Being shown up?
 

I was doing a freshman game Saturday and the coaches on one of the teams are lobbying for three seconds to be called on nearly every trip down the court in the first quarter. I'm in my first year so I consult with my partner, who has been doing this for 10 years, to make sure my understanding of the rule is correct. He assures me it is, says to ignore the coaches because the problem is they just don't have anybody who can cover the center and want us to bail them out. Fine. A little while later, I'm serving as trail official and one of the assistant coaches starts doing a count out loud. My first thought is to stop play and call a technical for trying to show us up. I decide to wait until the next break to talk to my partner again. He says he heard the counting too, but it's not serious enough to call a technical. I'm not sure I agree. The game soon became a blowout so the coaches kept quiet the rest of the way, but I still wonder if I should have followed my first instinct and called the technical, if only to let the guy know he better keep his mouth shut in future games. Anybody have thoughts?

Hmm
 

Even though he may be trying to "show" you up, I think you need to hold off on the T. Maybe warn him at the next dead ball, let him know you are watching for the 3 seconds but are not in the need of his help. I don't think I would T him up for what he did. But I am very generous.

The only way I say anything to the coach in that situation is if I am table side. Then, IF I say anything (because the noise is distracting me), it is only to pull my whistle out of my mouth a little and say "Coach, please control your bench" then move on.

I would first warn the head coach that the assistant is about to lose the coaching box for him. I wouldn't think twice about teeing up the assistant after that.

A trick that has worked for me in the past (but it won't work in all situations) is to tell the coach with a very straight face that everytime they count out loud or yell for 3 seconds you lose the count in your head and you have to start over. They will get the point and stop counting. Some officials will call 3 seconds on their team to get the point across but I don't advocate that.

Whining for the same call on <b>every</b> trip down the floor? An <b>assistant</b> coach showing you up like that where everybody in the stands can see and hear him doing so?

Nowayinhell you ignore that. Your 10-year partner is a l'il light in the intestinal fortitude department imo. Warn 'em then call the "T".

Nip it, nip it in the bud!

I have to agree with JR on this one. Me: "Coach, if you have any concerns, I will be glad to address them, but I don't want to hear from your assistant again. Thanks." Coach (turns to his assistant): "Stop!" End of discussion. Next time, Me: TWEET! "Technical Foul, ? Team Coach. Unsporting conduct." I give a lot of latitude to HEAD Coaches, I don't listen to assistants at all, unless it is during a timeout or intermission and they are asking a question or addressing a concern FOR the Head Coach (and doing it in a COURTEOUS, PROFESSIONAL manner) and to let them know their Time Out Situation. but that is me. JR and Nevada, among others, have already told me that I let coaches get away with too much. :D

COACHES? Greg, COACHES have no business saying anything to you. Yes, we allow the head coach some freedom. But COACHES implies more than one, which means the asst. is running his mouth. This is what happens when these things are ignored. It only gets worse. Give the head coach one opportunity to clean it up. Then, take care of business. If I have an asst. coach who is counting 3 seconds aloud, there won't be a warning.

BTW, that comes from our state association office as well. Asst. coaches are to be seen, not heard.

I like the reply by All Heart...I always tell them...."I only have an Alabama Public School Education, so I may count slower than others, but I always count the same":)

I would try to warn the head coach first -
I do not have a book with me at the moment but there is something in the book about trying to influence or show displeasure with an officials call by gesturing being a technical foul. I would say that this qualifies as such so after one quick warning to the head coach WHACK them let the caoch deal with the assistant later.

Assistants are there to coach, not to talk to us. At a lower level game, I would have thrown a T. Varsity, I would have talked to the head coach or the assistants and assure them if their bench isn't controlled, I'd jump in and take care of it. Friday night, girl's varsity, one of my partners calls a foul early in the game and 3 assistants sort of stand (they didn't get all the way up) and complain. The first time out I walked over and reminded them that we would only be talking to the HC and that they need to keep themselves calm so we don't have to take care of them. They thanked me for talking to them and we didn't hear a peep out of them the rest of the game.

Try this technique. Go over to the bench and ask, "Who is my head coach?" Now you obviously know who that is if you did the right things before the game. But say it loud enough that all the coaches hear you ask this question and wait for the response. When no one says anything, then let it be known you will only listen to the head coach and tell the head coach he is responsible for the conduct of his bench. I will bet you a lot of money if you have to give a T after that, the message would have been sent.

Assistant coaches are to be seen and not heard. As said above we give the head coach a little leeway because of mores in many sports, but no one has the right to incite the crowd or behave in a manner that is inappropriate. It is very inappropriate to yell out a count. Also remember if you are working a freshman coach, chances are they are not very experienced or very knowledgeable. If they were more knowledgeable or more talented, they would be not at the freshman level. So always keep that in mind when you are working these types of games.

Peace

After crying unacknowledged for a moment for a traveling call, I had an assistant last week earn a T for sarcastically praising us for getting a travel on his team. Oddly, I didn't hear a peep from him or the HC the rest of the game.

Funny how that happens sometimes :D :D :D

Seriously, there's no reason to put up with this repeatedly from any coach, but especially from an assistant. At the first occurance I'll normally give the HC a chance to fix it - a calm, quiet "Coach, you need to get your bench under control" usually does the trick. If it doesn't, then call the T.

IMHO the reason a lot of this behavior occurs is that collectively, we as officials don't do the best job of setting clear limits and then consistently enforcing them. It doesn't help when they get away with murder one night, then get their feet held to the fire the next. We need to do better.

We just got an email from one of my assignors the other day about this very thing. He said that when you let a coach or player get out of control, you do a disservice to the rest of us because that individual gets the message their behavior is acceptable. Great point!

I disagree with this completely. Just because one official tolerates or does not penalize someone for their behavior, does not do any of a disservice. Not everyone is at the same level of ability or knows how to deal with coaches. This was a first year official, I do not expect him to handle the situation like a long time veteran. Coaches need to know what is acceptable or not and many times they have to run into certain officials that do not care what they think. Maybe they would be able to intimidate much younger official and they will not get that same treatment when they run across someone that knows how the assignor and officiating community feels.

Peace

I agree, how each official deals with coaches varies according to their ability. The message was sent because my assignor was out watching games and evidently saw some things happen that he thought shouldn't have been tolerated. What I liked about the note was that it went out to administrators and coaches as well as us.

Even with a letter sent out, each official is going to have to use their judgment and experience to make decisions on how to handle certain behavior. At the very least the coaches know they are put on notice. Not everyone is going to have to stick a coach because some veterans are going to be able to send a message without anyone realizing (people not on the floor) they took care of a situation.

Peace

But the point is that the veteran DID take care of it. The problem isn't that different officials handle situations differently, the problem is that some officials DON'T handle them at all. I believe that was the assigner's point. When one crew doesn't address the coaches' poor behavior, whether due to laziness, lack of fortitude, or rank inexperience, it does make the job more difficult for the next crew.

Now the next crew may be perfectly capable of handling this newly emboldened coach, then again they may be a less experienced crew whose lives will be made more difficult as a result of the first crew's inaction.

Assigners aren't generally worried about the JRut's of the world, who can clearly be relied on to take care of business, they're worried about retaining their rookies and keeping their lower level games under control.

At least that's what I read into this assigner's letter.

I personally like the way the NCAA has spelled things out for us as far as bench decorum and how to handle the coaches and their benches...at the meeting, when I first heard it, I was not thrilled and thought it was "putting us in a box" so to speak on how we could deal with coaches...after getting some games under my belt, I really like the new POE. It frees me up from having to constantly deal with coaches and their little helpers...this far into the season, the coaches know that after the warning comes the whack and they are responding quite well...the warning point may be different from official to official, or from crew to crew, but when the warning is given - they have been stopping.

Counting seconds is pretty much my one automatic technical. I don't mind if the coach wants to ask "Hasn't he been in there for a while?" or "Why don't you call three seconds?" Hell - I'll even let him shout and moan for a three seconds call.

When anyone on the bench starts doing the counting for me, the head coach gets one warning. After that, technical foul every time.

The officials that will not handle them are not going to be solved in a letter or a directive. There are going to be officials that are not capable to handle those situations. Remember these are judgment calls and it is really hard to tell people how to use their judgment in difficult situations. Even we talking about this hear is not going to advance some people that are reading this.

We are also talking about a freshman coach. Which means they will not see the most experienced and confident officials around. I worked a freshman game last night and neither coach said a word to either me or my partner. My partner had much less experience than I did, but because of his normal profession, he had a certain confidence that the coaches left me and him alone. Afterwards the coaches thought we were some of the best officials they had seen at that level. I am sure other officials at the same level of my partner would not have been able to handle the game or have the level of consistency that made my job much easier for the two games we worked.

Whether an official thinks me and others can handle the situation is still not the issue from my point of view. All officials are not the same and no matter what you put in a letter are not going to completely change how different officials handle these types of situations. Coaches just need to know when they roll the dice they might just crap out. If they do not want to get hit with a technical foul, then shut up and no one can fairly stick you.

Peace

At the dead ball, go over there and tell the HC that anymore such uncalled for comments will be penalized, then blow your whistle and say outloud (in direction of partner(s)): "bench has been warned." From then on, deal with it as needed.

And what the memo said was....

I like this. JR's right, the high time guys can (or should) take care of things. Yet, many times the less experienced refs are afraid to rock the boat. They're afraid of being cut. IMHO, the letter gives them the license to take care of business. It encourages it and explains why. It puts everyone on the same page and then if some coach wants to complain or cut an official for taking care of business, his assignor should give the ref the "atta boy". He should also remind the coach, in a friendly way, about the letter.

barryb

I'm all about letting my partners know if a bench/coach has been warned but I don't think you need to blow your whistle to do that. Just let them know at the next dead ball opportunity and move on. Coaches warnings do not need alot of pomp and flair.

What I liked about the memo from my assignior (we have a couple different memos talked about here) was that it give me confidence to work my game and do what I do. This is our first year in his conference and it is probably one of if not the highest profile conference in the state. We are working for him this year for the first time (at the varsity level) and I am guessing we will have some coaches that try to see how far they can take us. As we all know, you don't want to get the reputation of a quick temper, but you also have to keep sportsmanship where it should be. His memo lets me know that I can and better take care of business if I want to continue to work in the league.

3rd year Officials Experience
 

I am one of the newer officials who is trying to learn the game management skill set. I also work in a Assoc. where giving out a T to a coach is perceived to be a sign of having BAD game management skills.

1st year-my skill set consisted on trying my hardest not to hear the coaches--I was unsure of myself and lacked confidence and I am sure I projected that to the coaches. Lots of games that went sideways.

2nd year-starts out the same as the first. It's not getting any better. I start practicing the 3 step system then the stop sign and then the T. I actually give a couple of T's. It gets a little better. Then something clicks inside of me. I utilize the 3 step system and start T'ing where appropriate. I talk to coaches-sometimes successfully and other times not so successfully. I even baited a coach into a T. Not happy about that one but I learned what not to say to a coach.

3rd year-I do summer leagues. I talk to coaches. I use the 3 step system. I am getting confident and I believe the coaches are sensing that i will take care of business. 12 games so far. Talked one coach off the ledge. I answer questions. I enforce the coaches box in a direct manner. No T's. No sideways game. I am enjoying my games.

The most important thing for me was I realized the Assoc. group attitude about T's and game management was causing me to allow my games to go sideways. i was afraid of what they would think of me. I wanted good ratings so in my mind no T's- good ratings. I now have the attitude I do what I do,strive to improve, continue the 3 step system, and let the ratings fall where they may. My ratings skyrocketed after I learned how to take care of business and became willing to take care of business.

I agree with juggling, You warn him and then whack him. It may seem small initially, but you may have opened the door for other issue later on. So warn him and then if it continues whack him.. IMO

Greg, for what it's worth, I do NOT suggest that you try the technique suggested above. I agree with the others who have suggested that the best method is to first request that the coach controls her/his bench and then to assess a technical foul if and only if it continues.

Well I would suggest you do try this because I have never had to give a T a single time when I have used this technique. NOT ONE TIME. Now I will say this, not all techniques are going to work for everyone. You are also asking the coach to take control of their bench and to let the others know their behavior is crossing a line. You have every right as an official to say things to let everyone know their behavior is not acceptable. I have seen this done by others at many levels and I am amazed it works every time someone has had to pull this out. It also works in multiple sports because the same expectation for the HC is not very different in other sports and control of the bench.

Peace

Keep in mind that not everyone will react the same. So you need to assess each situation differently. If you warn them and note it in the book, It's documented, and then if it persists. You then have all the right to give him a T. You are there to administer the rules of basketball as written by NFHS. If your region is like mine the coaches all have to go to a coaches clinic, just like we officials have to go to a clinic. they are well warned by the state of the POE's as well as bench attitude. The coaches need to coach their players not you.This has nothing to do with weakness as an official or excersing control of power. We follow the rules as written by NFHS. If you stay within those boundaries Most of the time you won't get in trouble as an official, if not all of the time.

A documented warning is not necessary, it's not in the rules. Unless I'm directed to by either my state or local association; I'm not doing that because it's leaving a paper trail for my decision to deviate from the rules. A stop sign works 95% of the time. Reminding the head coach that she's the only one who gets to talk to me works 99% of the time.

Of course, 90% of my advice is reasonable.

An undocumented warning isn't necessary either,:)

Our assn. calls them 'reminders'.