Thats not a foul?!?

[Larks]

Please correct me if I am wrong....I'd like a FIBA, NBA, NCAA, NFHS, Bob's backyard league, International, Olympic, grade school, CYO and any other level or organization world wide interp for this play...

A1 passes the ball to A2 who fumbles the ball.

So we have a loose ball about 2 or 3 feet from A2

She moves to pick it up...B2 dives for the ball from behind A2 taking the legs of A2 out from under her.

A2 falls to the floor....B2 secures the ball.

FOUL......right? RIGHT??

Mr. howler monkey informs me that I should let them play and that since the ball was loose, thats not a foul. I was also reminded that this was girls varsity basketball and not..."sissy ball" from one of his jr. howler types.

I thanked him for reminding me that we weren't playing "sissy ball" then promptly puked on his shoes.....

Shouldn't there be some sort of test that these guys have to pass to even be allowed to sit on the bench, let alone coach?

SISSY BALL FEVER.....CATCH IT!

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Larks

Please correct me if I am wrong....I'd like a FIBA, NBA, NCAA, NFHS, Bob's backyard league, International, Olympic, grade school, CYO and any other level or organization world wide interp for this play...

A1 passes the ball to A2 who fumbles the ball.

So we have a loose ball about 2 or 3 feet from A2

She moves to pick it up...B2 dives for the ball from behind A2 taking the legs of A2 out from under her.

A2 falls to the floor....B2 secures the ball.

FOUL......right? RIGHT??

Okay, let's see. Prone on the floor with arms outstretched horizontally to get the ball is not LGP, so she's not maintaining position, contact was initiated by B2, A2 falls, and B2 gets an illegal advantage.

Yup, that sounds like a foul

Originally Posted by Larks

Mr. howler monkey informs me that I should let them play and that since the ball was loose, thats not a foul. I was also reminded that this was girls varsity basketball and not..."sissy ball" from one of his jr. howler types.

I thanked him for reminding me that we weren't playing "sissy ball" then promptly puked on his shoes.....

...and reminded him that it's also not roller derby?

Originally Posted by Larks

Shouldn't there be some sort of test these guys have to pass to even be allowed to sit on the bench, let alone coach?

What they really need is a good swift T in the books.

Originally Posted by Larks

SISSY BALL FEVER.....CATCH IT!

I've caught it!!

[mick]

Many poorly coached teams demand rough play to cover their lack of skill.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by mick

Many poorly coached teams demand rough play to cover their lack of skill.

Very true Mick, plus, these are some of the schools who are opposed to three-whistle games.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Okay, let's see. Prone on the floor with arms outstretched horizontally to get the ball is not LGP, so she's not maintaining position, contact was initiated by B2, A2 falls, and B2 gets an illegal advantage.

Yup, that sounds like a foul

While I agree with you that a foul was committed in the situation described, I have to point out that this play has nothing to do with LGP and that even a player lying on the floor has a right to that space per that case play which I can never find when I need it.

This play is solely about one player causing illegal contact with another player.

[Time2Ref]

According to NFHS, I think that's a 15 yard penalty.......No wait, that's football.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Larks

Please correct me if I am wrong....I'd like a FIBA, NBA, NCAA, NFHS, Bob's backyard league, International, Olympic, grade school, CYO and any other level or organization world wide interp for this play...

A1 passes the ball to A2 who fumbles the ball.

So we have a loose ball about 2 or 3 feet from A2

She moves to pick it up...B2 dives for the ball from behind A2 taking the legs of A2 out from under her.

A2 falls to the floor....B2 secures the ball.

FOUL......right? RIGHT??

Mr. howler monkey informs me that I should let them play and that since the ball was loose, thats not a foul. I was also reminded that this was girls varsity basketball and not..."sissy ball" from one of his jr. howler types.

I thanked him for reminding me that we weren't playing "sissy ball" then promptly puked on his shoes.....

Shouldn't there be some sort of test these guys have to pass to even be allowed to sit on the bench, let alone coach?

SISSY BALL FEVER.....CATCH IT!

I feel a tad of sarcasm in your words

It's difficult to judge this kind of action without seeing it. In FIBA, and I believe under every rule set, two players are allowed to chase after a loose ball and the ensuing contact must be considered incidental if both had the opportunity to get the ball without causing illegal contact.

In this situation I would look closely at A2's movements, because it is frequent that the fumbler shifts in order to protect the ball before diving for it.

If B2 went for the ball just invading A2's cylinder, I would agree with you. If A2's movement had hindered B2's dive, it might have been a team control foul or a no call.

[sj]

And we're all sure the coach would feel the same way if it was his kid's legs that got taken out. They don't want us to get it right. They want us to get it for them.

[Hartsy]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

In FIBA, and I believe under every rule set, two players are allowed to chase after a loose ball and the ensuing contact must be considered incidental if both had the opportunity to get the ball without causing illegal contact.

Uh, yeah. If it's not incidental, it must be illegal. Your comment basically says two players can go after the ball unless one of them fouls, with which I agree.

The ball being loose does not suddenly turn all contact into incidental contact.

[Adam]

Does he coach rugby on the side?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

The ball being loose does not suddenly turn all contact into incidental contact.

Great wording!!

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

Uh, yeah. If it's not incidental, it must be illegal. Your comment basically says two players can go after the ball unless one of them fouls, with which I agree.

The ball being loose does not suddenly turn all contact into incidental contact.

Of course not. But the rules (at least ours) cover specifically this situation and say that you don't look at the severity of the contact, provided the players had the opportunity to get at the ball without causing illegal contact: if B2 had free space towards the ball, then the ensuing contact is incidental. So, just saying that A2 falls is not sufficient.

It's not a question of "sissy ball", I agree. But it's not an automatic foul either. If A2 was between B2 and the ball, then I'm inclined to call a foul on B2, but have to see the play to judge.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

Of course not. But the rules (at least ours) cover specifically this situation and say that you don't look at the severity of the contact, provided the players had the opportunity to get at the ball without causing illegal contact: if B2 had free space towards the ball, then the ensuing contact is incidental. So, just saying that A2 falls is not sufficient.

It's not a question of "sissy ball", I agree. But it's not an automatic foul either. If A2 was between B2 and the ball, then I'm inclined to call a foul on B2, but have to see the play to judge.

Yes, but....
In the original post, he specifically stated that B2 went through A2 to get to the ball, taking A2 out at the knees. I'm not picturing any play that could be described this way in which it is not a foul on B2.

[Larks]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yes, but....
In the original post, he specifically stated that B2 went through A2 to get to the ball, taking A2 out at the knees. I'm not picturing any play that could be described this way in which it is not a foul on B2.

That is exactly what happened....

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

Of course not. But the rules (at least ours) cover specifically this situation and say that you don't look at the severity of the contact, provided the players had the opportunity to get at the ball without causing illegal contact: if B2 had free space towards the ball, then the ensuing contact is incidental. So, just saying that A2 falls is not sufficient.

It's not a question of "sissy ball", I agree. But it's not an automatic foul either. If A2 was between B2 and the ball, then I'm inclined to call a foul on B2, but have to see the play to judge.

I don't know if FIBA espouses this philosophy or not, perhaps they do in different words. In HS rules when two (or more) players are going for a loose ball, long pass, etc., you have to look at how advantageous each of those player's positions is. For example, if you have two opposing players coming from opposite directions to secure a loose ball and they collide, you may well have nothing as neither player was in a more advantageous position. In the OP, A2 is between B2 and the ball, and thus has a significantly more advantageous position. If B2 causes illegal contact that negates that advantage, that's a foul.