Double Personal

[budjones05]

Unable to determine which foul came first, me and my partner decided to just call a double foul. We were wondering if we should just call a jump ball or what? Can you all help me?

[Mark Dexter]

Can you give a few more details? Who fouled whom? What kind of fouls were you calling? Did you and your partner each have one foul, or did one of you have both?

[mick]

Originally Posted by budjones05

Unable to determine which foul came first, me and my partner decided to just call a double foul. We were wondering if we should just call a jump ball or what? Can you all help me?

The possession after a double personal foul is given to the team that had the ball and at the location of the ball, before the fouls occurred. That is called the point of interuption.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by budjones05

Unable to determine which foul came first, me and my partner decided to just call a double foul. We were wondering if we should just call a jump ball or what? Can you all help me?

I'm seeing two possibilities:

- you each observed a matchup where two opponents were gettin' at each other, or
- you each had a foul (each probably in your primary) and you got together to see which happened first, and thereby negating the 2nd unless warranted by rule

I think it was the 2nd possibility. I have no problems from a game mgmt POV to ding them both, if you can't determine which happened first.

Then use the POI. Back to the team that had the ball, or APA if there was no team control.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

- you each had a foul (each probably in your primary) and you got together to see which happened first, and thereby negating the 2nd unless warranted by rule

I think it was the 2nd possibility. I have no problems from a game mgmt POV to ding them both, if you can't determine which happened first.

Just to clarify, this would be a simultaneous foul.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Just to clarify, this would be a simultaneous foul.

And just to further clarify, in the case of either a double or a simultaneous foul, the game continues from the POI.

[budjones05]

If I may add, we called fouls on the same play but he called it on the team a and I called it on team b...He was watching my zone, but we talked about it and decided to give double personals

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by budjones05

If I may add, we called fouls on the same play but he called it on the team a and I called it on team b...He was watching my zone, but we talked about it and decided to give double personals

If you have a double whistle on a play in your primary, you should generally take the foul.

[SmokeEater]

Would shot clock reset on a double foul? I got two posts knocking against on each other for position. I tell them to take it easy,... one move and BANG they each lean into one another with their shoulders like a couple of football blockers. I got em both.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Lotto

If you have a double whistle on a play in your primary, you should generally take the foul.

Do you have a rule cite that says the other offiical's call is ignored if the foul is not in his area?


budjones05, if you both had whistles on the same play and you had fopuls on opponents, then it is a double foul. POI. Play ball.

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Would shot clock reset on a double foul?

No, play resumes at POI.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Do you have a rule cite that says the other offiical's call is ignored if the foul is not in his area?

budjones05, if you both had whistles on the same play and you had fopuls on opponents, then it is a double foul. POI. Play ball.

That's called cooperation between partners, working as a team, trusting your partner, whatever. Double whistles can happen, but only one official goes to report. At least, this is what we are taught here. In a charge/block situation, it is important that the official calling the charge does not "punch" immediately, when realizing that the other official has a foul on the defense. Then only the official with the primary responsibility punches, if necessary, and goes to report the foul. It takes a fraction of a second, if the officials have made a good pregame, to silently agree on who has the primary responsibility.

In some rare situations, it could be necessary that the "non-primary" official goes to confer with the "primary" official; for example, when calling a foul which happened before the contact called by the partner. Judging differently one and the same contact is "not a good thing", IMO.

Ciao

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

That's called cooperation between partners, working as a team, trusting your partner, whatever. Double whistles can happen, but only one official goes to report. At least, this is what we are taught here. In a charge/block situation, it is important that the official calling the charge does not "punch" immediately, when realizing that the other official has a foul on the defense. Then only the official with the primary responsibility punches, if necessary, and goes to report the foul. It takes a fraction of a second, if the officials have made a good pregame, to silently agree on who has the primary responsibility.

In some rare situations, it could be necessary that the "non-primary" official goes to confer with the "primary" official; for example, when calling a foul which happened before the contact called by the partner. Judging differently one and the same contact is "not a good thing", IMO.

Ciao

Where is here?

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Where is here?

Well, the nick should have told you.

Italy, Fiba rules. Which of course allow that two officials call different things on the same contact; but this doesn't mean that the two officials have done a good job.

Ciao

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Do you have a rule cite that says the other offiical's call is ignored if the foul is not in his area?


budjones05, if you both had whistles on the same play and you had fopuls on opponents, then it is a double foul. POI. Play ball.

I'm sorry that my post made you sad.

I also never said that the other official's call is ignored if the foul is not in his area.

What I was citing is not a rule (but of course you know that), but is rather the mechanics that we use here in NY girl's HS basketball. The same mechanics are used at the college level (NCAA women's), except when a play originates in one official's primary and moves towards the basket. In that case, the official in whose primary the play starts takes the play all the way to the basket and will generally take the foul.

Please note the use of the word generally in this post and in the previous post. If you and I have a double whistle and the foul is in your primary, I will generally let you take the foul. However, if I see something that I think you may have missed, I'll come and tell you and then let you make the final call. And if we have a double whistle with a fist and a palm, or with two preliminary signals that are different, then we'll get together and decide what we have (which might, in fact, be a double foul), at which point you will take whatever call to the table.

I hope you're less sad now.