Time-out Allowed or Not

[bogref_jed]

After a successful field goal by Team A in the last two minutes of the 4th or extra period:

A. Team B asked for a substitution
B. Team B and Team A made a substitution

Question: In the above both situation, Team A asked for a time-out. Under the latest rule changes of FIBA 1998-2002, is Team A allowed for a time-out?

Please take note that Charged Time-out opportunity begins "when the ball becomes dead and the game clock is stopped". Of course, no charged time-out is permitted for the scoring team, BUT in the above situations ball is dead and the game clock is stopped because of the substitution.

We would like to thank all co-officials who will give their time to enlighten this situation.

BOGref

[BktBallRef]

You guys let teams substitute after a basket?

[JM_Italia]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
You guys let teams substitute after a basket?

Under the new FIBA regulations a team can substitute players after having conceided a field goal in the last two minutes of the 4th period and in any overtime.

[JM_Italia]

Originally posted by bogref_jed
After a successful field goal by Team A in the last two minutes of the 4th or extra period:

A. Team B asked for a substitution
B. Team B and Team A made a substitution

Question: In the above both situation, Team A asked for a time-out. Under the latest rule changes of FIBA 1998-2002, is Team A allowed for a time-out?

Please take note that Charged Time-out opportunity begins "when the ball becomes dead and the game clock is stopped". Of course, no charged time-out is permitted for the scoring team, BUT in the above situations ball is dead and the game clock is stopped because of the substitution.

We would like to thank all co-officials who will give their time to enlighten this situation.

BOGref

In my opinion a time-out for the scoring team cannot take place, since article 27.2.2 of newest FIBA rules (2000) not only states "when the ball becomes dead and the game clock is stopped," but goes on stating: "and when the official had ended his communication with the scorer's table when reporting a foul or violation."

Since no such thing as a foul or violation has occured a time-out for the scoring team cannot take place. Further more the rules do not state an exception to time-out when a substitution is taking place (even when team A can also substitute).

Although this is a bit strange: I can't imagine team B being disadvantaged by this new time-out opportunity for team A (after a substitution of both teams)...

[Danvrapp]

Originally posted by JM_Italia
Under the new FIBA regulations a team can substitute players after having conceided a field goal in the last two minutes of the 4th period and in any overtime.

What's the reasoning behind this?!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JM_Italia

In my opinion a time-out for the scoring team cannot take place, since article 27.2.2 of newest FIBA rules (2000) not only states "when the ball becomes dead and the game clock is stopped," but goes on stating: "and when the official had ended his communication with the scorer's table when reporting a foul or violation."

Since no such thing as a foul or violation has occured a time-out for the scoring team cannot take place.

Ok, here's what I'm hearing. . .

1) Final 2 minutes of regulation or OT period;
2) Made basket (so ball is dead);
3) No foul or violation;
4) Subs allowed;
5) But no time-out b/c clock is not stopped?

Is that right? They can make substitutions without the clock being stopped? Or do they stop the clock after every made basket like the last minute of NCAA games? What a strange thread.

Chuck

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Danvrapp

What's the reasoning behind this?!

Reason? Reason? You expect reasoning to be involved in FEEBLE rulesmaking? Dream on.

[SeanWorrall]

The clock stops after a basket in the last 2 minutes of the 4th and subsequent periods.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by SeanWorrall
The clock stops after a basket in the last 2 minutes of the 4th and subsequent periods.

...and you can sub but not get a timeout?

[hoopsrefBC]

Lets see if I can straighten this out a little. First off subs in the last 2 minutes of game/overtime can be brought into the game after a basket, when the ball is dead and the team that was just scored on had a sub(s) waiting at the bench, before the ball was shot. If the team that was just scored upon subs, the other team may.

A team which has just been scored against may have a timeout as long as the ball is dead, and "the request for the timeout was made to the scorekeeper before the shot was released", there is an exception but I won't go into it.

The head or assistant coach calls all timeouts in FIBA by asking the scorekeeper for one. No timeout can be called by a coach or player while the clock is running!

ps..... by the way although I agree that some of the rules may be unique in their writings remember that these rules are the standardized set around the world, which are used at World Championships and Olympics.

ppss...interesting of note.... FIBA is now using NCAA 3 - person mechanics (not rules) at all high level competitions.....also the NCAA and NBA are experimenting with FIBA rules this season.

have fun, ( A Canadian, who works NCAA rules!!)


[Edited by hoopsrefBC on Sep 21st, 2001 at 01:30 PM]

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by hoopsrefBC
Lets see if I can straighten this out a little. First off subs in the last 2 minutes of game/overtime can be brought into the game after a basket, when the ball is dead and the team that was just scored on had a sub(s) waiting at the bench, before the ball was shot. If the team that was just scored upon subs, the other team may.

A team which has just been scored against may have a timeout as long as the ball is dead, and "the request for the timeout was made to the scorekeeper before the shot was released", there is an exception but I won't go into it.

The head or assistant coach calls all timeouts in FIBA by asking the scorekeeper for one. No timeout can be called by a coach or player while the clock is running!

ps..... by the way although I agree that some of the rules may be unique in their writings remember that these rules are the standardized set around the world, which are used at World Championships and Olympics.

ppss...interesting of note.... FIBA is now using NCAA 3 - person mechanics (not rules) at all high level competitions.....also the NCAA and NBA are experimenting with FIBA rules this season.

have fun, ( A Canadian, who works NCAA rules!!)


[Edited by hoopsrefBC on Sep 21st, 2001 at 01:30 PM]

Two comments: first of all, the "World Championships" are held in the two North American cities in which the two teams that make the NBA finals are located, not anywhere else; second, could you indicate which FIBA (notice I didn't say FEEBLE this time) rules are being looked at by the NBA?

Thanks.

[Peter Devana]

We used to say the same thing about theNHL re: where the real world championships are held but that changed and so it will with Basketball.
Pistol
Iam Canadian- nuff said

[hoopsrefBC]

Hey Mark

I like how you said, "North American cities" :-)
and
the World Chanpionships are played by teams that represent their countries.
The NBA championship are played by two teams from cities..

oh, did i mention....players in the world championships play for pride of there nation instead of $$$$$$.


Lets see this year the NBA has decided to allow zones, the rules of FIBA have allowed this for years. Secondly, the intoduction of no-cylinder is new for the NBA. In play around the world a shot may be rebounded as soon as the ball has hit the ring. This may seem like a bad move, but trust me from someone who refs both the "is it in the cylinder" question is nice to get away from.

Scott

[Peter Devana]

When the Raptors win the NBA championship what American city will they represent???? Remember the Blue Jays. Wait for it.
Pistol

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by hoopsrefBC
Hey Mark

I like how you said, "North American cities" :-)

I consider Canada a suburb of the U.S.

the World Chanpionships are played by teams that represent their countries.
The NBA championship are played by two teams from cities..

oh, did i mention....players in the world championships play for pride of there nation instead of $$$$$$.

Yeah, that's why it's not exciting, and that's why all the money in Vegas in on the NBA championship, which really is a World's Championship, since it is the only championship of that exact game with those exact rules played. At least, that's their rationalization of calling their title "World". The trophy actually says "NBA World Champions."

Lets see this year the NBA has decided to allow zones, the rules of FIBA have allowed this for years.

But not nearly as long as U.S. college and high school. Besides, the NBA is adopting a modified zone, not allowing all types of zones. There's no way you could convince me they did it to be more like FEEBLE, although I hear Shaq is going to get a trapezoid tattooed on his head.

Secondly, the intoduction of no-cylinder is new for the NBA. In play around the world a shot may be rebounded as soon as the ball has hit the ring. This may seem like a bad move, but trust me from someone who refs both the "is it in the cylinder" question is nice to get away from.

Scott

You're half right , it is a bad move. If the NBA allows offensive players to put their hands in the cylinder to control a missed shot, or defensive players to do the same to prevent a shot that hit the rim and is still in the cylinder, only rougher play will result. The rule works as it is. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And Scott - I do realize and respect the fact that Dr. Naismith was born a Canadian. Sorry you got the Grizzlies in trade.