Which Way do you prefer????
 

Just practicing outside my tosses for the start of the season. Just interested in what is the popular approach.

A-- One hand overhead and push (the Steve Wehlmer approach)
B-- Two hand underhand (The Jim Burr method)
C-- One hand underhand

Which do you think is more accurate???

I go behind the back. It adds more flair.

I break out the tall ladder and drop the ball down! I use a two hand toss in boy's games and one hand in girl's games.

I put a captain from each team on an endline and they race for the ball at midcourt.

Where do you think the XFL got the idea?

We're experimenting with a machine similar to JUGS to launch it...only problem is that ya have to depend on the table to pull it off the court really quickly by the extension cord.:D

I do the two hand underhand toss...

then open up with my arms like a flower in bloom...kinda adds a flare. ;)

I do the one-hander and then stand there posing with good follow-through as if I have just ripped the cords on a long jumper. After all, it's all about me. :rolleyes:

I do the one handed underhand toss.

Option A. The shorter the distance the ball has to travel, the less it is affected by a poor toss.

One handed, under hand.

Doesn't matter which, go with what feels comfortable, but there are some things that have to happen for a good toss:

1. Use the same routine every time.

2. Make sure that you have the room to do your toss, before you get in there.

3. Weight on the front foot.

4. There's no such thing as too high, so get it up there.

5. REMOVE WHISTLE FROM MOUTH!

I do the bounce, bounce, bounce, then two handed toss.

This usually keeps the players off guard and I rarely see any jumpers come close to stealing the tip.

Peace

This is what I do. I tried the "A" option, but just wasn't comfortable with it. I like to have both my arms up at the end to protect my head from jumpers' elbows.

I do this exactly and if it is college or pro guys I get even crazier by telling the guys we are going up after the third bounce and throw it up after the second one. They definitely aren't stealing that tip.

The method that works best for me is to look at a spot about three feet higher than the taller of the two jumpers, then "shot put" the ball to that spot with one hand. I never toss underhand.

This is probably the best method even though most wouldn't like it. Most other methods are easier to time. Danny Crawford and (heaven help me) Steve Ulmer are the only guys I see that really use one hand without dipping down. Going up straight off the bounce eliminates this because most jumpers don't expect it.

I don't bounce the ball. I walk in the circle with the ball in my right hand. I tell the players I'm going straight up and then push the ball up underhand with a release point above my head. I'm 6'5", so the combination of my height and talking to the jumpers as I enter the circle doesn't afford the jumpers an opportunity to steal the tap. In fact a couple times a season my toss gets called back b/c jumpers will mis-time their jumps and/or miscalculate the height of the toss and both will miss the ball.

I used to do the one-hand underhand toss but I was really inaccurate and inconsistent...just all over the place. I saw someone on TV a couple years ago (don't remember who or even if college or pros) who stepped into the circle with the ball in his left hand (off to his left a little) and swept it up and center in one motion. As the ball came center he pushed it straight up (i.e., tossed it) with his right hand. I know, I know, it sounds complicated and dorky, but I tried it my next game, it worked great and I've been doing it ever since. I'm in a rhythm, don't dip with either hand or body, consistently toss the ball straight, and I'm more able to avoid the jumpers (being already in motion vice standing still). Works for me.

Flip the half-dollar in the air, ask "Heads or Tails?", catch it, flip it on the back of the wrist, announce the result. Oh, wait, this isn't Iowa? :rolleyes:

Hey, it was only the girls; and they stopped last year. :D

One hand underhand. The only thing I think about is, after releasing the ball, to throw my fingers straight up in the air after it. I think it helps me anyway to get the ball to go straight up. I also put the ball slightly on my finger tips so the ball goes up dead with a minimum of spin.

I don't know, there's something to be said for adding some English to the ball; just to see if you can affect the tip. :)

I prerfer the one hand toss. I am still trying to perfect it as I don't think it looks real good now. What I need to work on is not dipping my body down b4 the toss. If you have the players too close to you and each other, you are subject to get an elbow or something like this on the way up. Make sure you push them back apart from each other, men's only.

I don't understand why you referee's are trying to trick the players b4 you toss it up. That's ridiculous to me. If you throw the toss up faster and harder that won't happen. Too high is okay, simply retoss and not as high, but too low is a problem.

What I have notice with the two handed toss and the quick toss is though it looks really good when done correctly, more often than not, the toss does not go up high enough. These tosses penalize a certain style of jumper who is doing it correctly, expecting the toss to go up higher. He now has to get to it quicker. This style creates the vary problem we are trying to avoid, in my opinion, and that's to get to it quicker instead of get to it at it's climax.

I do the one hand overhead and push. Works for me.

Bounce it off the top of your head .... Soccer style.

(Make SURE whistle is o-o Mouth)

One handed toss, over the head.

People who use the two handed toss tell me they would prefer to cover their face from the jumpers' elbows. I'm more concerned about the jumper's knees/feet, so I use my other hand to cover something else. :)

Classy. :D I wondered where Junker picked that up. ;)

So why do these get called back...??? The jumpers can still tap the ball after they land...can't they...??? I know it looks bad...and not a good way to start. But should these really get called back? Just asking... :D

If it's straight up and down, no need to call it back. If it bounces, then the jumpers can grab it legally. Might not look good, but it's legal and there's no reason to retoss this.

You mean if it bounces untouched by either jumper? Check 6-3-6.

6-3-6 The tossed ball must be touched by one or both of the jumpers after it reaches its highest point. If the ball contacts the floor without being touched by at least one of the jumpers, the referee shall toss it again.

And if they didn't attempt to touch the ball, then I believe we "order" them to both jump and attempt to touch the ball on that next toss.;)

This is a good question and in my opinion the answer is to call it back, retoss because the ball was thrown too high. Unless the ball is thrown way too high, this is not a bad thing. If I'm U1 or U2, we are re-jumping that. The reason is we're starting this game on a good note, good toss, good jump, etc. What you need to consider is the objective of the jump ball which is to hit the ball at it highest point. If this can't be done, you got guys swinging at it on the way down, just like you said, a mess, and it looks bad and it also looks like you don't know what you are not doing if you're not calling it.

If I'm critiquing you as an assigner/clinician and U1 and U2 don't blow their whistle to retoss. I'm taking points off for that and I'm also going to assume you don't know what you are doing. On the other hand, if you do blow your whistle, it swings completely the other way. I'm going to assume that this guy knows his stuff and yes, I'm impressed! Hope that helps.

Remember, it's sometimes the little things that can get you from one step on the ladder to the next.

Peace

1) I hate to break it to you, Old One, but the objective is to hit the ball <b>AFTER</b> it reaches it highest point and it <b>IS</b> on the way down. Sez so right in the rules--specifically rule 6-3-6. It's been the same rule since the days of the peachbasket too. Of course, you wouldn't know that, would you? As we've determined many times in the past, you aren't an official, have never been an official and you don't own a rule or case book. Care to cite that rule for us <i>verbatim</i> from your rule book?:)

2) Fanboys and trolls don't get a chance to critique officials, except to other fanboys and trolls.

I hate to admit it, but you're not even a good troll anymore either. What you post is so completely wrong rules-wise and also so patently stoopid that even the newbies here know enough to not take you seriously.

Why don't you try the Baseball forum again? You've already been laughed off of it once, but maybe they've forgotten you by now.

Naw, on second thought, fuggedaboutit. Back to McGriffs where you belong. Shoo, shoo......

And you think it sounds a good note to blow back the jump because the jumpers mis-timed their jumps?

What you need to consider is a rulebook. That might be the jumpers' objective, but I couldn't care less about that. That's none of our business as officials. Toss it, and let them figure it out.

Guess what I'm assuming about you?

I appreciate your responses. But I'm still a little unsure as to "WHY" you think this should be called back. Are you saying that this is a personal preference because of how it "looks"? If so I can understand how you could feel this way. As I've said, I think it looks bad also. But by doing this aren't you then imposing your own will on the game?

In my opinion (since noone asked... :D ) this is not a judgement call. If both Players either jumped too early or if we have overestimated their jumping ability and they miss the toss at its highest point then so be it. If the players then legally tap the ball before the ball hits the floor we have a good opening toss (relatively speaking). If team A gained possession during this toss would you take the ball away from them simply because you didn't like the way the toss "looked"...??? If I'm the coach of Team A I'm going ballistic about that time.

If I'm in the stands and I am the evaluator when the official takes the ball away from Team A because he (or she) didn't like the way the toss "looked"...he (or she) would probably get "dinged". Mostly because I think this just compounds the problem. You already started the game with a messy toss...you tossed too high or they just missed it...It doesn't matter. I don't think we should compound the situation by taking the ball away from a team that legally gained possession simply because we didn't like the way it looked...

But that's just me. And I don't know everything...yet. But I'm hoping you guys will help me remedy that... ;) Good discussion and good responses. Thanks for letting me participate.

Accept you blast it before anybody gets control. Remember, both jumpers missed it, beep! If the toss is too high and both jumpers miss it. Nothing bad has happen, just re-toss it, and not so high the next time. It would be unfair in my opinion to let any team receive the ball when the jump was not executed correctly.

Don't beat yourself up on at it's highest point or after it's highest point, these points are truely mute (and anal) which is exactly what I recommend you do for these other posters who choose to spread hate and dislike for their fellow officials. You're going to run into a lot of people like these guys in your quest to be a good official and climb the labber.

They hate on me so bad because they can not break my spirits. Have a nice day...Peace

God, I hate idiots. :mad:

Um, does that mean you're not going to cite NFHS rule 6-3-6 for us?:D

Then how about maybe citing case book play 6.3.7(a)? That case play gives a definitive answer to your previous assertation that a two-handed tap by a jumper on a jump ball was a violation.

Show us that you are a real, live, honest-to-goodness official, OldOne. Prove to us that you do own a current NFHS rule book and case book.

Not worth getting upset about, ScrappyDoo. He's just your average, everyday, run-of-the-mill troll.

Wow, you must blow back about every other jump then. Get on with the game, no one will remember it in less than 10 seconds.

Actually, it's just the opposite, it's rare to see both jumpers miss the tip. But it does happen, and in that .01% of the time, beep! Retoss! I saw a bad toss last night, not high enough but I did not call it back because both jumpers hit it at about it's highest point, I guess, game on.

I use the two hand, underhand method. I've tried the one-handed overhead push and I am horrible at it.

Let's change this just for fun.
"What you need to consider is that the objective of the free throw is for the player to make the shot. If this can't be done, you have players flailing for the ball on its way down, it's just a mess and it looks bad and it looks like the refs don't know what they're doing."

This may sound stupid, but so does your post. You don't call back a legitimate toss because the players missed it. You let it play out. If I ever have a U call back my toss because the players missed it and looked awkward, we're having some unpleasant words at half time.

Glad you bought this up. Another thing to consider. There are some better than thou officials out here who go by the thinking that only the R calls back a bad toss. I'm not in total disagreement on this because nobody knows better that the toss is off than the person that tossed it. However, my problem is by the time the R gets the whistle back in his mouth and ready to blow, the ball is already half way down the court, and more often than not, the R will just let it go. Which is why I blast it right away to stop the play.

To the second point. If you toss the ball too high, and both jumpers miss it. I will blow it and dare you to say something to me about it in the locker room. If I'm a clincian, I going to take a point off for throwing the ball too high, although I will admit. I would take more points off for a toss too short and you got players that can jump.

Actually, I think you need to give this some thought. When evaluating who may go to the playoff's and who's going to be the lead official. I bet there might be discussions on who tosses good and who doesn't, and this person will be selected the R. What I'm saying is if you got a strong 3-person crew and the decision is being made, who's going to be the lead official in this crew, everything else being equal of course. I would not doubt that the decision to be the R might come down to the person who tosses it the best.

Just a thought....

You cannot toss the ball too high, since by rule you are supposed to toss it higher than either jumper can jump.

6-3-4 . . . The referee shall then toss the ball upward between the jumpers in a plane at right angles to the sidelines. The toss shall be to a height greater than either of them can jump so that it will drop between them.

Sigh....TrollBoy strikes again with more completely misleading and completely <b>wrong</b> statements.

From the NFHS <b>OFFICIALS MANUAL</b>- <i>If the toss is poor, <b>any of the officials</b> shall sound the whistle immediately, signal the clock should not start and order a rejump".</i> NCAA uses the exact same mechanic.

The only one thinking like you is <b>you</b>. Real officials know what the proper procedures and mechanics to follow are.

He just doesn't know the basics, Jim.:rolleyes:

I would take you up on that dare. What does the rule book say is "too high"? When are you going to blow the whistle and when will you let it go? We will have that discussion.

I have been to over 40 high school and college camps in my career and that has <B>never</B> been brought up as an issue. My partners will catch heck for not blowing back a bad toss before I will catch it for the bad toss.

That is not even a factor in the state of Illinois, or in the college ranks. The R is determined by a number of factors, including experience, rules knowledge, court presence, and sometimes, by coin flip. In fact, in NCAA-W, the R can designate who does the toss. So how does "tossing ability" become a factor in who is the R?

I will be happy to discuss these issues further, but you have ignored my previous questions. This leads me to believe that JR is correct in his assessment. There are a number of new officials that come to this forum for information, and they will gladly admit they are new and/or inexperienced. There will be many disagreements even among the experienced officials, but it would be a shame for the less experienced ones to accept obviously incorrect information.

Just a thought...

This is fun. I have numbered your points above in the order I will address them.

1. No one here ever said this. In fact, it's generally the U's job to do this; but the R can certainly do it.

2. If you blow it dead because I tossed it "too high," I will say something to you about it in the dressing room. I will also say something to the assignor after the game.

3. I'm not sure what a "clincian" is, but it's obvious you're not a clinician. There's no rule that allows you to call this back, and a clinician wouldn't advocate doing so.

4. I have no idea if they "can jump" or not, so throw it high regardless. Don't blow it dead unless there's a violation or the toss doesn't go straight up.

5. You have no idea how the process goes for playoff evaluation, you've made that much obvious.

6. You should have kept it a thought rather than broadcasting it. "Better to keep quiet and letter others think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and prove them right."

This is an NCAA rule, not just an NCAA Women's rule. ;)

I will say that if the R is designated by an assignor, he does not pick this based on something as minor as to whether you can toss the ball. At the Varsity level or college level, the R is an important position if for no other reason but symbolic. Usually the senior or well respected officials are always the R. Maybe this is the reason Ed Hightower is almost always the R in his games.

Peace

One more point, for now. I think it would be generally assumed that anyone with the experience required to be an R in any game at the HS varsity level or above is going to have an adequate toss. To suggest that the R may be decided based on who has the best toss would suggest that some aren't competent at it. That's not going to happen at this level.

A coach's perspective.

1-Almost all tosses are good enough, probably over 99%. Also, it is easy enough to correct if there is a bad toss, so I don't see why that would be a factor in how decisions would be made for who is R or who is moving up.

2-When I played, a ref would often say, "I'm going to throw it high," as he came into the center circle. That seemed effective to me in getting a legal toss and getting the jumpers to know not to jump quickly and try to steal it.

I wasn't 100% sure, so I mentioned the part I knew.

I also knew there would be someone who would straighten me out. ;)

I was taught to use one hand and make sure not to dip my hand before I toss. To work on the toss, I stand next to the rim on a court and try to toss it as close to the rim as I can without hitting it, aiming above the rim in accordance with the level I usually work (better athletes need a higher toss).

Gentlemen, I'm glad I sparked such a intense discussion among us referee's. It always good when we start to challenge each others knowledge and most importantly understanding of the rules. Let me respond to you. First of all, Snaqwells says this...

Then I say, if I think the toss is bad I have no problems as the U calling a retoss and dare you to say something to me about it in the locker room. Then JR makes my point.

But the point here is this. If the toss is a couple inches (give or take) higher than the jumper highest reach, this is a good toss. I'm not calling that back and here's the reason why.

JR, at this point in his career has separated himself from the player part of the game. He is strictly focus on the rules and rulebook. I, on the other hand still play the game and come from this at a players prospective as well as a referee. I have the interest of both in mind when I consider the rule. JR only considers the word. For example: the rules says

6-3-4 . . . The referee shall then toss the ball upward between the jumpers... The toss shall be to a height greater than either of them can jump so that it will drop between them.

If you toss the ball a few inches higher than either of them can jump. Guess what? There's this thing call "hang time" when you jump. A lot of good athletes can jump up and hang in the air so that if the ball is not toss too high, it will come down while they are still in the air and they will successfully tip it. Hang time people! Remember, Dr.J could jump from the FT line and hang (time) in the air until he dunk the ball. If you throw the ball 2, 3, 4 FEET higher than these guys can jump. There is no way they are going to tip the ball before they return to the floor and this is when I say beep, retoss. A few inches higher, perfect. A few feet higher, no, not in my opinion.

This is, IMHO, a proper question to ask. I believe I answer it above. The book does not say too high, so technically, by the written word, you could throw the ball up to the ceiling and this still be a legal toss as long as it's straight. This is where I come in and say let's be reasonable here.

And finally, Rule 6.3.7a: Neither jumper shall: Touch the toss ball before it reaches it's highest point.

If we're tossing the ball by rule higher than the player can jump, and by rule, the player should not tough the ball until it's coming back down. Why is 90% of the R tosses not going up high enough? Nobody is following the rule when it comes to the jump ball because 90% of you don't even throw it up high enough. Oh, but you can jump all over me for not knowing that you don't touch the ball until it's coming down. But you say nothing to the 90-99% of you who allow the ball to be touched BEFORE it reaches it highest point. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

peace.

We interrupt this topic for an important message:

"Hang time" is a myth.

The amount of "hang time" anything has depends on the speed and angle it leaves the ground at and the force of gravity. You can only control the speed & angle you leave the ground at. I don't care who you are - once you've left the ground there is nothing you can do about gravity dragging you back down at a predictable rate.

We now return you to your original topic.

I disagree with the post stating that the R can blow the toss dead. By rule any official can, but the R won't have a whistle in his or her mouth. The U or one of the U's should be the ones blowing a bad toss. From my experience, I'm usually more critical of my toss than my partners are. I usually have one a year I would have blown dead on myself but they let it go. By the time I can get my whistle in my mouth, play has started and I figure we might as well keep moving.

I prefer A. I get between the two players and put the ball in the air after I have it up with my arm extended. Thats that only way I can get a good toss!!!!

Ummm, so they are suppose to hit it on the way down....go figure!!!!

First of all, you're not allowed to say "us" here, not before the word "referee's" (sic).
Second, 90%? I've only had two tosses stolen in my entire career. The first one caught me off guard and we kicked it. I had the same team the next game, and he tried it again.

JR didn't make your point. JR said any official can call back a bad toss. You're calling back legal tosses because you don't think they look pretty enough.

I didn't say I have a problem with the U calling back a bad toss. I have a problem with the U calling back a legal toss because the jumpers mis-timed their jumps and it looked awkward.

I'm confused, Old School. You keep talking about the players "toughing" the ball before it reaches its highest point. I can't find that in rule 4. What is toughing the ball?

Negative. I'm calling it back because you threw it up too high and the jumpers missed it.

If it looks awkward, in your own words, and you tossed it too high. Beep! Retoss. Remember, it's not about us, it about the players. Let's start the game out on a correct note. Finally, and this doesn't bother me that much but I don't want to hear the coaches mouth of the team that didn't get possession, when he/she says. What's up with that toss? Both guys missed it! Come on, you guys are getting paid for this, throw it up right for goodness sake! Personally, I don't want to start my games off like that.

Peace

On the subject of the selection of the R.

If you can entertain the idea of a coin flip! Why can't you entertain the idea that with all things being equal, which is what I said, go back and read my posts if you don't believe me, but with all things being equal, why not who tosses it the best?

If you have a referee that has more experience then the partners, then all things are not equal.

Just a thought.......

You're half right. It's not about the refs. By stopping to retoss just because you think the toss was too high (no rule basis for this), you're making it about the refs.

Since you don't care about the rules, we won't be finishing the game together. Either you go, or I do. But, I don't have to worry about it, since....

Okay, I've had my fun. Have a day.

What?!?!?! You have to be kidding nO<strike>ld</strike> School. :rolleyes:

OS -- If you're really this worried about the toss, you need to get a life. Seriously.


Why not do up your house like this guy?

http://www.mypartypost.com/watchvide...s_Display_Ever

Ding, ding!!

No again, I'm making it about the game. The ref who has to retoss is the one that's sour, if he chooses to be. I know if my partner didn't think my toss was good enough, I would have no problem retossing it. But that's just me. I just don't understand why referees get so upset about their jump balls.

At a camp, I had a partner get real upset (not mad) at me because I blew back his toss. 3 days later he was still taking about me blowing back his toss. From his position, the toss was perfect. From U1, he stepped back when he tossed it and the ball went back with him, such that one of the jumpers swung and missed it. He swung laterally not straight up but laterally and missed the whole ball while the other jumper, standing on the other side tip it easily. With this referee, it was about him.
Peace

And finally, I would like to end this discussion with this. If you toss the ball too high and both jumpers jump and mis-time the tip, look awkward while swinging and missing it and therefore the ball falls back to the court. What does NFHS Rule 6.3.6 last sentence say?

I rest my case!

Peace

Finally.....

I hate to break it to you, but there ain't no 6.3.6. That isn't a rule; that's a case play number that doesn't exist.

Here's what we need re: jump balls:
1) #212 on p.28 of the <b>OFFICIALS MANUAL</b>.
2) Case book play 6.3.7 on p.47 of the case book.

Now, prove to us that you really, really are an official. Look those up and cite them for us.

I await your response.:)

I hate to ask this because maybe I don't want to know....but is old school...JMO?

Naw, he's posted under different names over at McGriffs- most of them starting with <b>Old</b>.

Well that's good anyway. Maybe JMO is still over there by himself clicking on all those spam links wondering where everybody is. Maybe the "JMO Philosophy of Intent" will catch on someday ...changing the game forever.

Well, I really hate to bust your bubble but there is a Rule 6.3 Art.6 of the NFHS rulebook.

Objection overruled!!!! Case is closed......

Unfortunately it's been overturned on appeal and remanded back based on the judge being removed from the case.

There is a Rule 6-3-6. But 6.3.6 refers to case plays, and there is no case play 6.3.6.

But let's go back to your original statements - you are changing your story by first saying you would blow the toss dead because both jumpers swung and missed the toss, now you are quoting the rule that the toss should be blown dead when the ball has not touched either jumper before hitting the floor. So, um, which are you saying?

You've admitted to being a player, but you have not yet admitted to being an official. You've admitted to being at a camp, but not whether it was as an official or player. Do you actually officiate, and at what levels?

For the life of me I cannot figure out why there has been 78 posts for this very simple question.

Personally, I use the two hand underhanded and practice it by standing beneath the basket and tossing it up through the net. The goal is to have it go up and down with minimal movement of the net. In my opinion it's a great way to practice.

Good question.

Anyway, fwiw, I've used both the one-handed and two-handed tosses. Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

....where is that damn squirrel picture when you need it...

JR, this case play is saying the same thing I'm saying. Retoss if the ball hits the floor untouched which is very likely to happen if both jumpers go up really hard for the tip and miss it, thus falling off balance from the effort of trying to tip the ball, and the ball drops to the floor. I have seen this many times. I will kill it if the toss is extremely high, and the jumpers have no chance of getting to it. Again, you can toss the ball to the ceiling and this is legal by the rules, but what I'm advocating here is a little common sense to go along with the rule. No foul has been committed, no violation has occur, no team has an advantage from retossing. So what's the big deal? The tossing official got a little egg on his face because he has to retoss. Who cares? Get over yourself, it is not about you.

Don't judge a book by it's cover....

http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/Animal/photo7.jpg

You can always count on the squirrel! <font size = -2>At least up to 2.</font>

Bump....

Still waiting....

All you have to do is write out the complete citations.

If it hits the floor untouched, then you have to retoss. If the players jump, then land, then tap the ball. Don't call it back. I won't be upset that you make me look bad, because you haven't. You've made yourself look like an idiot for not knowing the rules. I'll be upset that my partner is more interested in the game looking pretty than in enforcing the rules as written.

Absolutely correct. Always judge the content.

And so far, that's been easy.

I'm a little confused. You say "retoss if the ball hits the floor untouched" (I agree with this), but also that you will "kill it if the toss is extremely high" without waiting to see if the ball hits the floor untouched.

Also, you say that you "have seen this many times" but also that "90+ percent of the officials don't toss the ball hight enough" (this last quote might be off a little -- it's from a previous post that I didn't go back and find).

Please clarify.

Bob, I never said I would kill it without waiting to see if the ball hits the floor. You assume that I did this. 90% of the tosses that are too high and the jumpers extend themselve to get it, the ball ends up coming back down to the floor untouched.

When I toss the ball for men's, I toss the ball up too or above the square over the rim. All of my tosses are tipped at its highest point or while it is going up, but way above the rim. I always tell the jumpers right there, "way to get up baby!", "good jump" and yes there feet is up around my head.

It is my opinion that the ball needs to be toss slightly higher than the jumpers can jump which is at least to the top of the drawn out square over the rim on the backboard. Not to the 10' rim. If you're tossing to the 10' rim, you are not tossing the ball high enough for college men's basketball and for most high school varsity boys contests. It is my opinion, and I am teaching this to officials that it is a good toss when both jumpers extend themselves and hits the ball while it is up in the air way above the height of the rim, because most jumpers can get up way above the rim. This looks good, it looks the best, and both teams gets an equal opportuntiy to get the toss. Most tosses that I see are not high enough at this level. Most jumps I see that are too high and the jumpers extend themselves. The ball falls to the floor untouched. I take off for both of these. Officials when tossing needs to analyze briefly what type of jumpers they are going to have for the jump. If it's women, definitely don't need to toss it that high. Tossing it to the ten foot rim for women is too high. If it's men and they are both over 6'6, you need to get it up there.

Is it the end of the world if the toss doesn't go up high enough? No, play on.
Is it worth the discussion that we have had on this subject to the degree that we have had? Yes, because I have learned so much more by engaging you all on this subject. Discussion makes me a better and more informed official.

Don't kill the messenger....

You tell the jumpers <b>"good jump"</b> when they commit a violation?

Basic rule, OldFool. It's a violation for a jumper to hit the ball on the way <b>up</b>. Always has been. In every league in the world too.

You just get more ridiculous with every post. You don't even know the basic rules, Troll.

It seems as though 90% is OldSchool's favorite number. I think he's used that percentage in 90% of his posts on this subject...and for the record I disregard at least 90% of what he's said. :D

Most jumps are not tossed high enough. Do you agree? If this is the case, then why are you not calling this? I want to know how many times you have called a violation when the ball is touched before it reaches it highest point or the fact that the toss does not go up high enough? Think about that b4 you go an call someone a fool.

Again, don't kill the messenger...it is just a discussion

No. Some are not tossed high enough. But most? More than 50%? No, I don't agree.

Violations -- 2 this season. Both college games. One was a D2 team.
Bad tosses -- 0 this season. Haven't seen it yet.

You don't have a message. You just spout ridiculous statements.

"Do you know what he's talking about?"

"I have no idea!"

Aw geeze, where to start?

1) Every time that I have seen a ball tapped on the way <b>up</b>, I've called the violation. That's called <b>"stealing the tap"</b>. Oldest play in the book. There isn't an experienced official in the <b>world</b> that let's that one go. And you didn't even know that it <b>was</b> a violation until I posted it a few minutes ago.

2) A toss that does not go high enough is a re-toss. It isn't a violation and it never has been a violation.

Don't you even know what a <b>"violation"</b> is?:rolleyes:

I think that everyone who can learn from this thread has learned from this thread, and further discussion will only lead to the need for further moderating. To save myself some work (yes, I'm lazy), I'm closing the thread.