that anytime someone who says they work college, or anything other than that you have to know what they do?
Well, I was just kind of wondering. After all, as of about 2 months ago, you had never worked a high school game of any kind. And I gotta say that a lot of your posts seem to lack a basic knowledge of some very fundamental rules and mechanics. That's jmo though, which really doesn't mean anything anyway either.

Btw, I'm no longer wondering though.:)

zebraman Thu Dec 14, 2006 03:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
One of the most important parts of our game, as officials, should be communication. Working NCAA-W, they have constantly reminded us that we need to signal and verbalize between partners, and I've tried to incorporate a lot of these ideas into my HS game as well. For example, the proper procedure on a violation is, stop clock, signal, direction, throw-in spot. We are told to verbalize things with our partners, such as, "Throw-in spot is right here, Tom", as we leave to go to our new spot. If there's a TO, we should all know as a crew where the ball is to be put in play even before the TO is reported to the table. If my partner has a shooting foul, I will try to tell them, "I've got your shooter, Tom" before they go report to the table. Before we shoot FT's, all three members of the crew will signal whether it's 1, 2, or 3 shots, so there are no mis-understandings and corectable error situations. When I call a foul, I usually verbalize as well, "White, 23, 2 shots". This way my partners will know what's going on rather than looking at each other wondering while I wander to the table.

I tend to verbalize quite a bit during a game, mostly to communicate to my partners and the table. Of course, there's the occasional communication with a player, coach, cheerleader, etc....

All good stuff, but this isn't "college stuff.'' Our good HS officials around here do all of the above.

M&M Guy Thu Dec 14, 2006 09:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebraman
All good stuff, but this isn't "college stuff.'' Our good HS officials around here do all of the above.
I realize that, but maybe I needed to be a little more clear. This is stuff I have learned through college-level camps; some of the mechanics are specific to NCAA-W, but they can also be used at the HS level. I wish some of this would be taught at more HS camps. Going back to tomegun's original post, I can understand some of his frustration, because I have also worked with officials that blow their whistle, move to the next spot, and "assume" the rest of know what's going on. Communication before, during, and after a game is critical, and it doesn't seem like it's emphasized as much at the HS level.


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