Over the Back
 

While watching an NCAA game the other night A1 is fouled during a rebound attempt by B1 who comes over his back from behind.
L calls the foul and while reporting to the table he makes a motion with his arm coming down in front of him in a high arc indicating what the call obviously was for.
Unfortunately, you never get to see the officials on TV actually reporting the foul. My question is, since we all know there is no actual 'Over the back' foul signal, how would that be properly reported to the table. Illegal use of hands?
What if the contact was made by B1's torso on A1's back? Would it constitute a charge or push from behind?
I've seen coaches yell at refs for "over the back!" just for players reaching over for the ball with no contact. No contact, no foul correct?

Typically the L doesn't take "overtheback" calls because usually it's a push from behind and most humans don't have x-ray vision. So this guy might have been communicationg to his partners, the coach and whoever else was in the stands (observers) that he clearly saw B1's arm rake in front of A1 and wasn't just fishing. Just my very humble opinion, but might explain what you saw.

And yes, you can go "overtheback" legally. The foul is displacement, usually a push on the body or arms from behind.

You are correct, over the back does not exsist. There will always be contact during rebounding situations because players are taught that the first thing they should do when the ball goes up is put a body on someone. What we have to look for as officials is illegal contact. To me, I look for anything that causes one player to have an advantage over another. The main thing I look at is displacement. Is one player moving another? Secondly I look to see that players are jumping straight up. Then I look to make sure no one is holding anyone else from moving. Lastly I look for rebounders swinging their arms and contacting someone illegally. Depending upon what kind of illegal contact we have if there's a foul, I will use the push, hold or illegal use of the hands mechanic.

Over the Back does not exsit, however if i have a push in the back, i use the push/charge signal..if i see a hold, I use the hold signal...if I illegal use of hands, I use the hand check signal....I never use the words, over the back because it does not exsist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PYRef I've seen coaches yell at refs for "over the back!" just for players reaching over for the ball with no contact. No contact, no foul correct?

The next time you hear such a coach, give him this.

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If you have ever been to a game, you’ve heard it. Two players jump for a rebound and the player from behind gets the ball. “Over the back!” You’ve heard it from coaches. You’ll hear from other fans. We all hear it when we watch a game on TV. But the truth is, it doesn’t exist. There’s no such thing as “Over the back.”

“Over the back” is what officials refer to as “announcerspeak.” It has its origin with the talking heads that grace our airwaves from November to March. Years ago, someone like Dick Vitale or Billy Packer uttered the words, “Over the back!” We don’t really know who said it. We don’t know when it happened. But we know that more rules myths and fallacies have been created by television’s talking heads than any other source known to man. This particular myth is so widespread that even some officials mistakenly use the term. Unfortunately, this simply further perpetuates the myth.

The common misconception is that anytime the player who has inside position doesn’t get the rebound, then it has to be “Over the back!” It doesn’t matter if there was contact or not. That’s the myth. It’s as though verticality doesn’t exist. Rebounding is governed by the principle of verticality, just like other phases of the game that allow a player to legally occupy a space on the floor. Every player is entitled to a spot on the floor provided the player obtains the spot without illegally contacting an opponent. He is allowed to jump vertically within his established space and have his hands and arms extended within his vertical plane. He is allowed this opportunity without regard to where his opponent is positioned.

When a shot goes up, many players go to great lengths to maneuver for position. When the ball rebounds off the board or rim, contact can occur between two opponents going for the ball. But just because contact occurs, it does not mean a foul has occurred. If both players are jumping within their vertical plane, then any contact that occurs is incidental. It is not a foul on the player who is rebounding from behind his opponent just because he is behind him. The player who has position between his opponent and the basket is given no more protection or consideration than his opponent. As long as both players stay within their vertical plane, a foul shouldn’t be called.
We also hear many fans yell, “Over the back!” when a taller player reaches over a shorter opponent from behind and snags a rebound, even if he doesn’t touch his shorter opponent. Is this a foul? Of course not. First, there has to be contact for a foul to occur. Second, that contact has to be illegal. Finally, why should a player be penalized simply because he’s able to reach above an opponent and rebound the ball without contacting him?

You’re probably thinking, “If there’s no such thing as ‘Over the back,’ when does a foul occur?” A foul occurs when actual illegal contact occurs. A foul occurs when either player displaces their opponent. Without regard to who has better position, a player who pushes and displaces the opponent has fouled. When the player from behind violates the opposing player’s vertical plane and displaces him, it’s a foul. By the same token, the player in front can jump backwards and foul. Having the inside position does not guarantee the player a rebound or a foul. Many times, you’ll see the inside player jump into the player from behind, who simply went up within his vertical plane. “That’s over the back ref!” No, I’m afraid it’s not. That’s a foul on the inside player.
Along those same lines, players can legally box out an opponent. Boxing out is simply a form of screening. But players who are attempting to box out can also foul. We refer to this as “backing out” versus “boxing out.” A player who is boxing out is not allowed to displace his opponent by backing him out, anymore than a player is allowed to push an opponent in front of him. That’s a foul. Whether a player is using his hands or his body, it’s still a foul to push and displace an opponent. We also see players who will back under a player who has leaped vertically for a rebound. We once again hear cries of “Over the back!” But it’s the player who is backing out that has violated the rebounder’s verticality.

I’m certain that we’ll continue to hear cries of “Over the back!” We’ll continue to hear from fans, coaches, players, and yes, unfortunately, a few officials. But you’ll know better. There is no such thing as “Over the back.”

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PYRef,

One other thing is that SOME officiais we see on TV can get away with using some mechanics that MOST officials cannot, simply because of how good they've been and how long they've been that good.

There's nothing wrong with that, just something to remember when you are watching games on TV. Just like as a coach, I can't dance around on the sidelines like Gary Williams or cuss like Coach K. :rolleyes:

You can, but not for long.:D Sorry, a little good natured ribbing from an official to a coach

Right. But, this wasn't a human, this was a D-I ref.

"Over is Good. ON is bad."

communication
 

As I have said in the past, I do not advocate explaining every call that a coach complains about. But, on rare occasions when a coach screams, "Over the back!" I have given him a quick look and held my hands the appropriate distance apart. This is sign language for "He was this far from him." Amazingly, sometimes it works. I have seen coaches nod and sit down. This is sign language for, "Oh, my bad."

LOL, I like that one!!!!!

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What is a push/charge signal? I got the push. How can you have a charge if you have a defensive displacement ona rebound?

Push or Charge, the foul signal is the same. I'm not sure I follow your second statement though. If there is no team control on a try, there is no offensive/defensive anything on the rebound. You could call the foul as either one if you felt it applies, right?

See NFHS signal #32. Charging isn't confined to offensive players--rule 4-7-2. It's just semantics. It's the signal used when a defender sees a screen and tries to run through it anyway, for instance.