Sigh.....

Again, you really don't understand the concept of legal guarding position. I don't care what you say about the spirit and intent of the rule. The bottom line is that the rule book says that you are completely and totally wrong. And I know that you keep saying that you are a college and pro official too, but if you ever tried to call that nonsense in one of those games, you'd never do another one.

First of all, where does the "exact wording of the rule" protect the defender, LGP or not, who "stick[s] their leg out"? It doesn't. That is a block, every time. That is different than the situation under discussion.

Second, I am a firm believer that a player whose play meets "the exact wording of the rule" is not "get[ting] away" with anything. He or she is playing perfectly legal basketball and no referee should apply personal interpretations, even under the guise of "SPIRIT AND INTENT," to invent fouls on perfectly legal plays.

I agree with this totally. If a kid seems like he his flopping to get this call, I will no call it and tell him to stop it and from then on the onus is on him. Good statement Snaqwells

Just to clarify to everyone, and so you will stop using and misleading everyone on the forum, I DO NOT WORK PRO BALL. I have worked it and plan on working it in the future, but am not working it at this very moment and if you will gladly point to me the post where I explicitly said that I will retract my statement right here and now.

Even if you don't do pro ball, some of your comments are dubious for a college or experienced high school official.

:confused: How can you possibly do this in a game?

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...194#post357194

Your quotes were:

- <i>"It is hard to keep up when you <b>ARE working three different rulesets</b>. I know in <b>the pros and college</b>....."</i>

- <i>"You are still allowed to work anything you want if you work in the WNBA and the NBA D-League. Don't forget about semi-pro and pro-ams in the summer as well. I have to keep up with these rulesets <b>as I work</b> and will be working with all of these rulesets. <b>I hope that one one day I will be able to narrow it down to two, and finally to one, but for now that is how it has to be</b>"</i>.

You stated that you <b>are</b> working three rulesets. I just want to clarify that if you are, then you are wrong in your interpretation of LGP and how to make a block/charge call in three different rulesets too.

It can, and has, been said enough. One must understand the literal meaning of a rule before one can begin to make legitimate exceptions to that literal meaning.

Routine applications of the "letter" of a rule can be made without appealing to the rule's spirit. The vast majority of cases fall within the scope of routine applications. Thus, it is wise to learn the rules.

Switch on every foul? If you're lead at one end, and call a foul, you'll end up as lead at the other end so you can call the same play the same way. Same with trail. It's not that difficult.

Call a block on a player with LGP. No way! no How.

If a players is playing good defense we should never penalize it, when the player is playing marginal defense then they get called for the foul. If this player does not move the feet, and had LGP (no extensions out side of the frame... etc) It is most likely nothing or PC...

Dood defense? Is that a new trend in hs ball? I thought was mainly in the bar leagues...:D

Oh, so when you officiate these plays happen back to back right after you switch? That must work out nice for you. I don't work games where the players are so kind as to have similar plays back to back so we can make the same call every time. Where does the calling official go when it is a three man game? Are you sure it isn't that difficult? Think about it and tell me again how you can make sure the same official is at lead for these calls.

I don't work any 3-whistle, so I can't answer that part. No it doesn't always work out nicely like that, but sometimes it does. It's not a panacea to totally even out the calling. It's just one more possible way to reduce the number of problems that we can create for ourselves. Sometimes my partner and I can agree, sometimes the same person can be in place to call the same thing at both ends.

Occasionally, we have a problem when each partner refuses to adjust their calls. When that happens, and I think that's what the question in the oP was about, I try to adjust a little, and I try to make it so that one of us is getting the same calls at both ends. It's not the final answer, but it's one more tool.

The tone of your responses seems a little snippy. What's the issue?

That is part of the problem with typing instead of talking, I thought your previous post was a little snippy. To say it isn't that difficult isn't really accurate when you have to follow it up with many "ifs." In fact, it wouldn't be that difficult if these plays happened back to back and we all worked two man. Since we know, and knew when you made your original post, that it isn't that cut and dry, your reply was a little snippy. As always, please don't mistake my responses as snippy. I'm sorry, but I can be intense about things.

Okay, I see your point. If I remember correctly, you and I have had this problem before.

You know I also think that you do a lot higher level of ball that Rita and I are talking about. in JH, and Frsh and JV it often happens that the same thing will happen at both ends over and over. Less true in varsity, probably even less in college.

And that reminds me of another little coping mechanism to deal with it when P and I aren't on the same page. If a coach complains, "Call it both ways!", I have said a few times, "Coach those two plays were clearly not the same situation." That can be sort of true on almost any two situations, but you can't say it too often.